DAllen
Well-Known Member
Something I've always thought would be fun for L1/L2 certs would be to get a LOC Warlock and L1 on a I600 then turn around and L2 on a J350. Same rocket, same casing lol.
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Pick any 3"-4" cardboard HPR kit you like, build it stock, and you're there.
Build it in your simulator, update the ready to fly weight and use the field size/altitude to pick your motor.
Indeed! Or L2 motors, for that matter.
Build it in your simulator, update the ready to fly weight and use the field size/altitude to pick your motor.
Indeed! Or L2 motors, for that matter.
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The only thing I'd suggest is that you be aware of your recovery area. For some locations, low and slow is the rule. If you are in the Black Rock Desert, you obviously will have different concerns than a 300 acre sod field.
A LOC Goblin or pretty much any 4" will get a level 1 (or 2) pretty easily. Lots of options out there though.
A LOC Goblin or pretty much any 4" will get a level 1 (or 2) pretty easily. Lots of options out there though.
My 2 cents on general L1 stuff:
If you've built and successfully flown rockets using F and G impulse composite propellent motors then you have the stuff to go L1, no worries. If not, do not pass GO, do not collect $200, do build and fly some mid-power first. Until recently, most high power kits included bare-bones instructions, no recommended motors and no recovery device. Manufactures at one time assumed alot of prior knowledge and build experience. Experience with a sim program is valuable because the CG of bigger rockets can vary materially depending on how you build it and you're expected to be able to make adjustments as needed to the CP/CG relationship.
As far as the LOC Spitfire goes, it's a great kit that LOC brought back by its purchase of PML. The materials used are plastic, quantum tube (special sauce thin PVC), and G10 fiberglass. If those materials are new to you then I would suggest staying with material you've used in the past. Lots of high power kits available with cardboard airframes and plywood fins.
I always surf through https://www.rocketreviews.com/ when researching model rockets. Hope this helps.
https://locprecision.com/products/spitfire-rocket
If you've built and successfully flown rockets using F and G impulse composite propellent motors then you have the stuff to go L1, no worries. If not, do not pass GO, do not collect $200, do build and fly some mid-power first. Until recently, most high power kits included bare-bones instructions, no recommended motors and no recovery device. Manufactures at one time assumed alot of prior knowledge and build experience. Experience with a sim program is valuable because the CG of bigger rockets can vary materially depending on how you build it and you're expected to be able to make adjustments as needed to the CP/CG relationship.
As far as the LOC Spitfire goes, it's a great kit that LOC brought back by its purchase of PML. The materials used are plastic, quantum tube (special sauce thin PVC), and G10 fiberglass. If those materials are new to you then I would suggest staying with material you've used in the past. Lots of high power kits available with cardboard airframes and plywood fins.
I always surf through https://www.rocketreviews.com/ when researching model rockets. Hope this helps.
https://locprecision.com/products/spitfire-rocket
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dr wogz
Fly caster
one thing I've noticed with 'new HPR' flyers, ones that want to do their L1, is that they really don't know what the [motor] numbers mean. They have an idea, but really can't work out what they mean, if the chosen motor is enough for the desired rocket.. or too much..
Know what the numbers mean, and how they affect the flight!
I have refused an L1 attempt as they had a small H for a 7lb rocket..
Know what the numbers mean, and how they affect the flight!
I have refused an L1 attempt as they had a small H for a 7lb rocket..
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I’ve been guilty of this. For my L1 I was looking at a 38mm rocket that could test-fly as a large mid-power rocket at my Class 1 site and also be suitable for L1 and L2 certs. I quickly discovered that I didn’t truly have a concept of what kind of power I’d be playing with. The factor of difference in total impulse between a G and a K is the same as that between a 1/2A and a D. Five total impulse ranges, a factor of at least 8 but possibly approaching 32. The thrust difference is often pretty crazy too, a Loki K627 delivers more than 9 times the average thrust of an AeroTech G67, but they’re the same diameter and fit in some of the same rockets.
It was at that point that I realized, with the help of the community, that an L2 cert may be done better with a different rocket designed specifically around that goal, and then I could mess around with overpowering G-H rockets on Js and Ks all I wanted once I got the cert flight taken care of.
All this to say that you have to do the math and know what it is that you’re getting into before you commit to flight. I’m glad I got some good advice on this, as now I’ve got a clearer picture of how to achieve my goals.
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dr wogz
Fly caster
Not really. the L2 test has some questions in this regard, but it's mostly about safety & distances & such.It's like they should take a simplified version of the L2 test.
No, an L1 candidate should be able to answer a few CP/CG and flight profile questions. but as originally stated, some just think the number = raw power" "Bigger must be better". (It does, but not in the way they think)
An L1 candidate should be able to tell you what the smallest motor they can use on their particular rocket. They should also tell you the that largest motor available will yield "X" type flight profile, and that they might hit MACH (and is that a good thing?) They should also be able to tell you the burn time and how that affects the total thrust / impulse. And to understand / define that a a lighter 'push' over a longer time can yield higher altitudes & such..
at the very least, that they can point to the thrust graph, and know what it is & how to read it..
but then again, it is up to the LCO / RSO and their witness to ask these types of questions, and ensure they know what they are getting into!
I may be in trouble if asked all those questions.
Wow a ton more great suggestions. With the questions concerning thrust graphs and total impulses of rocket motors and their numbers, I have looked over that material before, just not completely in depth and have a basic understanding. I have a good amount of experience flying f motors so I am fairly sure that this step up would be manageable. As far as rockets, the Goblin is a very nice looking kit and I am deciding between Goblin or Zephyr.
Both good choices. I built a Zephyr and am very impressed with the design, engineering, quality and instructions. Flies great also! Put a 54mm motor mount in it and a nosecone bay for a tracker.
I saw your post on this rocket it looks awesome! What motor did you put in it?
I have flown it with a CTI iI20 and CTI J210. Both worked very well.
Note; With a 54mm motor mount you can get an adapter to fly 38mm motors.
I have another 4" rocket with a 75mm mount but fly it with 54mm motors.
I sure would like to know how many of those kits they have sold so far. That's a popular rocket
Guess that means you'll be ordering a Goblin. If you do, you won't be disappointed.
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lock mini magg 5.5 with motor mount upgraded to 54mm. it flies great on many L1 motors( and have seen one on a J90) then when ready for L2, buy a section of body tube, coupler, bulk plate, eye bolt, and youre ready for L2 motors.
SkyFire, can you please provide more details about how you put the nosecone bay together? Thanks!
Mac Performance Rocketry offers great, affordable, easy to install nosecone bay kits;
https://macperformancerocketry.com/collections/nosecone-bay-kits
Thank you!! So how do you attach the tracker's sled into the closure lid?
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The bottom of the sled slides into the square opening of the closure lid. I used a section of foam rubber pipe insulation to secure and cushion the rest. I'm sure there's other ways to do it but this was easy and works well.
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Thanks!
Hello
Zephyr is a great rocket. Watch the videos for the build. The instructions detail proper motors for L1 Cert. I used H 100. KISS
Good Luck,
Bart
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I agree with Bart. Go with the recommended motors in the instructions and you should be good to go.
The first decision point is should you go with a reloadable motor or a single use motor. Under the KISS principle, single use is probably the way to go just to get your certification. In that case, the H100 or H135 are good choices. For reloadable, the Aerotech H128 or H165 are nice safe baby H motors that will get the job done. If you have a 38mm motor mount tube, you could also use the Cesaroni H motors which are practically single use motors in aluminum cases. You should probably consider all of these factors and what stock your local vendor has on hand before purchasing your hardware.
Here’s the motor chart. You will need mother retention and I suggest a shock cord cover or go to Kevla. LOC has all in one Kits that have motor retainer include.
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Did you sign up with Apogee for the notification when they get the Zepher back in stock?
Check out Binder Design.
www.binderdesign.com
They have some nice kits with cardboard airframes. The Velociraptor is my most-flown rocket. I did my L1 on a shortened version of it.
www.binderdesign.com
They have some nice kits with cardboard airframes. The Velociraptor is my most-flown rocket. I did my L1 on a shortened version of it.
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If Apogee is out of Zepher rockets, I wouldn’t wait for a restock. There are plenty of rockets that will work for you. If the quality of the instructions is important to you, take a look at a Binder Design Excel, a SBR Fusion or an Aerotech Sumo. The Sumo is basically a low and slow stubby rocket that goes together with CA glue. The other two use conventional construction techniques like epoxy (any you can find at a hardware store would do). The performance of the Excel or Fusion would be similar to the Zepher.
