the Estes fin alignment tool - how to get it to work?

[Jimmy D. Jones]

So I got one of those Estes fin alignment tools, and I am struggling with what should be a simple thing.

To use it you insert one of the smallest tubes (13mm) into the stand, and insert the standard A/B/C (18mm) and then D (24mm) motor tube blanks over to center larger tubes onto the tool.

That sounds easy, but I cannot get the smallest tube outer diameter to fit into the inner diameter of the A/B/C size tube. The issue doesn't seem to be one of a bad "lead in" to the ID of the A/B/C size tube. The ID of the A/B/C size tube is either too small or the OD of the 13mm is too large. They just don't fit - the overlap seems to be a few mm. I could sand the heck out of OD of the small 13mm tube till it fits inside the other one, but you really shouldn't need to do that.

Any ideas whats up here? Any suggestions?

 

[Zeta]

consider contacting Estes and see if they will send a few tubes that fit each other. I had to add scotch tape to the smallest tube to make mine work ... which was an easy fix compared to your kit.

Outside of that is is possible to peal a layer of paper off the smallest tube vs. sanding it... if the peel makes it too small then it would be easy to wrap some scotch tape on the top and bottom of the small tube to get a good fit.

 

[DaHabes]

Any ideas whats up here? Any suggestions?

Open lid on trash can. Chuck it in. Close lid on trash can. Open beer.

 

[JonathanOtt]

I had to bevel the ends of my smaller tubes to get them to start into their mate tube. But you said yours had a multi millimeter overlap...call Estes.

 

[MJW]

It's really not a very useful tool. The flat slip on style work much better. These can be easily cut from cardboard, 3d printed, laser cut, or simply purchased.

 

[MidOH]

Is it yellow? The Olde carbon nylon ones are serviceable. The new yellow ones are useless. You have to gently sand round edges onto the paper tubes, then they'll press into each other. The first one has to be tight. Pretty much permanent. If it's too tight on the rocket, you're out of luck. It'll have to be peeled or sanded.

Get Apogee and Mach1 fin guides instead. You'll be way happier with those.

 

[smstachwick]

I’ve had some luck with the fin alignment jig but @Zeta is correct. Peel, sand, or tape as necessary, and don’t forget to actually mark your tube as instructed before attempting to attach the fins.

Sometimes there are irregularities that are difficult to correct for in production. Same with AeroTech reload liner tubes, I’ve had to peel every one I’ve used.

If you don’t want to fiddle around with mass-produced consumer products, may want to try the printable guides from payload-bay.com. Cheap and pretty easy to use if you have foamboard available.

 

[JonathanOtt]

I'm giving this one a try on my next couple builds:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4932475

 

[cbwho]

I have an Estes fin guide and it's so so...

One trick for fin rockets is to glue the 2 opposite fins while laying flat with boards for spacers. They way they are perfectly opposite. Then use the fin guide for the remaining 2.

 

[teepot]

Take the Estes fin guide and toss it. Unless you like your fins misaligned. I used one when I first started building rockets again. I couldn't get the fins opposite each other. So the fins were offset the thickness of the fin holder. Get some foam board at Walmart for 88 cents each and print a template from Payloadbay.com. Glue it to the board and cut out the fin guide. Nice straight fins.

 

[jqavins]

It's really not a very useful tool. The flat slip on style work much better.

The flat slip on style is good for indexing and radial alignment, and totally useless for longitudinal alignment, i.e. zero cant angle.

Take the Estes fin guide and toss it.

When the question is "How do I use this tool?", "Throw it away" is not an answer. Throwing it away is not using it.

Unless you like your fins misaligned. I used one when I first started building rockets again. I couldn't get the fins opposite each other.

It sounds like you were doing something wrong with it. I say this as someone who uses the Estes fin jig on nearly every build, and I get good results with it, and I love it. Any tool or technique takes a little practice. It also sounds like your difficulty was not with getting the centering posts in.

OK, criticizing another user's answer is also not an answer to Jimmy's question. So...

Take a used 18 mm engine and clean out the front. Try to put the small tube into that. If it fits there and not into the one that came with the alignment jig then the one with the jig is defective. The thing is, the central tube is a 13 mm engine tube, the middle one is an 18 mm engine tube, and the biggest one is a 24 mm engine tube. (I've even seen someone do direct staging by pushing engines together like that.)

If you have a little trouble getting one tube into another, that's no different from trouble inserting an engine into a rocket. You can try burnishing the end and/or light sanding, but if the size mismatch is as much as a couple of millimeters then Estes should send you a replacement.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Qualman fin guides

 

[GuyNoir]

Qualman fin guides

I second that recommendation. I have them for 1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" thicknesses. They're relatively inexpensive for a pretty good, easy to use tool.

http://qualmanrocketry.com/Fin_Guides.html

 

[Spitfire222]

The flat slip on style is good for indexing and radial alignment, and totally useless for longitudinal alignment, i.e. zero cant angle.

Which is why you use two of them in conjunction....

 

[jqavins]

You buy or make two of them, add bosses for extra thickness in three or four places, lay them flat together (bosses opposed) and drill alignment holes. Then you glue in dowels through the holes, keeping the two plates very carefully dead parallel.

Or you use a different tool if it's what works for you.

Or you look at a request for help using a particular tool and refrain from responding as if it's an open invitation to talk down said tool and/or recommend others instead.

Alright, I'll stop. It pisses me off when someone asks "How do I <something>?" and receives as answers "Don't <something>, do <something else>", which is completely unhelpful with regard to the request. "Well, you could <something by «this» method>, but I think that <something else> might be a better idea" is a different story.

But I'l stop now.

 

[PhilC]

This is my home-made version. It works with tubes up to BT60 and fin stock up to 1/8 inch. Its a fairly quick job on a 3D printer.

 

[Donnager]

Open lid on trash can. Chuck it in. Close lid on trash can. Open beer.

Worked for me. Still able to align just as well without that rube goldberg apparatus.

 

[K'Tesh]

For me, the Estes Fin Alignment Tool doesn't work. I'll take a fin alignment guide downloaded from payloadbay.com's tools and made from cardboard or foamcore any day.

With the Estes "tool" I was never able to keep kits that had fins that extended below the body tube straight, the rocket would slide down, or be off center, it was nothing but a source of frustration, except in the role of being a rocket stand for rockets that wouldn't stand on their own.

 

[linville86]

Mine Works pretty good, after I figured out one bracket just doesn't quit line up with the others. I've marked it bad and just rotate the rocket to get the 4th fin attached. I still put it on the platform, just to push up and hold the body tube tight with the others.

 

[jqavins]

With the Estes "tool" I was never able to keep kits that had fins that extended below the body tube straight, the rocket would slide down, or be off center...

Up to a point, one can place an improvised spacer below the rocket so that it doesn't slide down. As long as the rocket is not so high that the sliding walls don't reach the body tube, they'll still keep it vertical. (The instructions say, for swept fin rockets, to add a second engine case to the top of the provided one. I've never needed to do that if the body tube is low enough for the walls to support it.) If the fin sweep is too great then, yes, the tool's limit has been exceeded, and a different method must be employed.

 

[brockrwood]

So I got one of those Estes fin alignment tools, and I am struggling with what should be a simple thing.

To use it you insert one of the smallest tubes (13mm) into the stand, and insert the standard A/B/C (18mm) and then D (24mm) motor tube blanks over to center larger tubes onto the tool.

That sounds easy, but I cannot get the smallest tube outer diameter to fit into the inner diameter of the A/B/C size tube. The issue doesn't seem to be one of a bad "lead in" to the ID of the A/B/C size tube. The ID of the A/B/C size tube is either too small or the OD of the 13mm is too large. They just don't fit - the overlap seems to be a few mm. I could sand the heck out of OD of the small 13mm tube till it fits inside the other one, but you really shouldn't need to do that.

Any ideas whats up here? Any suggestions?

I just just dispensed with the tubes that came with the jig and used my own, spent, 13mm, 18mm, and 24mm engines as the mounting parts of the jig. First a 13mm, then, if needed, an 18mm nestled over that, and finally a 24mm spent engine nestled over that. To make everything stay in place I just used wraps of masking tape on the spent engines to get a good fit.

Interesting Observation: Most Estes kits I have built show the fins going on the body tube first, THEN the motor mount being glued in place.

If you use the Estes fin jig, it seems easier to just install the motor mount first. Then you can use the glued in motor mount to easily mount the rocket onto the fin jig.

 

[brockrwood]

Is it yellow? The Olde carbon nylon ones are serviceable. The new yellow ones are useless

I have the old gray colored one. Is that carbon-nylon? It is not ideal but it is competent and with a little fiddling works for most of my 3FNC and 4FNC rockets.

What changed when the new version came out?

 

[user 35280]

These work very well,
http://qualmanrocketry.com/Fin_Guides.html

 

[Marc_G]

I used one years ago, found the tubes for the center didn't do well enough. I put a half inch bolt through it instead, tightened with a nut, and overlaid by a couple wraps of tape. Worked much better then, but was still not accurate enough for me and I built my own.

 

[Donnager]

I found the Estes fin alignment jig to be useless, unless you have endless patience.

Eyeball is faster. Eyeball with a ruler is accurate.

 

[dr wogz]

See Post #19, my fool-proof (and cheap!) method

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/madcow-super-dx3-patriot-a-build-thread.140215/

 

[Lee]

Here's the home made fin guide I've settled on - cheap, easy to build, quick & easy to use, accurate and accommodates many sizes

 

[MidOH]

I have the old gray colored one. Is that carbon-nylon? It is not ideal but it is competent and with a little fiddling works for most of my 3FNC and 4FNC rockets.

What changed when the new version came out?

That's the one. 1980's carbon nylon is stiff, and doesn't warp as easy. Mine had a catywompus guide, on the four fin pattern, so I only built 3 fin rockets as a kid.

The yellow is just cheap warped plastic. Good for the tube cutter guides, next to useless for a fin guide. Estes needs to drop it, and make a copy of Mach1's or Apogee's guides.

 

[astronwolf]

Open lid on trash can. Chuck it in. Close lid on trash can. Open beer.

This, but the beer is optional.

 

[Back_at_it]

I want to add something helpful to this thread but in all honestly I don't have anything positive to say. I've had the Estes fin tool since returning to the hobby and I have tried to use it dozens of times and each time I find it is more trouble than it is worth and I get annoyed with it and end up doing the fins by hand.

I ultimately put mine on market place and sold it.