AeroTech Open Thread

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
And? They operate this thread as a courtesy, they’re not beholden to our opinions or whims.
Presumably, Aerotech might want to increase their income. More items sold = More income . . . Making it easier for Hobby Shops to acquire Aerotech products, without incurring substantial financial burden, increases public exposure and ease of access . . . This equals more income, both for the Shops & Aerotech.

Dave F.
 
Last edited:
Given the cost of HPR kits, motors, and hardware, that is a lot of financial outlay for a shop . . . Unless, of course, Aerotech would be willing to ship everything to hobby shops on a consignment basis and get paid, as items sell.

Dave F.
Explain to all of us how that would be even remotely possible.
 
No crickets, no one asked until you did. Are you willing to finance such a consignment arrangement?
Sure, just make me the CEO of Aerotech - LOL !

Seriously, easier access for hobby shops would increase availability to the rocketry public, without us having to pay exorbitant shipping ( especially HAZMAT ), and increase the volume of sales by virtue of the convenience of local accessibility of kits, parts, & motors.

Using Estes as an example . . . If an online retailer can sell Estes products at 30% - 40% off MSRP and still make money, that tells me that the MSRP is a pretty high mark-up over whatever the retailer is actually paying for Estes products. Let's not forget that Estes is also happy with its profit margin, too.

So, if Estes has a hypothetical rocket that has an MSRP of $50.00 and the retailer sells it at a 30% discount ( $35.00 ) and makes a decent profit ( probably $10-$12 / unit ), obviously, the cost to Estes is substantially less that the amount charged to a discount retailer, since Estes also makes an acceptable profit. If I had to make a guess, I would guesstimate that Estes own cost is right around 20%-25% of MSRP.

Not to say that is a bad thing . . . Profit occurs at every level ( Manufacturing, Distribution, Retail ),

Dave F.
 
Last edited:
Explain to all of us how that would be even remotely possible.
Basically, the stores would be contracted to be retail outlets for Aerotech products. They would not be buying products, hoping to sell them. They would be stocked by Aerotech. Obviously, Aerotech would determine the inventory, based on local demand of each store.

Dave F.
 
It was, but its regulation was largely unknown or ignored.
Yes, that is what I observed in those days as well. It was also available at PGI conventions. This was back in the early/mid 90's, and after that, it vanished.
 
Basically, the stores would be contracted to be retail outlets for Aerotech products. They would not be buying products, hoping to sell them. They would be stocked by Aerotech. Obviously, Aerotech would determine the inventory, based on local demand of each store.

Dave F.
That requires a massive reorganization of how the stores do business. Right now, they buy merchandise and sell it. Taking consignments would require an entire new accounting system. If you think getting into hobby stores under the existing business model is hard, wait until you try to convince Accounting to upend everything for a new product line.
 
That requires a massive reorganization of how the stores do business. Right now, they buy merchandise and sell it. Taking consignments would require an entire new accounting system. If you think getting into hobby stores under the existing business model is hard, wait until you try to convince Accounting to upend everything for a new product line.
It’s absurd from our end too. We would empty out our inventory with no assured income, and have no way to fill orders from paying customers.
 
Sure, just make me the CEO of Aerotech - LOL !

Seriously, easier access for hobby shops would increase availability to the rocketry public, without us having to pay exorbitant shipping ( especially HAZMAT ), and increase the volume of sales by virtue of the convenience of local accessibility of kits, parts, & motors.

Using Estes as an example . . . If an online retailer can sell Estes products at 30% - 40% off MSRP and still make money, that tells me that the MSRP is a pretty high mark-up over whatever the retailer is actually paying for Estes products. Let's not forget that Estes is also happy with its profit margin, too.

So, if Estes has a hypothetical rocket that has an MSRP of $50.00 and the retailer sells it at a 30% discount ( $35.00 ) and makes a decent profit ( probably $10-$12 / unit ), obviously, the cost to Estes is substantially less that the amount charged to a discount retailer, since Estes also makes an acceptable profit. If I had to make a guess, I would guesstimate that Estes cost is right around 20%-25% of MSRP.

Not to say that is a bad thing . . . Profit occurs at every level ( Manufacturing, Distribution, Retail ),

Dave F.
Hobby manufacturers sell to distributors and big retailer chains at a discount that is enough for them to cover expenses and make a reasonable profit. The distribution chain makes the lion’s share of the margin in this business.

However, the hobby industry has been moving to online sales for years now. That enables access to product by customers in even the most remote areas.
 
Last edited:
Basically, the stores would be contracted to be retail outlets for Aerotech products. They would not be buying products, hoping to sell them. They would be stocked by Aerotech. Obviously, Aerotech would determine the inventory, based on local demand of each store.

Dave F.
That would require a massive infusion of capital and the assumption of greatly increased risk. Not part of our business plan at the moment.
 
Is there anyway to make a apcp motor that can stage without electronics. I have enjoyed flying q-jets in my lpr fleet, but I still need black powder estes motors for simple staging.
 
Is there anyway to make a apcp motor that can stage without electronics. I have enjoyed flying q-jets in my lpr fleet, but I still need black powder estes motors for simple staging.
Not easily or reliably for coreburning motors. We’ve done it with endburners in the distant past.

We’ve successfully staged black powder motors to Q-Jets, but the reliability wasn’t sufficient to recommend it.
 
Last edited:
That would require a massive infusion of capital and the assumption of greatly increased risk. Not part of our business plan at the moment.

I bet there are at least 17 other ways that would be more effective to grow the business with the capital investment it would take to put consignment stock in a few hundred hobby shops.
 
Is there anyway to make a apcp motor that can stage without electronics. I have enjoyed flying q-jets in my lpr fleet, but I still need black powder estes motors for simple staging.
I staged composite motors in '90's using thermalite fuse in a protective tube. Both stages are lit at the same time. A plastic tube was used with the fuse exposed only at the top inside the upper stage core. The fuse burns faster enclosed, so it took some testing to get the delay right. I think the smallest motor I got this to work with was an AT D21 back in my NAR contest days. Staged D-to-D for E eggloft altitude... highest flight but the passenger cracked up. ;-) Largest upper motor was a G80. It's best to get this to work lighting the motor this way as a single stage before trying a two stager.
 
I staged composite motors in '90's using thermalite fuse in a protective tube. Both stages are lit at the same time. A plastic tube was used with the fuse exposed only at the top inside the upper stage core. The fuse burns faster enclosed, so it took some testing to get the delay right. I think the smallest motor I got this to work with was an AT D21 back in my NAR contest days. Staged D-to-D for E eggloft altitude... highest flight but the passenger cracked up. ;-) Largest upper motor was a G80. It's best to get this to work lighting the motor this way as a single stage before trying a two stager.
Yes, this was an effective way to stage composites even in the ‘70s. Back then we just used the igniter wick that came with the Enerjet motors, and ignited them a second or so apart. I successfully launched a 3-stage rocket using that method.
 
Yes, this was an effective way to stage composites even in the ‘70s. Back then we just used the igniter wick that came with the Enerjet motors, and ignited them a second or so apart. I successfully launched a 3-stage rocket using that method.
Near as I know Thermalite is not available anymore. Is there a substitute that could work with this method?
 
Breaking news…

The redesigned O5280X DMS motor “performed flawlessly” during TMT certification testing this weekend, and will be available for the 2023 flying season including for collegiate competitions.

Also, a new RMS-75/5120 ‘M’ motor reload kit was certified and will be announced during the Virtual NARCON Manufacturers’ Forum on 1/27.

Photos and videos from AeroTech's O5280X test late last year.
IMG_0620.jpeg
IMG_0622.jpeg
IMG_0624.jpeg

View attachment IMG_0623.MOV
 
Last edited:
Breaking news…

The redesigned O5280X DMS motor “performed flawlessly” during certification testing this weekend, and will be available for the 2023 flying season including for collegiate competitions.

Also, a new RMS-75/5120 ‘M’ motor reload kit was certified and will be announced during the Virtual NARCON Manufacturers’ Forum on 1/27.
The M motor is definitely something that will have my interest...
 
Sure, just make me the CEO of Aerotech - LOL !

Seriously, easier access for hobby shops would increase availability to the rocketry public, without us having to pay exorbitant shipping ( especially HAZMAT ), and increase the volume of sales by virtue of the convenience of local accessibility of kits, parts, & motors.

Using Estes as an example . . . If an online retailer can sell Estes products at 30% - 40% off MSRP and still make money, that tells me that the MSRP is a pretty high mark-up over whatever the retailer is actually paying for Estes products. Let's not forget that Estes is also happy with its profit margin, too.

So, if Estes has a hypothetical rocket that has an MSRP of $50.00 and the retailer sells it at a 30% discount ( $35.00 ) and makes a decent profit ( probably $10-$12 / unit ), obviously, the cost to Estes is substantially less that the amount charged to a discount retailer, since Estes also makes an acceptable profit. If I had to make a guess, I would guesstimate that Estes own cost is right around 20%-25% of MSRP.

Not to say that is a bad thing . . . Profit occurs at every level ( Manufacturing, Distribution, Retail ),

Dave F.
Estes is discounted because distributors are selling at wholesale prices to the public. The margin left over at these rates require significant volumes of sale to have any real profit. Factor in credit card fees and the margin is less than a dime on dollar. Tracking consignment for Aerotech would be a nightmare, The only thing that would be beneficial is a short duration terms with balance due at end. I may sit on a G77-10 for 15 months but another dealer way not be able to keep them in stock.
 
Back
Top