Fantasy Motors

[smstachwick]

Sparkies in smaller form factors would still be considered Class 1 (High Power) motors regardless of impulse (G75M and G72DM, for example). They could only be launched at NAR and Tripoli run launches.

Is it? My understanding is that the only required involvement by NAR/Tripoli would be a L1 to purchase.

Obviously you still need property owner approval to fly, fire marshal approval in CA, and checking with the FAA is always a good idea if not required outright, but I’ve never seen anything specifying that the launch of these motors must be at a NAR/Tripoli event. FAR is not a section/prefecture of either, for example.

 

[Walter Longburn]

A 54mm full L wired composite end burner

 

[rharshberger]

Is it? My understanding is that the only required involvement by NAR/Tripoli would be a L1 to purchase.

Obviously you still property owner approval to fly, fire marshal approval in CA, and checking with the FAA is always a good idea if not required outright, but I’ve never seen anything specifying that the launch of these motors must be at a NAR/Tripoli event. FAR is not a section/prefecture of either, for example.

All Sparkies are considered HPR motors therefore the L1 requirement. As for only launched at NAR/TRA launches thats new to me, afaik, as long as the flier is under a waiver (FAA) they can fly any motor their cert level allows (within insurance limitations of course).

 

[boatgeek]

All Sparkies are considered HPR motors therefore the L1 requirement. As for only launched at NAR/TRA launches thats new to me, afaik, as long as the flier is under a waiver (FAA) they can fly any motor their cert level allows (within insurance limitations of course).

Do sparkies require a waiver if they're under 125g of propellant? [Eyes a G106SK I was planning on flying this weekend at a FAR 101 site]

 

[cerving]

Do sparkies require a waiver if they're under 125g of propellant? [Eyes a G106SK I was planning on flying this weekend at a FAR 101 site]

No, it's an NFPA rule (and therefore TRA/NAR), not an FAA rule. Class 1 is an FAA thing... LPR/HPR is NFPA/TRA/NAR.

 

[smstachwick]

Do sparkies require a waiver if they're under 125g of propellant? [Eyes a G106SK I was planning on flying this weekend at a FAR 101 site]

I committed to memory a while back a handy little diagram that covered the overlap and non-overlap of certification and waiver requirements. Only 125g propellant and/or 1500g liftoff mass trigger an FAA waiver.

But even a waiver doesn’t necessarily mean NAR/Tripoli event.

 

[Neutronium95]

It would be amazing if Aerotech could developed a version of the Pegasus fin tip motor for the hobby market. It's mentioned in the Warp 9 white paper. A 20 second burn N motor would be amazing.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Do sparkies require a waiver if they're under 125g of propellant? [Eyes a G106SK I was planning on flying this weekend at a FAR 101 site]

Nothing about a sparky requires a COA. If a rocket is Class 2 or Class 3 then it requires a COA.
FAA doesn’t care about propellant type. Only weight of propellant and rocket.

NFPA is what establishes a motor as High Power for reasons of purchasing and certification.
The two sets of rules don’t intersect perfectly.
So, it’s completely possible that you could fly a High Power (according to NFPA 1122, 1125, and 1127) that is considered Class 1 by FAA and thus requires no COA (waiver).

 

[charrington]

If we are getting really weird why not a high power motor that uses a double base propellant like the sprint missile! I wonder if thats even possible (obviously not legal)

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I looked at composite Micro-Maxx end burners. The sticking point was getting the starter through a .016" nozzle throat
Would be a full 1/4A.5-3

 

[dhbarr]

I looked at composite Micro-Maxx end burners. The sticking point was getting the starter through a .016" nozzle throat
Would be a full 1/4A.5-3

Cast a wire loop directly into the propellant, no dimple.

 

[Neutronium95]

I looked at composite Micro-Maxx end burners. The sticking point was getting the starter through a .016" nozzle throat
Would be a full 1/4A.5-3

Maybe a use case for laser ignition? Build a launch pad with a high power laser built into the blast deflector that's carefully aligned with the nozzle, and light the propellant that way.

 

[Banzai88]

More mid-sized Greens!

 

[jqavins]

I would like to see a reusable BP motor...

What would be the advantage over composite propellant?

If we are getting really weird why not a high power motor that uses a double base propellant like the sprint missile! I wonder if thats even possible (obviously not legal)

Why not legal?

Cast a wire loop directly into the propellant, no dimple.

And maybe a tiny pyrogen bead around the wire, so it's really a whole cast-in igniter.

 

[John Kemker]

Maybe a use case for laser ignition? Build a launch pad with a high power laser built into the blast deflector that's carefully aligned with the nozzle, and light the propellant that way.

So, your laser gets blasted as soon as it ignites the motor? Good way to lose an expensive laser, I'd think. Of course, there may be a way around it. I just don't see one.

 

[smstachwick]

So, your laser gets blasted as soon as it ignites the motor? Good way to lose an expensive laser, I'd think. Of course, there may be a way around it. I just don't see one.

Microcontroller sliding a blast shield across the aperature as soon as continuity drops out?

IDK, that’s all I could think of in the space of 5 seconds.

 

[heada]

Microcontroller sliding a blast shield across the aperature as soon as continuity drops out?

IDK, that’s all I could think of in the space of 5 seconds.

Mirrors. A 1" square of mirrored glass is easy to clean or replace.

 

[cwbullet]

I would like to see long burn 24 and 29 mm motors like the G, H, and I that Ellis mountain used to sell.

 

[prfesser]

Are delay grains subject to the same rules and formula requirements as propellant for TRA research launches?

Pressed colored smoke is easy, but really messy. I've been needing an excuse to open a package of phthalocyanine blue powder, but don't want to make my backyard turn blue if it can't be used.

A pressed color-smoke delay grain might not fall under the rules for sugar propellants due to the oxidizer usually used for colored smoke. And a composite delay grain that produces color is kinda difficult due to the much higher combustion temperature that turns almost everything that can burn into tiny, tiny molecules & fragments that have no color.

 

[prfesser]

I would like to see a reusable BP motor.

The current BP propellant slug could still be pressed by a Mabel into a smaller diameter paper casing, that the end user inserts into a CFRP casing that has a screw-in nozzle on one end with a screw-in delay train/ejection charge on the other end, where the delay train is made from a slow composite fuel that a person could drill to determine the delay they want.

So the propellant would be BP but the delay train would be composite. The ejection charge of course would remain BP.

With the CFRP casing being able to hold higher chamber pressures, the Isp would be improved.

With a screw-in nozzle, it would be able to hold higher chamber pressures than a pressed clay nozzle mechanically bonded to the paper casing.

Firefox advertised a reloadable BP motor kit that was "coming soon." I believe that was in the mid-90s...<snork>

Back then I liked the idea too but suspected some specific practical problems, which I won't go into.

 

[Antares JS]

-Micro Maxx motors with longer delays (a full two seconds would be great)
-Proper Micro Maxx boosters with propellant only and no delay
-Redline Q-jets
-Classic (smokeless) propellant Q-jets
-Metalstorm N and O motors
-Easy-to-use consumer-grade liquid rocket engines for hobby rockets

 

[Kallahan11]

Warp 9 Qjets in both endburning and insaino if you can get a delay to light with them. Otherwise Super thunder would be fun
A super thunder 38/1320, maybe 4 bates grains and the rest end burning for a dual thrust.
a 98/15360 super thunder, ala the old CTI Vmax N10,000
Sparky or black max 38/1320
A propellant X 38/1320 load.

Don't think many of those are realistically possible though.

 

[boatgeek]

I would like to see long burn 24 and 29 mm motors like the G, H, and I that Ellis mountain used to sell.

CTI has some pretty nice moonburners (F30, G65 in 24mm; G33, G54, H54, H42, H53 in 29mm). No longburn I's in 29mm, but a 29mm I is a fairly rare beast.

 

[smstachwick]

-Proper Micro Maxx boosters with propellant only and no delay

Such an obvious thing, and yet…nothing.

-Redline Q-jets

-Classic (smokeless) propellant Q-jets

Yes, please.

-Easy-to-use consumer-grade liquid rocket engines for hobby rockets

 

[jqavins]

-Easy-to-use consumer-grade liquid rocket engines for hobby rockets

Ooo, baby baby baby oo! That's the kind of far out fantasy I'm talkin' about.

 

[Antares JS]

Such an obvious thing, and yet…nothing.

Unfortunately Aerotech has already come out and said they won't be manufacturing any more Micro Maxx motors, so what is made is what we have to work with.

 

[smstachwick]

Unfortunately Aerotech has already come out and said they won't be manufacturing any more Micro Maxx motors, so what is made is what we have to work with.

That’s a good fantasy, new-manufacture MMX.

A moment of silence for our fallen motor types…



















Thank you.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

It would be amazing if Aerotech could developed a version of the Pegasus fin tip motor for the hobby market. It's mentioned in the Warp 9 white paper. A 20 second burn N motor would be amazing.

Look on John Cokers ( jcrocket.com ) as he has flown a couple

 

[charrington]

What would be the advantage over composite propellant?


Why not legal?


And maybe a tiny pyrogen bead around the wire, so it's really a whole cast-in igniter.

Not legal because of the perceived formula (actual formula not known). Basically a TNT motor to my understanding. Most likely would require licenses that are out of reach for anyone in the amateur sector.

 

[Antares JS]

Why not legal?

The "double" in double-base propellant refers to nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin.