Should Estes make scale rockets that are not American (or the v2)

[Antares JS]

"Fourth failure, serial 7L
November 23, 1972: serial number 7L – regular Soyuz 7K-LOK (Soyuz 7K-LOK No.1) and dummy LK module-spacecraft for Moon flyby

The start and lift-off went well. At T+90 seconds, a programmed shutdown of the core propulsion system (the six center engines) was performed to reduce structural stress on the booster. Because of excessive dynamic loads caused by a hydraulic shock wave when the six engines were shut down abruptly, lines for feeding fuel and oxidizer to the core propulsion system burst and a fire started in the boattail of the booster; in addition, the #4 engine exploded. The first stage broke up starting at T+107 seconds and all telemetry data ceased at T+110 seconds. The launch escape system activated and pulled the Soyuz 7K-LOK to safety. The upper stages were ejected from the stack and crashed into the steppe. An investigation revealed that the abrupt shutdown of the engines led to fluctuations in the fluid columns of the feeder pipes, which ruptured and spilled fuel and oxidizer onto the shut down, but still hot, engines. A failure of the #4 engine turbopump was also suspected. It was believed that the launch could have been salvaged had ground controllers sent a manual command to jettison the first stage and begin second stage burn early as the stage failed only 15 seconds before it was due to separate at T+125 seconds and it had reached the nominal burn time of 110 seconds according to the cyclogram.[58][59][60]"

When I read that, it screams to me, "worked pretty well"

Yup, exactly. During the last flight, the KORD worked as designed all the way up until an unexpected water hammer effect trashed the first stage plumbing. The failure was not a problem with the control system. This is also an issue that would have been caught had the Soviet engineers been able to build test stands to do full-duration test fires of each stage.

 

[James Duffy]

I feel Estes is missing the boat by not re-issuing classic kits,

Um, Estes does issue a bunch of classic kits. They just don't do it all at once, nor should they.

 

[SolarYellow]

It can be very difficult to sand small, detail-heavy parts smooth. Big parts are easy.

It still surprises me how many discussions about 3D printing start and finish in a bubble in which SLA printing doesn't seem to exist.

On the other hand, I can see where the washing and curing processes would make SLA printing absolutely insane as a volume production strategy.

The people who think 3D printing is ever going to replace hard-tooled manufacturing at scale don't, IMO, understand either one to any significant degree.

 

[OverTheTop]

I'm not going to comment on whether a V-2 "should" be made, as that would require closing a business case. Rather, assuming that business case works out, I will say there is no reason why it shouldn't be made. Its extreme historical significance makes it a subject of interest for many modellers. It's the grandfather of many of the rockets from the 1960's golden age that we know and love. If you can't abide the German flavor of it, use a paint scheme from the ones that were launched in White Sands after the war.

We did the full-scale V2 as a celebration of man's first object into space. Paint was basic white, with a graphic.

 

[techrat]

You realize that Von Braun back in the late 40's recommended creating a space station in orbit, to shoot nuclear capable rockets at the USSR?

There are a bunch of Youtube videos that the Air Force wanted a space battleship that could propel itself by dropping nuclear bombs out the back, and then this thing could visit other planets in the solar system. And when it wasn't doing that, it could hang around in orbit to drop bombs on any country we didn't like. And this was proposed in the 1960's and was apparently feasible given the current technology, but it would have cost more than the entire defense budget. Just google "Orion Space Battleship"

And for everyone revisiting ancient history because they object to a rocket with German markings on it...., well, what country doesn't have something in their history that's bad? You can wave the American Flag all you want, but this country's history has genocide against native Americans *AND* slavery to contend with. Imagine if someone used those as fodder to claim they can't buy a rocket because of those issues. Not that too many rockets were used back then except that our national anthem has "the rocket's red glare" right in the lyrics.

 

[SolarYellow]

"And the rockets' red glare, E12s bursting in air..."

 

[Ez2cDave]

Um, Estes does issue a bunch of classic kits. They just don't do it all at once, nor should they.

Estes will only re-issue "classic kits", if they have a plastic nose cone shaped like the original balsa ones, if so equipped.

Dave F.

 

[shockie]

How late in the 40s? Depending on the timeframe, it could have been during the American nuclear monopoly. Even once their gadget went up they still lacked the material and technical capacity to credibly deliver one.

The 1st USSR atomic bomb was 1949 while Von Braun suggested an orbiting icbm battleship in 1950. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.2968/063004019

i edited my original post to say 1950.

 

[rharshberger]

You are 100% correct. I flipped the dialog, but yes, they were ICBM's first and human spaceflight second. My mistake is what I wrote, not what was actually in my brain. . .

Sandy.

Been there done that!

 

[Ez2cDave]

I watched a video about a Titan missile and the narrator correctly mentioned that the ICBM's were basically space rockets with a warhead on top. While that is a huge oversimplification. . . Mercury Redstone, Gemini Titan. . . probably tons of others I am unaware of.

As a child of the Space Shuttle generation, I had never really thought about that.

Personally, I think models are models and if they are missiles, rockets, space vehicles etc., they are a valid thing to consider producing. I wouldn't necessarily be choosing Russian or North Korean option as a first choice to produce at this stage, but I think many of the historical rockets/missiles would be good subjects. They might be very expensive for a limited market and some people would fine certain options offensive.

I think it is worth considering. Maybe make a series of 2-3 a year called 'historical series' (I'm an engineer, not a marketer. . . ) and present the models with some historical background info in the catalog and on the box.

Sandy.

Up until the SATURN V, U.S. Astronauts flew on "de-militarized" military rockets ( SATURN-1B was a cluster of Redstones. )

Dave F.

 

[Scud-B]

It still surprises me how many discussions about 3D printing start and finish in a bubble in which SLA printing doesn't seem to exist.

On the other hand, I can see where the washing and curing processes would make SLA printing absolutely insane as a volume production strategy.

The people who think 3D printing is ever going to replace hard-tooled manufacturing at scale don't, IMO, understand either one to any significant degree.

I've bought SLA parts before, for other hobbies, but I bought the 3D printer that satisfied my needs more broadly. I think this is where most people are at, if space, money, time, etc, allow for only one printer then compromises have to be made.

I think you're correct about manufacturing though, at least until there are leaps and bounds made in resolution and layer adhesion in 3D printing. There are a lot of applications where 3D printing is really the winning move, but that's not making thousands of copies of the same part.

 

[tsmith1315]

I interpreted it as taking a jab of wartime German iconography

Exactly what it was. Hogan’s Heroes.

 

[PDawg]

Estes isn’t without sin. For a start there’s The Mars Leaper…

The best part is the MSRP was $24.99.

 

[PDawg]

Estes should update that horrid 4 AA launch contrller, I'm not the only one who abandoned the Hobby after being embarrassed more than once at a failed launch, the kids who laughed at me didn't get into the hobby either. I recently tried one again with new batteries, barely launched 4 before it stopped working. I now use a Pro version with 6 batteries or Wick.

 

[Rob Campbell]

Estes should update that horrid 4 AA launch contrller, I'm not the only one who abandoned the Hobby after being embarrassed more than once at a failed launch, the kids who laughed at me didn't get into the hobby either. I recently tried one again with new batteries, barely launched 4 before it stopped working. I now use a Pro version with 6 batteries or Wick.

As a kid, I had the old Astron launch controller. That Solar Launch Controller was craptacular. And, I preferred the old blue diamond box igniters to the current ones. I'm old school.

 

[jmasterj]

It still surprises me how many discussions about 3D printing start and finish in a bubble in which SLA printing doesn't seem to exist.

*Shrug* It's not available to me nor have I seen small nor large manufacturers sell parts made that way, so its existence doesn't stay on my mind.

 

[bad_idea]

SATURN-1B was a cluster of Redstones.

The Saturn 1B first stage used a cluster of eight tanks made on Redstone tooling surrounding a tank made on Jupiter tooling but was not a cluster of Redstone missiles.

 

[jbsommerfeldt]

“So let me get this straight. This capsule you want me to ride in. I have nothing between my ass and the motor but a piece a tinfoil. And the capsule is on top of a bomb. Is that what your asking me to do?”

I don’t know which astronaut said that and maybe its folklore. But I would love to have been a fly on that wall.

 

[Jimmy Wilson]

Um, Estes does issue a bunch of classic kits. They just don't do it all at once, nor should they.

I haven't seen a lot of the older kits. The upscale Orbital Transport, and the Mars Snooper are two that come to mind. I'm not up to speed on every kit they sell, but there could be a market for the Pershing Missiles, Honest Johns, Jayhawk, Titan III and other kits that bring a fortune on the secondary market. I'm not into the easy to build or RTF variety kits.