ICEs and EVs

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I've heard a few racing rotaries run (my regular mechanic, Jerry Wright, has built racing engines for years, including at least one turn at LeMans). Loud indeed.

Jerry is why I still drive Mazdas long after we had to trade off the Rx-4 wagon for an MPV (not enough seats in the wagon for the family). I don't know what I'm going to do after he retires if I'm not full EV by then. I expect he will soon as he's already in his mid-70s. The Kia Soul EV in the driveway is the first non-Mazda I've owned in a very long time, though we do have a hybrid Ford Maverick on order. Heaven only knows if we'll get it as Ford allowed more than twice as many hybrid Mavericks to be ordered in the week orders were open in September 2022 than they say they can build in this model year......

Have we strayed far enough off topic @Funkworks ?
 
BEC said:
Have we strayed far enough off topic @Funkworks ?
Click to expand...
Let me see now 🧐:
- No one seems to be acting like a ... I forget the word 🤔.
- There's talk of ICEs or EVs or both in each post.
I don't think so but when I have time, I can still check once in a while to try saving trouble for moderators.
 
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I am not sure if a Wankle/rotary can run on diesel. To stay green pure any range extender ice must run on biodiesel. (Corn ethanol does not meet the green fuel threshold).
 
jderimig said:
I am not sure if a Wankle/rotary can run on diesel. To stay green pure any range extender ice must run on biodiesel. (Corn ethanol does not meet the green fuel threshold).
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Rotary engines can run on gas, diesel or natural gas.
Diesel has the most power, gas is the most efficient, NG is the greenest
The MX-30 battery has a 100 mile range.
Americans drive an average of 39 miles a day.
Recharge overnight, good to go in the morning.
So the range extender would only come into play on long trips.
I don't see a problem with using gas for this purpose.
Burns far less gas than a hybrid, I would imagine, since the motor is used to recharge the battery, not directly propel the vehicle.
And gas is readily available.
 
kuririn said:
Rotary engines can run on gas, diesel or natural gas.
Diesel has the most power, gas is the most efficient, NG is the greenest
The MX-30 battery has a 100 mile range.
Americans drive an average of 39 miles a day.
Recharge overnight, good to go in the morning.
So the range extender would only come into play on long trips.
I don't see a problem with using gas for this purpose.
Burns far less gas than a hybrid, I would imagine, since the motor is used to recharge the battery, not directly propel the vehicle.
And gas is readily available.
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Given that electricity is still largely fossil fueled, running the range extender full time on biodiesel would be the greenest and use the battery only when you run out of fuel.

But hybrids are the way to go. Several articles on how car manufactures are making a big mistake on long range big battery EV when a smaller battery and range extender would make EV's much more affordable and adopted.
 
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jderimig said:
Given that electricity is still largely fossil fueled, running the range extender full time on biodiesel would be the greenest and use the battery only when you run out of fuel.
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The range extender doesn't directly propel the vehicle, it revs at a constant rpm to keep the battery recharged. You would still be using the battery 100% of the time to propel the vehicle.

So in that case wouldn't it make more sense to have an ICE running 100% on biodiesel and eliminate the heavy battery pack and motor entirely?


60% of US electrical production is from fossil fuels. And that number is diminishing every year.
So it depends on the area where you live and how your local electric power plant is fueled. If it's nuclear, hydro, solar, wind, geothermal or battery then it's 0% fossil fuel.
In 25 to 30 years zero carbon electrical production will most likely be 90+% worldwide.
I sincerely hope the US doesn't lag behind China, Europe and the rest of the world.
 
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jderimig said:
Given that electricity is still largely fossil fueled, running the range extender full time on biodiesel would be the greenest and use the battery only when you run out of fuel.

But hybrids are the way to go. Several articles on how car manufactures are making a big mistake on long range big battery EV when a smaller battery and range extender would make EV's much more affordable and adopted.
Click to expand...
I went with a hybrid minivan. Not only was it the best choice for my family (and rockets...), it also was pretty sound for the environment.
 
kuririn said:
So in that case wouldn't it make more sense to have an ICE running 100% on biodiesel and eliminate the heavy battery pack and motor entirely?
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A battery can be used at least to recoup braking/kinetic energy. But to answer the question as to what emits less FF overall (considering production), I think it depends on what kind of battery, what size, how long it lasts, how it's charged, yearly mileage, what biofuel is used, where it's from, what is required to produce it, and probably more. Not easy to find all that data.
 
kuririn said:
The range extender doesn't directly propel the vehicle, it revs at a constant rpm to keep the battery recharged. You would still be using the battery 100% of the time to propel the vehicle.

So in that case wouldn't it make more sense to have an ICE running 100% on biodiesel and eliminate the heavy battery pack and motor entirely?
Click to expand...
My opinion is the most sense is an moderate range pure BEV, less than 100 mile range, smaller battery, light vehicle, inexpensive, charge at home, used mostly for groceries and running around locally. Then have an ICE SUV that is infrequently used, and will last a lifetime, for long trips, hauling etc.
 
jderimig said:
My opinion is the most sense is an moderate range pure BEV, less than 100 mile range, smaller battery, light vehicle, inexpensive, charge at home, used mostly for groceries and running around locally. Then have an ICE SUV that is infrequently used, and will last a lifetime, for long trips, hauling etc.
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That's basically what we do. Older BEV for daily/commute and we've got the Mini for longer trips. We can borrow trucks and trailers at work, so having a large personal vehicle hasn't made sense for us. I think to save more money most people could get away with renting a truck whenever they need to haul something (obviously very dependent on indvidual's needs), I always rented a truck for a day from Uhaul whenever I needed it before I was able to just snag one at work.
 
Funkworks said:
A battery can be used at least to recoup braking/kinetic energy. But to answer the question as to what emits less FF overall (considering production), I think it depends on what kind of battery, what size, how long it lasts, how it's charged, yearly mileage, what biofuel is used, where it's from, what is required to produce it, and probably more. Not easy to find all that data.
Click to expand...
And a biodiesel burning ICE would still have higher maintenance costs than an EV.
Other considerations would be cost per mile of biodiesel vs. electric and availability of biodiesel at fueling stations.
 
kuririn said:
And a biodiesel burning ICE would still have higher maintenance costs than an EV.
Other considerations would be cost per mile of biodiesel vs. electric and availability of biodiesel at fueling stations.
Click to expand...
I think so. Recent electrical systems make them look unnecessarily complex.
 
kuririn said:
And a biodiesel burning ICE would still have higher maintenance costs than an EV.
Other considerations would be cost per mile of biodiesel vs. electric and availability of biodiesel at fueling stations.
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Problem with diesel is the NOx and particulate emissions. Once you put on all the mitigation equipment and consumables you have destroyed the value of the diesel process and you still dirty our air. Its much better for United States air quality to use BEV's and instead destroy Asia's and Africa's environment for the battery minerals.
 
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jderimig said:
Problem with diesel is the NOx and particulate emissions. Once you put on all the mitigation equipment and consumables you have destroyed the value of the diesel process and you still dirty our air. Its much better for United States air quality to use BEV's and instead destroy Asia's and Africa's environment for the battery minerals.
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Eh, an awful lot of the commercial biodiesel is sourced from palm oil, which is grown on plantations on what used to be tropical rain forest. So that's not ideal for global CO2 either. The locally brewed stuff from waste cooking oil tends to be more expensive if you can even find it. When we had a diesel Golf, we used to get ours from a super-sketchy looking pump in front of what could have been a meth lab. Great fuel, though.

The Tier 4 emissions (when they brought in the DEF) for diesels are actually fairly close to gasoline cars. The NOx limits are nearly identical, and the latest diesel emissions standards are pretty tight. Traditional diesel emissions were a tradeoff. If you burned hotter, you got less particulates but more NOx. Burning cooler is less NOx and more particulate. With the DEF, they burn hot (ie efficiently) to clear out particulates and then use the DEF to knock out the NOx. It also brought the fuel efficiency back up to more or less the best efficiency available with electronic engines. You do burn some DEF, so it's a little more expensive to run.
 
jderimig said:
Problem with diesel is the NOx and particulate emissions. Once you put on all the mitigation equipment and consumables you have destroyed the value of the diesel process and you still dirty our air. Its much better for United States air quality to use BEV's and instead destroy Asia's and Africa's environment for the battery minerals.
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The minerals for batteries are located worldwide. A large acreage of land in Canada was recently bought for the purpose of possible lithium extraction. The US at one time was the worlds' leader in production of lithium. Much of that came from the Salton Sea in California and the Great Salt Lake in Utah. The price of lithium then made mining it unprofitable. Now companies are restarting lithium extraction there. No different than the oil companies building thousands of oil rigs over the past hundred years across the US. Money talks.
And biodiesel blended fuels can significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions compared to pure petroleum diesel. So why not a mix of different green fuels and EVs on the path to decarbonization? Doesn't have to be one solution only.
 
Mining is a 2-way street: those who want to buy and those who want to sell.
(3-way if you count those who watch and analyse whether good or bad)

And the the largest lithium reserves are in South America and Australia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium
 
Cape Byron said:
Lexus EV prototype with 'fake' manual gearbox...

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a...4_BwNJRhSIT5xVMXJB1zq0akF2W8_O7Ou7ijQzq6AWHAU
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Good cotton pickin‘ grief!

I prefer manual transmissions and am happy to say that my wife and I managed to pass the skill of driving a stick on to four of our five kids. But to fake one? Come on! When there is no need to shift gears there is no need for this either, and it certainly won’t make me like driving my EV any more than I do (which is quite a bit, lack of a stick shift notwithstanding).

That said, our Soul EV is a 2016, and it has the equivalent of a console selector stick for an automatic. I do like having a physical lever to move, even if I just put it in “R” or ”B”. I don’t know how I’m going to take to the little twisty dials that are in more recent cars. I’ll get used to it, I expect…..

But every now and then, when I’m starting to let the regen kick in, I find my left foot going for the clutch :). And of course the other car in the driveway is a six-speed manual.
 
KC3KNM said:
There's a charger at the top of Killington I use sometimes. Only charge to 65-70% and regen back down. Doesn't really do much as I have to climb it first but it's fun to go down a hill and have more battery than you did at the top. :)
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There is a take out pizza place near me with a free charger behind it. We often will order a pizza and eat it while parked at the charger listening to an audio book. It's fun to eat a pizza and have more battery than you did before! :)

I once joked that I could rely on free chargers and never pay for electricity for my car. So ... A few weeks ago, because of the holidays, we had a week or two without any appointments. And I am still working from home. So, I played around and did not use my car's charger at home for a little over a week. Instead, I shopped at a grocery store that had a free charger and we ate a couple of times at restaurants with free chargers. After about 10 days the car still had close to a full charge.
 
I'm guessing that the reason GM went with a hybrid Vette instead of a full EV is that they felt it necessary to placate the hard core Vette owners. A full EV with a motor at each wheel would blow the doors off any comparable ICE.
I would like to see GM come up with a Vette that is a Plaid beater.
 
kuririn said:
I'm guessing that the reason GM went with a hybrid Vette instead of a full EV is that they felt it necessary to placate the hard core Vette owners. A full EV with a motor at each wheel would blow the doors off any comparable ICE.
I would like to see GM come up with a Vette that is a Plaid beater.
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Probably something like that. I also would have preferred to see a 100% electric Corvette, but I'd still go with a Plaid myself. I'm more of a German car fan, and using Hyundai as bridge to get a Tesla in 5-10 years.
 
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kuririn said:
I'm guessing that the reason GM went with a hybrid Vette instead of a full EV is that they felt it necessary to placate the hard core Vette owners. A full EV with a motor at each wheel would blow the doors off any comparable ICE.
I would like to see GM come up with a Vette that is a Plaid beater.
Click to expand...
It would be easy to beat the Plaid in terms of looks and excitement. The Plaid is very good with straight line acceleration, how does it do in terms of handling?
If there was enough demand maybe they could come up with 3 versions- full ICE, full EV, hybrid.
My Jeep will beat both of them if I get to choose the road. My other little car is much faster than I need on the highway.
 
kuririn said:
I'm guessing that the reason GM went with a hybrid Vette instead of a full EV is that they felt it necessary to placate the hard core Vette owners. A full EV with a motor at each wheel would blow the doors off any comparable ICE.
I would like to see GM come up with a Vette that is a Plaid beater.
Click to expand...
How much further than a Plaid can you go without breaking the laws of physics with your tires? At some point all that power has to go through rubber to the road. I honestly don't know the answer, I'm not trying to pick holes.
 

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