Level Three if So Desired

[Steven88]

Hello.

I have flown L2 with duel altimeters up to the AT L850 motor. I missed doing a new build last winter and am thinking ahead to a possible build this winter. I am interested in something that will fly possibly on an M or maybe just a baby M if so desired but that I can still stick to K and L sized motors other times. I was wondering what some good kit recommendations are for such a rocket? I am wondering as well if it is practical to build a rocket with level three capibilities if I’m not necessarily planning to fly L3 immediately? I do realize that it takes having the TAP involved with the build process to be allowed an L3 flight. Maybe my idea is crazy until I’m sure I want to go L3 immediately? I am interested in the idea of flying some M motors someday and didn’t want to miss my chance when that time came because the build process wasn’t approved at the time of the build? I’m sure once you’ve built a rocket that can take an M the first thing you want to do is fly it on such and not wait too long

 

[sharkbait]

Hello.

I have flown L2 with duel altimeters up to the AT L850 motor. I missed doing a new build last winter and am thinking ahead to a possible build this winter. I am interested in something that will fly possibly on an M or maybe just a baby M if so desired but that I can still stick to K and L sized motors other times. I was wondering what some good kit recommendations are for such a rocket? I am wondering as well if it is practical to build a rocket with level three capibilities if I’m not necessarily planning to fly L3 immediately? I do realize that it takes having the TAP involved with the build process to be allowed an L3 flight. Maybe my idea is crazy until I’m sure I want to go L3 immediately? I am interested in the idea of flying some M motors someday and didn’t want to miss my chance when that time came because the build process wasn’t approved at the time of the build? I’m sure once you’ve built a rocket that can take an M the first thing you want to do is fly it on such and not wait too long

This will depend a lot on your waiver and your realistic recovery area. Being on the east coast, I have a lot of rockets that fly great on K’s and can easily handle an M, but busting the waiver and landing somewhere deep in the nearby forest is a no go

 

[Steven88]

I happen to live close to the rocket pasture and they sometimes have a 50k ft waiver and they have a great recovery area

 

[rharshberger]

Steven, your in Seattle area right? There a number of L3CC's and TAP's in WA state. You have two options for fields within WA or 3-4 hours iirc, Gorge Rocketry or TCR (I am on the TCR Board), TCR's waiver is 9000'.

Edit: wrong Steven sorry.

 

[DaHabes]

Hello.

I have flown L2 with duel altimeters up to the AT L850 motor. I missed doing a new build last winter and am thinking ahead to a possible build this winter. I am interested in something that will fly possibly on an M or maybe just a baby M if so desired but that I can still stick to K and L sized motors other times. I was wondering what some good kit recommendations are for such a rocket? I am wondering as well if it is practical to build a rocket with level three capibilities if I’m not necessarily planning to fly L3 immediately? I do realize that it takes having the TAP involved with the build process to be allowed an L3 flight. Maybe my idea is crazy until I’m sure I want to go L3 immediately? I am interested in the idea of flying some M motors someday and didn’t want to miss my chance when that time came because the build process wasn’t approved at the time of the build? I’m sure once you’ve built a rocket that can take an M the first thing you want to do is fly it on such and not wait too long

When I do my L3, I plan on doing a 75mm MMT and do my L3 on a baby M. L2 is the sweet spot in terms of motors (variety and $$$). L3 is a goal but not something I would fly all the time, so a 4", 75mm bird makes the most sense to me. Plenty of kits that fall into that category or a scratch build (which is most of what I do these days)

 

[rharshberger]

When I do my L3, I plan on doing a 75mm MMT and do my L3 on a baby M. L2 is the sweet spot in terms of motors (variety and $$$). L3 is a goal but not something I would fly all the time, so a 4", 75mm bird makes the most sense to me. Plenty of kits that fall into that category or a scratch build (which is most of what I do these days)

So an M1297W...its about as close as you can get to being an L and still be an M (its a 5% M).

 

[cerving]

If you've done dual altimeters with a decent L, your L3 isn't that far away. Any 4" or larger fiberglass kit with a 75mm motor mount should do you fine.

 

[G_T]

If on the east, sometimes light and fat is worth considering. It stays subsonic, and when the motor shuts off, it slows down very quickly. That's for rockets that are well under optimal mass. You'd just have to stick in a little nose weight for an M to maintain static margin.

I used to fly heavy fiberglass 6" on N and O motors. Cool flights. But once the motor cuts off it is invisible. Good luck spotting the drogue on the way down unless lots of eyes. And it's a bit far away to really enjoy the main opening and the landing, at least most of the time. Certed with an M on it. Then only flew EX N and O. Probably the only flight when it stayed mostly visible and landed relatively close to the pad was the cert flight on a 7600 cased M. Roughly 80 pounds pad weight with an N. Roughly 1' altitude per Ns. Supersonic on a baby O.

A light 6", something based on perhaps PML tubing, with a blunter nosecone, would net less than 1' per Ns. That should be manageable on lots of fields on K through light M motors, and give plenty of enjoyable flights.

Gerald

 

[jimzcatz]

So an M1297W...its about as close as you can get to being an L and still be an M (its a 5% M).

Actually, the Loki M1200 is the smallest M motor available in terms of total impulse.

 

[user 30299]

This rocket weighs it at 33 lbs, and that's fully loaded, with motor; 5.5" dia., 9'-4" tall.
Its Loc cardboard tubing and plywood all around. On an AT M1297 (75mm) it goes
to 9,700 ft. That is AT's baby M. Sims show the L1090 (54mm) should work fine too.
Will give it a try in the Fall.

 

[BDB]

I’m planning to scratch build a 6” blue tube rocket for L3 for many of the reasons mentioned here. I’m on the east coast, so lighter and fatter gives me more options.

 

[DaHabes]

So an M1297W...its about as close as you can get to being an L and still be an M (its a 5% M).

M1350 DMS. Single use is better for cert flights, less to go wrong.

 

[Steven88]

Steven, your in Seattle area right? There a number of L3CC's and TAP's in WA state. You have two options for fields within WA or 3-4 hours iirc, Gorge Rocketry or TCR (I am on the TCR Board), TCR's waiver is 9000'.

Edit: wrong Steven sorry.

I’m over by the Rocket Pasture, Argonia, KS (actually three hours away but it’s my closest option)

 

[Steven88]

If you've done dual altimeters with a decent L, your L3 isn't that far away. Any 4" or larger fiberglass kit with a 75mm motor mount should do you fine.

Duel altimeters with your Eggtimers, Cris

 

[Steven88]

This rocket weighs it at 33 lbs, and that's fully loaded, with motor; 5.5" dia., 9'-4" tall.
Its Loc cardboard tubing and plywood all around. On an AT M1297 (75mm) it goes
to 9,700 ft. That is AT's baby M. Sims show the L1090 (54mm) should work fine too.
Will give it a try in the Fall.

View attachment 523753

Nice build!

 

[Steven88]

Is the Loc Goblin 7.5” diameter a bad option for for an L3? Probably something to discuss with the TAP first.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Is the Loc Goblin 7.5” diameter a bad option for for an L3? Probably something to discuss with the TAP first.

I have a 7.5" Goblin I built in 2010. Build thread https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/almost-a-goblin.8709/ It weighs 32 lb. prepped but not including motor. Due to dimensional issues with Blue Tube, it has a G12 main body. The internals are still like the build thread. The 32 lb. is the fiberglass body.
Here it is on a K700 maiden flight.

It loves medium to large L motors, just under a foot/N-s. Here's a L2500ST

Beautiful flights on Aerotech M750.

And I have flown it on a Rx N800, 17 sec burn, 98/15360 case.

 

[Neutronium95]

Is the Loc Goblin 7.5” diameter a bad option for for an L3? Probably something to discuss with the TAP first.

There has been at least one documented case of the fins fluttering off on a M motor, so you'll want to reinforce those a bit.

 

[Steven88]

There has been at least one documented case of the fins fluttering off on a M motor, so you'll want to reinforce those a bit.

Like maybe better glass the fins?

 

[Steven88]

So this probably sounds crazy but is it possible to build something for an M motor that won’t go completely out of sight but will still fly fast enough to be stable? I like to build rockets that the crowd can see the entire time. (Yes, I do want it to get really small though). When I launch my Loc Big Nuke to 7,400’ on an L850 it goes out of sight and we lose sight of it until shortly before the main deploys. I know this is personal preference as a lot of rocketeers want to fly as high as possible. I’ve decided a K560 is better for my Nuke personally.

 

[thzero]

Weight and drag and OpenRocket are your friends.

 

[Steven88]

Need to play around with my Rocksim.

 

[jmasterj]

Drag is the best way to get there.

 

[Antares JS]

Drag or your paint job... my level 3 flew to 7100 feet, but it had a shining metallic silver finish and we could see light flashing off it the entire way up and down.

 

[boatgeek]

So this probably sounds crazy but is it possible to build something for an M motor that won’t go completely out of sight but will still fly fast enough to be stable? I like to build rockets that the crowd can see the entire time. (Yes, I do want it to get really small though). When I launch my Loc Big Nuke to 7,400’ on an L850 it goes out of sight and we lose sight of it until shortly before the main deploys. I know this is personal preference as a lot of rocketeers want to fly as high as possible. I’ve decided a K560 is better for my Nuke personally.

I just flew a kind of stupid heavy and draggy extended 5.5" Minnie Magg on an L875 (~50% L) to about 7000 feet. It was plenty fast off the pad, but slowed down pretty quick due to drag. It was (mostly) visible the whole flight. A cardboard 6" or 7.5" would probably be the ticket, maybe with a little reinforcement. You might be able to do a tube fin 5.5" and keep it in sight too.

 

[jimzcatz]

My L3 rocket only hits 4500 ft. 80 pounds at launch

 

[Steven88]

Wow! Would you mind sending me a pic of it?

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

M1350 DMS. Single use is better for cert flights, less to go wrong.

How is building a SU motor any less complicated then a reload ?

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Actually, the Loki M1200 is the smallest M motor available in terms of total impulse.

100 percent correct . It is only 5100 ns and change. It is technically not even a 1 percent M as it is still in the L range .

 

[Hobie1dog]

I have a 7.5" Goblin I built in 2010. Build thread https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/almost-a-goblin.8709/ It weighs 32 lb. prepped but not including motor. Due to dimensional issues with Blue Tube, it has a G12 main body. The internals are still like the build thread. The 32 lb. is the fiberglass body.

And I have flown it on a Rx N800, 17 sec burn, 98/15360 case.

N800, that would be my choice to do on my "Bucket List" launch.

you stuck the landing on that K700 too, beautiful flight.