LOC IV

[lstmysock11]

Hi all

Does any one know where I might find this kit. Seems this kit and a lot of others seem to be sold out. Looking for this kit or something close to build for a level 1 cert.

Andrew

 

[mtnmanak]

Wildman shows it in stock. May even go on sale later today.

 

[lstmysock11]

Thanks, besides the kit what else would I need to build it? Will keep an eye to see if it goes on sale.

Thanks. I see some kits they want you to use two part epoxy and another showes using wood glue. Also saw a older video with this kit advising to use a diffrent shock cord. What is recomended for this kit?

 

[dr wogz]

Welcome Andrew

There are many rockets that fit the 'L1' requirement.. Look also at Madcow Rocketry for choices & ideas.. Scott Binder too..

A lot of teh stores / online shops will be having 'Black Friday ' sales soon.. Wildman Rocketry is always a good place for special, but you need to be a "member" to take advantage (Like joining a discount club)

Depending on where you are, you may be able to order, or go pick up something..

SBR rocketry:
https://www.fusionrocket.biz/

 

[tim cubbedge]

Thanks, besides the kit what else would I need to build it? Will keep an eye to see if it goes on sale.

Thanks. I see some kits they want you to use two part epoxy and another showes using wood glue. Also saw a older video with this kit advising to use a diffrent shock cord. What is recomended for this kit?

That was my L1 rocket. I used the supplied shock cord. Think I used wood glue for everything except the fillets in which I used 2 part epoxy. The only other thing you may consider is some sort of motor retention. Several choices out there.

 

[lstmysock11]

A lot of teh stores / online shops will be having 'Black Friday ' sales soon.. Wildman Rocketry is always a good place for special, but you need to be a "member" to take advantage (Like joining a discount club)

Member of what? The forums here or something with wildman rocketry? Discount club?

 

[lstmysock11]

That was my L1 rocket. I used the supplied shock cord. Think I used wood glue for everything except the fillets in which I used 2 part epoxy. The only other thing you may consider is some sort of motor retention. Several choices out there.

So it does not come with a motor retention thing? Or what is it called? What did you use? Trying to find the information out now before I end up buying stuff that might not work.

 

[RocketTree]

You can build the LOC IV with wood glue, but epoxy would be suitable as well.

The kit should include motor retention in the form of Z clips. Definitely not my favorite system, but it works. If you have extra cash, an Aeropack retainer would be an upgrade and could likely be done later if you leave enough motor mount tube exposed. The included heavy duty nylon shock cord is fine.

 

[mtnmanak]

These are a great new option from Launch Lab and they will be on sale on Friday. I think they will become my "go to" retainers for 38mm MMT cardboard & plywood rockets since they are cheaper than the aluminum versions from other vendors and they should be pretty lightweight.

https://www.launchlabrocketry.com/shop/p/38mmplasticmotorretainerblue

 

[user 35280]

The LOC Precision website has great information about that rocket kit.

https://locprecision.com/apps/store-locator

 

[dr wogz]

Member of what? The forums here or something with wildman rocketry? Discount club?

Wildman Rocketry (the web store) offers a 'club'; a discount club. Membership is $30 a year, but you get some great deals & a certain % off everything site-wide. Especially today [Wednesday Nov 24th]: the pre-black Friday sale!! Only available to members. But his regular BF sale is this week-end. Many of us are a part of his "club", for the deals & discounts..

Our club takes advantage of this sale for our yearly motor needs. and we have our orders shipped to one location. So, we save: by being a member, by being a member on Black Friday, by combining all our orders into one shipment [reduced shipping charge] and one HAZMAT fee for everyone! (Well, one per box)

His membership pays for itself if you buy lots; motors, and if you plan to buy a big kit.. but likely won't amount to much on just a simple kit..

https://wildmanrocketry.com/collections/wildman-club/products/wm03-wildman-club

 

[lstmysock11]

Wildman Rocketry (the web store) offers a 'club'; a discount club. Membership is $30 a year, but you get some great deals & a certain % off everything site-wide. Especially today [Wednesday Nov 24th]: the pre-black Friday sale!! Only available to members. But his regular BF sale is this week-end. Many of us are a part of his "club", for the deals & discounts..

Thanks I figured that out when I poked around the website a little more

 

[tim cubbedge]

So it does not come with a motor retention thing? Or what is it called? What did you use? Trying to find the information out now before I end up buying stuff that might not work.

You can build the LOC IV with wood glue, but epoxy would be suitable as well.

The kit should include motor retention in the form of Z clips. Definitely not my favorite system, but it works. If you have extra cash, an Aeropack retainer would be an upgrade and could likely be done later if you leave enough motor mount tube exposed. The included heavy duty nylon shock cord is fine.

I bought mine several years ago when Barry owned LOC. At that time no motor retention included. Guess that’s changed since Jason bought LOC.

 

[lstmysock11]

Welcome Andrew

There are many rockets that fit the 'L1' requirement.. Look also at Madcow Rocketry for choices & ideas.. Scott Binder too..

A lot of teh stores / online shops will be having 'Black Friday ' sales soon.. Wildman Rocketry is always a good place for special, but you need to be a "member" to take advantage (Like joining a discount club)

Depending on where you are, you may be able to order, or go pick up something..

SBR rocketry:
https://www.fusionrocket.biz/

For these other companies what rockets are good for level 1 cert? Only one site so far had a listening of rockets listed for level 1 cert.

 

[teepot]

I'm going to guess you have joined a club. Have you talked to the experienced flyers form your club. Someone could help you as a mentor. I've help two new members with guidance on their L1 kits. We talked about how to build the kits, motor selection and chute requirements.

 

[lstmysock11]

I have messaged two diffrent clubs here in Virginia. One barley responded and the other club I am planing to go to their next launch on Dec 11. That would be Northern Virginia but the other club listed in King george when I asked about joining, Well several days later yet to hear back.

 

[JohnCoker]

Long ago I made a video on building this kit for level 1 certification. (Some of the improvements I suggested are now part of the kit.)
http://jcrocket.com/certify-level-1.shtml

 

[user 35280]

Are you a member of the NAR or Tripoli?
https://www.nar.org/
http://www.tripoli.org/

 

[lstmysock11]

Are you a member of the NAR or Tripoli?
https://www.nar.org/
http://www.tripoli.org/

Recently joined NAR

 

[user 35280]

I have messaged two diffrent clubs here in Virginia. One barley responded and the other club I am planing to go to their next launch on Dec 11. That would be Northern Virginia but the other club listed in King george when I asked about joining, Well several days later yet to hear back.

https://www.nar.org/local_club/northern-virginia-association-of-rocketry-novaar-205/
https://www.nar.org/local_club/northern-neck-rocketry-society-nnrs-822/
https://www.nar.org/local_club/heart-of-virginia-association-of-rocketry-hovar-704/

 

[tsmith1315]

I am planing to go to their next launch on Dec 11.

I would suggest waiting to buy anything until you attend the launch. If not, you're guaranteed to see something there that you'll wished you had purchased instead. And if the launch has an onsite vendor, you can help support them with your purchase.

 

[lstmysock11]

https://www.nar.org/local_club/northern-virginia-association-of-rocketry-novaar-205/
https://www.nar.org/local_club/northern-neck-rocketry-society-nnrs-822/
https://www.nar.org/local_club/heart-of-virginia-association-of-rocketry-hovar-704/

I am planing on going to the next launch for Northern virginia association, I had reached out to NNRS but when I asked about joining they stopped responding. So not very helpful to say the least.

 

[lstmysock11]

I would suggest waiting to buy anything until you attend the launch. If not, you're guaranteed to see something there that you'll wished you had purchased instead. And if the launch has an onsite vendor, you can help support them with your purchase.

I am planing on waiting to go to the launch first and see for myself.

 

[tsmith1315]

I am planing on waiting to go to the launch first and see for myself.

Have you been to a launch with high power rockets before?

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I looked on the LOC web site and see several 4" classic kits still in stock. T-LOC 4", Patriot 4", 4" V2, Mystic Buzz, Expediter, Ultimate (29 mm only), and the 4" Cyclotron. Most will need adapters from 54 mm to either 29 or 38 mm, depending on your motor choice. I would recommend at least 240 N-s with any of these rockets.

 

[drgarymartinez]

I have mentored several students with their Level 1 certification. I have found that the Apogee Zephyr to be a fabulous level 1 kit with the best detailed instructions. I strongly recommend Rocketpoxy a two part epoxy for HPRs. All you will need to get is a motor and a aero pack motor retainer. Tim and his crew at Apogee are their to help you with any issues or questions. Welcome and best wishes, Dr. G.

 

[Michael L]

Finding a club and mentor's is going to help you a lot. I built a LOC Graduator first, then the LOC IV. The goal was always to get an L1 cert. I didn't rush that. I watched John Coker's videos quite a few times before I even bought the kit. I watched my first launch 10.3.20. I spent the winter building the Graduator and LOC IV. I was going to try to cert on 4.3.21 but something wasn't right with the tracking / flight computers. I don't recall what it was but it caused me to abort. Cert flight was 5.1.21. I chose to build the two rockets for high power. I followed John Coker's methods very closely. As closely as inexperience would let me. The LOC IV was always intended to be for Cert Level 1 and my testing base for as long as it survived. The Graduator always gets a mod first. Both now have redundant dual deploy with a tracker in the nose. One of these days I should launch the Graduator

Here's one of the few build photos that I have. Don't be me and not photograph the build process. I chose this one for a reason. The first fin isn't epoxied yet (I used Bob Smith 30m epoxy on this build) but eventually all three fins were epoxied in. Sharp eyed builders will see the mistake right away. The forward motor tube centering ring wasn't epoxied in this photo but eventually the forward and middle centering ring and fins were epoxied in just like you see here. See that little hole, 1/4" to be exact? The hole is for the eyebolt that the shock cord attaches to. It was easy enough to reach in from the top to install it but attaching the washer and nut was a pita. To add insult to injury, I did the same thing with the Graduator but I didn't catch it until after I built the LOC IV. That took some creative thinking to fix. Thankfully I caught it before epoxied the aft centering ring in, Obviously I caught it in the LOC IV before the middle centering ring was epoxied in. I've since switched to a zipperless coupling arrangement in the sustainer on the LOC IV. The Graduator won't get anymore mods. I think that's an Aeropak retainer on the end.

I launchd a lot of Estes rockets on C and D motors prior to launching high power. I lost a few when I max'd out the motor, flew with too much wind, and made a few other mistakes. I'm fortunate to have a lot of room to "play". Technically I only lost two but I can still see one of them. Itives in the neighbor's tree about 1/2 mile from me. One taught me the valuable lesson of securing the shock cord for the nose cone extremely well. I never have gotten used to the Estes folded paper rubber band shock cord method and when you don't do it right the nose cone drifts gently on the breeze never to be seen again and the sustainer gracefully arcs away. Here's some of the victims The purple rocket on the left is 3D printed parts and a tube. Not a kit.

Here the Graduator and LOC IV are together

Here is the LOC before it's first launch. It has an AV bay and is therefore just a tad longer than the original.

Flight 3. The chute has been changed. The avionics are beefed up. Still sporting gray primer. It took forever to return to earth but it was about 300 feet away when it did

Current version of the avionics bay and tracking bay for the nose cone. I copied one of our L3 guys avionics installations. He's very meticulous and he never has a problem with recovery. Redundant dual deploy per club rules (and the BLM). It's flown twice with no problems. The purple and white circuit boards are some power distribution boards that I had made. On the back side there is a pair of LiPo batteries (redundant power), total of 4 batteries in the large bay. The boards let me plug my switch, batteries, and flight computers in with JST connectors rather than have a kludge of wire twisted together.

Everything about the builds and changes has had some form of mentorship associated with it. The biggest point that I want to make with all this is that you can build and launch or use it as a platform to learn about HP rocketry. Also - don't get in a hurry. Oh! One thing... I certified L1 with motor deploy. Somehow they missed that I didn't have redundant dual deploy, only a tracker. I much prefer dual deploy, To each their own.

 

[dr wogz]

For these other companies what rockets are good for level 1 cert? Only one site so far had a listening of rockets listed for level 1 cert.

If you are going for your L1, you should be able to answer this yourself!

"Know what the numbers mean"

L1 requires you launch an H or I motor. Some are 29mm, some are 38mm. From this, we know what motors are available, and we know we want something that isn't a "kick".. Let's aim for an H128 (or there abouts..) SO, we know anything over 10 or 15lbs is going to be too much. 3-5lbs is ideal. There are more 'H' motors in 29mm than 38, so it's likely better to look at 29mm. (You can use a 38mm and use an adapter to 'go down' to 29mm..)

We also know most "HPR" rockets typically start at about 3" in diameter, and go up from there.. and we know we the larger the diameter, the greater the frontal area, therefore more drag.. and a 4" tube is pretty common..

SO, having said the 2 above: Any 3" dia or greater, 3lbs, 29mm Mount will suit an L1 attempt. There are some other factors that can help you decide, but these are personal choices.. fin shape, design, complexity, materials, etc..

But let's judge a few "suggestions":
LOC Weasle:
skinning body & light, so it'll go high!

Lock 7" Goblin
Too heavy

Loc 4" Goblin:
4" dia, light, and has an adjustable motor system, of which one is a 29mm. This is likely a good choice.. But it has no payload bay. Needed?

A lot of these (especially Madcow) have Rocksim / Open Rocket files, so you can download teh file, and 'sim it' with the intended motors and see what kind of flight you can expect.


You could also use the Estes Leviathan on an H97..

FYI: I did my L1 on a Wildman Darkstar Jr.

 

[NateB]

FYI: I did my L1 on a Wildman Darkstar Jr.

I did too. I flew a Darkstar Jr "short" with just the booster and a nosecone. I used an adapter and flew a CTI H-133. It was an easy flight to 1533' and it was recovered by the away pads.

 

[lstmysock11]

I ended up contacting battlepark.org and they are the closest to me. I did not know about them until just recently because they are only listed under tripoli and do not believe they are listed under NAR. Anyway they are way closer to where I live, So I can go see a launch pretty soon and they will even have a vender there. Maybe Wildmans will have the LOC-IV on sale this weekend as it did not go on sale yesterday.