Is there a kit or kits I could bash to look like this sounding rocket?

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brockrwood

brockrwood

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@beeblebrox inspired me to build a model rocket that looks a sounding rocket on display in Boulder, Colorado, USA.
Boulder is home to LASP, the “Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics” at the University of Colorado.
Nearby is the 29th Street walking mall, an outdoor shopping area. On the mall is this LASP-branded sounding rocket. Here are pics:

CC382C68-4CD5-443A-BA22-EAEF50DA8239.jpeg
B75404F2-35AC-4243-AA9D-1EAB2E504F46.jpeg
I have no idea what this rocket is. Neither do the students who staff the phones at LASP.
Does anyone know what it is? I think it may be a Frankenstein rocket: Not a real rocket but something made out of parts from multiple rockets, ginned up just for display.
Anyway, I kind of like it. Does anyone know of a kit or kits I could bash and modify to make a model rocket that looks like this rocket?
 
Fattbank64 said:
It looks like a Nike Orion.
View attachment 498671
Click to expand...
I just need some sort Nike model rocket for the bottom part and then I can custom make the top part. I will need to decrease the size of the forward fins to keep them from destabilizing rocket, eh what?
I guess I could increase the size of the aft fins but then I might as well custom-make the whole rocket. Also it won’t look as much like the rocket on static display in Boulder.
How is this rocket stable with those big forward fins?
 
Antares JS said:
Those fins aren't really "forward," they are in the middle. And it has bigger aft fins. The middle fins also become the fins after staging.
Click to expand...
Hmm. Maybe I can do a staged model rocket that looks like this? Will need to do gap staging with a big gap between the booster motor and the sustainer motor. I have never tried that. A challenge…
 
Lessee. To create a “scale” or “semi-scale” model of this rocket, I will need to go measure the fins and the circumference and diameter of the booster rocket body. With that data, I ought to be able to just measure the proportions on the photo and figure out how big everything is that I can’t reach in real life to measure.

I guess for the total height of the rocket I could actually get out my homemade “altitrack” and just aim it at the tip of the nose cone and do a little trigonometry!
 
brockrwood said:
I just need some sort Nike model rocket for the bottom part and then I can custom make the top part. I will need to decrease the size of the forward fins to keep them from destabilizing rocket, eh what?
I guess I could increase the size of the aft fins but then I might as well custom-make the whole rocket. Also it won’t look as much like the rocket on static display in Boulder.
How is this rocket stable with those big forward fins?
Click to expand...
You’ll want plenty of weight in the front.
 
Funkworks said:
I thought it was a Terrier Booster but I wouldn't know the difference with a Nike one.
https://locprecision.com/products/terrier-booster
Click to expand...
The more I look at the Terrier pics, the more I think you are right. I think the booster on the LASP static display rocket is a Terrier. The fins on the display rocket are almost clipped deltas. But a little piece on the root of each fin is cut out at the bottom.
 
brockrwood said:
How is this rocket stable with those big forward [middle] fins?
Click to expand...
Nose weight. Also, the sustainer motor keeps the CG forward even though it's not up in the nose, so the nose weight needed is probably not great.

Funkworks said:
I thought it was a Terrier Booster but I wouldn't know the difference with a Nike one.
Click to expand...
Likewise. I've spent a lot of time looking at a Quest Terrier-Orion, and thought it looked like that, but the sustainer may be a bit foreshortened. And I wouldn't trust the scale of the Quest kit to be perfect. And it could easily be a Nike-this, or a That-orion or whatever, as there are lots of two stage sounding rockets that look really similar.

There's the Nike-Orion seen in Post #2. Here's a Terrier-Orion:
1641585847231.png

Black Brandt IX, a.k.a. Terrier-BBV:
1641586018008.png

Black Brandt VIII, a.k.a. Nike-BBV:
1641586080086.png

And one could go on for quite some time.

By the way, what size are you thinking of building? That maybe should have been the first question.

The student who answers the phone at LASP ought to be able to put you in touch with someone there who is more knowledgeable, and you might get to an answer that way. "Oh, you don't know. Is there someone there who might?"

To someone with more in depth knowledge than I have, the interstage might be informative:
1641586276913.png
 
Last edited:
samb said:
I think the Quest Terrier-Orion gets you the closest. OOP now and I'm not sure if alot are out in the wild.

https://www.rocketreviews.com/quest-aerospace-terrier-orion--by-todd-mullin.html
Click to expand...
I think you have nailed it. I think the LASP rocket is some sort of variation on the Terrier-Orion rocket. The Orion top part looks shorter on the static display sounding rocket in Boulder. That’s an easy modification if I can find this OOP Quest kit. Or I can just scratch build it. Except for the transition from Terrier to Orion, it would not be too hard to scratch build a model rocket to look like this.
The wikipedia article about the real Terrier-Orion sounding rocket says that the rocket was spin-stabilized. Hmm. Another challenge…
 
jqavins said:
Nose weight.

Likewise. I've spent a lot of time looking at a Quest Terrier-Orion, and thought it looked like that, but the sustainer may be a bit foreshortened. And I wouldn't trust the scale of the Quest kit to be perfect. And it could easily be a Nike-this, or a That-orion or whatever, as there are lots of two stage sounding rockets that look really similar.

By the way, what size are you thinking of building? That maybe should have been the first question.
Click to expand...
BT-60 for the Terrier part and BT-55 for the Orion part. I will have to measure and see if the proportions are close to the rocket on static display. With a BT-60 for the Terrier part, it’s gonna be pretty tall I think. Gotta’ do the arithmetic.
 
The Quest kit used a BT-50 for the Orion and a Quest 35 mm tube (approximately BT-55) for the Terrier. It's a single stage, and came with some nose clay. It's heavy enough to need a C6 or something stronger (composite) to get good rail speed; it is likely to go cruise missile on a B6 (but not go very far). Converting it to two stage is a challenge, and the added weight of an 18 mm sustainer motor will force you to a 24 mm booster motor in order to achieve safe rod exit speed.

Ask me how I know. Go ahead, I dare you, ask me.
 
jqavins said:
The Quest kit used a BT-50 for the Orion and a Quest 35 mm tube (approximately BT-55) for the Terrier. It's a single stage, and came with some nose clay. It's heavy enough to need a C6 or something stronger (composite) to get good rail speed; it is likely to go cruise missile on a B6 (but not go very far). Converting it to two stage is a challenge, and the added weight of an 18 mm sustainer motor will force you to a 24 mm booster motor in order to achieve safe rod exit speed.

Ask me how I know. Go ahead, I dare you, ask me.
Click to expand...
OK, how do you know? ;-)
 
brockrwood said:
OK, how do you know? ;-)
Click to expand...
I just need a BT-55 to BT-50 transition, a short, hollow transition, and a lot of clay for the nose, and I am in business. I have the body tubes, balsa, centering rings, et cetera, thanks to my secret santas! I think I will set the bar low and just go for a single stage model, to keep the frustration level down. With the nose cone clay, this is probably a C6-only model. Or some sort of Quest Q-Jet with C-power. Oooo! Maybe one of those 18mm Q-Jet D’s! I can officially start my composite rocket motor era!
 
brockrwood said:
I think this rocket is a Terrier-Lynx!
Click to expand...
That may be a correct identification, but stacking a lynx on top of a terrier just ain't right.

brockrwood said:
OK, how do you know? ;-)
Click to expand...
Once upon a time I crashed a Terrier-Orion (TO) by using the B6 that the package recommended. The sustainer was trashed, but I re-used the booster to replace the booster of my other TO, the one I was converting to two stage, that was blown up in a ground test. I hadn't quite completed the rebuild when it got placed under the virtual pile of life until last year.

Only then did I realize that the booster was going to need to be modified to take a D12-0, as I had not previously considered rod exit speed. So, I made the modification, then sacrificed the second booster to the second ground test just this past weekend.

Since the kit is OOP, I'll rebuild the booster with a BT-60, which changes the scale enough that I'll have to change the name as it no will longer really look like a TO. But damnit, I will make this two stage sounding rocket work. As God as my witness, Scarlet, I will make this work!
 
jqavins said:
That may be a correct identification, but stacking a lynx on top of a terrier just ain't right.

Once upon a time I crashed a Terrier-Orion (TO) by using the B6 that the package recommended. The sustainer was trashed, but I re-used the booster to replace the booster of my other TO, the one I was converting to two stage, that was blown up in a ground test. I hadn't quite completed the rebuild when it got placed under the virtual pile of life until last year.

Only then did I realize that the booster was going to need to be modified to take a D12-0, as I had not previously considered rod exit speed. So, I made the modification, then sacrificed the second booster to the second ground test just this past weekend.

Since the kit is OOP, I'll rebuild the booster with a BT-60, which changes the scale enough that I'll have to change the name as it no will longer really look like a TO. But damnit, I will make this two stage sounding rocket work. As God as my witness, Scarlet, I will make this work!
Click to expand...
NASA needs your determination and ingenuity on their sounding rocket team at Wallops!
 
Gap staging is not too difficult. Here is an article from 1997 on how to do it.
And an OR design for a gap staged Sparrow-Arcas.
 

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If you want a NIKE booster, If you hurry, you should be able to find the Estes NIKE Smoke kit still around, they are OOP, but I just snapped up 5 of them a couple days ago. (Useful if you like building NIKE based rockets!)

The NIKE M5 Booster was *pretty* much the same for all NIKE sounding rockets, a notable exception was the Fin-Can.
3 or 4. (e.g. AJAX used 3... and despite what anyone says, AJAX *WAS* sounding rocket.... it made a big 'Boom' sound when the warhead exploded near a pesky Soviet Bomber ;) (Yes, as a matter of fact I do think I am funny!)

Ok, Ok seriously, that is/was a good kit if you needed a NIKE M5 motor. And since it doesn't use TTW fin construction, you can build it for 3 or 4 fins.

The small 'lip' atop the booster is cast into the Smoke's Nosecone, but just cut a small piece off a next-larger Body tube. (Althogh most folks would not even notice that detail!

With a BT-60 Airframe, you have the room to put an small ebay in the booster to fire e-recovery.

I myself am building a NIKE-NIKE Smoke, LPR first, then going to do a HPR in 4" or bigger. And since the boosters are all the same, they will be interchangeable with any Sustainer that was used, and that I wish to build! (Flight computer have to be programmed correctly, but anyway...)

Good luck! Have fun, and as we say in the GA world: Keep the Shiny side UP!
 

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