Can HPR survive with $100 J motors?

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I expanded my post that you quoted to clarify my thought. L2 certainly demonstrates a higher level of understanding of rocket construction and higher thrust motors, but it doesn't address some knowledge needed to safely mix and cast your own motors.
Tripoli does not cover the mix and cast process, only the knowledge needed to launch safely. L2 is an easy entry point to show the person understands the regulations and flight safety, and can use electronics for deployment. It's not an excessive barrier to someone wishing to launch L1 research motors. It's also for the safety of everyone else at the launch to know that the Research motor flyer has that extra level of knowledge and dedication.
 
Before reloads, all J motors were over $100. Reloads were introduced in 1990. Starting with the J100 (like J90 reload) at $100. Vulcan Js were $110 and Aerotech full Js were $130. Ks started at $200 and 98 mm Ms were $1000. The Vulcan L750 was $375.
 
I see a near future where there are ALOT of reseach motors being sold at "breakeven prices" at Tripoli launches......
 
I expanded my post that you quoted to clarify my thought. L2 certainly demonstrates a higher level of understanding of rocket construction and higher thrust motors, but it doesn't address some knowledge needed to safely mix and cast your own motors.

This. I went over the study guide test recently, and there were only a handful of questions that could be relevant to EX motors, most of which I could reasonably guess the answers to. Not even scratching the surface of knowledge required to safely design and construct an actual EX motor.

On the other hand, it sure would be nice to be able to qualify to swap over to a 10-second delay grain (designed by AT and listed on the packaging but never certified or sold) on an AT F24 motor in my 24/40 case without spending the many hundreds of dollars to build and launch an L2 rocket. Or to pour an epoxy plug in the top of a -0 Estes motor for use in a dual deploy rocket.
 
I expanded my post that you quoted to clarify my thought. L2 certainly demonstrates a higher level of understanding of rocket construction and higher thrust motors, but it doesn't address some knowledge needed to safely mix and cast your own motors.
It's really important to understand that Tripoli does not teach or regulate motor making. We have always held that position. Because of the potential for liability that comes with either of those activities we can have nothing to do with them. We only set rules that cover the motors that are used when at our launches.
 
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Put all together, including the value of your time, EX doesn't save much vs commercial motors. It is a heck of a lot of fun, and really deep learning in many ways.

When I have to drive 2+ or 8+ hours each way ($gas) and get a motel for $300/night, cost of reloads is negligible. Well, not entirely.

It's a hobby, supposed to be fun, not doing it for a living, don't need to save $10. ****, a can of spray paint is $10 now.
 
FYI, Ausrocketry has 54mm 3G CTI J motors listed at $189. There may have been a price increase since that web page update.

Our LHS has a pair of Estes D motors for $34.
 
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Before reloads, all J motors were over $100. Reloads were introduced in 1990. Starting with the J100 (like J90 reload) at $100. Vulcan Js were $110 and Aerotech full Js were $130. Ks started at $200 and 98 mm Ms were $1000. The Vulcan L750 was $375.

^ this..... in 1986 when I joined Tripoli my paycheck was aprox 105.00 and a J motor was 100-120 .... Now, unfortunately income has not kept up with inflation and my 550 bucks is less in these days of 4.00 gal gas, 5.00 eggs, etc - BUT a 100.00 J motor is STILL a lesser percentage of a weeks pay than in 1986.

As for the 45.00 G motor. small motor reloads are out of hand, WAY more $ per n-sec ..... 1986 G motors were 15-18 bucks. in the 90s they were 6.00.
Understanding that things like nozzles, etc are costly and cost as much for an E-F-G as for an H-I-J (more or less ).... a step back to reusable graphite nozzles would make relads for small motors less ' price skewed'
 
I for one have already cut back. I am building smaller rockets that are lighter and will go just as high as the heavy kits I used to fly. Now, I am getting back into motor making.
We must be twins! 😆

I was going to suggest motor making earlier for those who are willing to make the initial investments and learn in order to launch a lot of bigger motors more economically.

While I've learned and made some grains once, it was many years ago and so I recently picked this up...
20230125_201833.jpg
 
Here are AeroTech prices from 1984. G80 and J motor prices haven't come close to keeping up with inflation.
View attachment 559472
Thanks for this! I've often lectured others on inflation and how the prices they're complaining about are actually less than the past when you factor in inflation and salaries, but I wasn't aware of prices being so high in the past.

Was it advances in technology and manufacturing that kept the prices down?
 
I always considered the G80 as the gateway drug to HPR.

John

Literally, this was my first motor; 1990, Hobbytown USA, Aurora, IL

Of course my Aerotech Mustang's first flight was on that G80 as well.....I had no idea how high "3300 feet" was but at the time, it was literally like a drug that changed my entire life.
 
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Put all together, including the value of your time, EX doesn't save much vs commercial motors. It is a heck of a lot of fun, and really deep learning in many ways.

When I have to drive 2+ or 8+ hours each way ($gas) and get a motel for $300/night, cost of reloads is negligible. Well, not entirely.

It's a hobby, supposed to be fun, not doing it for a living, don't need to save $10. ****, a can of spray paint is $10 now.
Ex starts to make sense at N class and above in terms of price. Certainly for an O motor it makes sense. It also makes sense for volume of M or smaller.
 
The recent increase is the one that really caught my eye. I have had periods where I didn't fly at all (University), or just a J motor once a year. I am getting close to max cost with a young family and while my income is fair, we have to be pretty careful these days. $240 cdn for a K550 just isn't going to happen.

I have a huge stock of model and enough mid/hp to last a bit, but definitely not going to be able to restock under these conditions.

So no, my HPR probably won't survive, but my models will and I will certainly attend launches to watch other people's money burn 😁
 
Thanks for this! I've often lectured others on inflation and how the prices they're complaining about are actually less than the past when you factor in inflation and salaries, but I wasn't aware of prices being so high in the past.

Was it advances in technology and manufacturing that kept the prices down?
Yes, and other factors (see my previous response).
 
I buy in bulk during the sales and buy my motors for the year pretty much. I may not fly as many Ms this year… but we will see. I have a box full of 38mm Js and 54mm Js and Ks that I bought in bulk last year. I enjoy flying those the most. Hobbies can be expensive. Enjoying life in the time we have is priceless.
 
Thanks for this! I've often lectured others on inflation and how the prices they're complaining about are actually less than the past when you factor in inflation and salaries, but I wasn't aware of prices being so high in the past.

Was it advances in technology and manufacturing that kept the prices down?
Of course, actually reduced the prices by quite a bit. The manufacturers have kept up with inflation and exceeded it since 2001 though. That is not taking into consideration how much chemicals have gone up supposedly. I don't blame the manufacturers for charging what they are for motors. It is just getting to be one heck of an expensive hobby to get into. You spend $150.00 on a reload and that $150.00 is literally burnt up in a few seconds.
If us guys that were in the hobby for years feel the way we do about the cost of motors now, think about someone interested in getting into the hobby after looking at the motor prices might feel about it.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

2001 AT price list.jpgimg007.jpg
 
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