Der Big Red Max Build.

[Scott_650]

Bummer, do you know if you can get the T300 BT with slots?

I know the Estes PSII MDRM nose cone fits perfectly with the LOC 4” BT.

You’d need to contact BMS and ask if they do slots to order. But it’s doable yourself. Cutting fin slots is fairly simple - it looks a bit intimidating but if you measure and mark the tubes carefully then take your time, using SHARP blades (hobby knife or razor blades) it’s a good skill to acquire. Practice on some scrap tubes and you’ll be fine - I keep old kitchen wrap tubes around to practice different techniques on, like cutting, slotting, painting.

Here’s some info that could be useful:

https://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter165.pdf
http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search/label/Fin Slotting

 

[user 35280]

Does anyone have a RockSim file for this yet ? PLEASE......... TIA.

Rocketry Works has two design files on this link,
https://www.rocketryworks.com/der-big-red-max-plywood-fin-upgrade-set-of-3/

 

[RokitFlyr]

Rocketry Works has two design files on this link,
https://www.rocketryworks.com/der-big-red-max-plywood-fin-upgrade-set-of-3/

Thanks!

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

That is a great idea. I'm thinking I want to give that a try. I wonder if I can pick up the Styrene locally. Time to start looking. That would resolve the issue with the Fins on this kit and give them a bit more thickness to like the Mega DRM had.

Edit: Found some. have a kit in mind for these already. Thanks rklapp!

https://www.amazon.com/Evergreen-Scale-Models-White-Sheet/dp/B0006O5I8Y

Cool. Here's the one I ordered. I used it on the Citration Patriot clone I built. I didn't extend the styrene TTW. My cockatiel likes to bit the fins. He didn't find the styrene appetizing.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000WS9VK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Back_at_it]

Back with another update.

Applied a second very light coat of DAP wood filler to the fins then let dry. Sanded with 240, 400 and finally 600 grit. In the pic below you can see that 90% of the wood filler was removed during sanding. The Vanderburn fins were very high quality and fairly smooth. Very easy to finish.

Applied two light coats of Minwax sanding sealer and let that cure before wet sanding with 600 and 800 grit. The spirals on the body tube are very shallow and I feel like they will fill with primer.



After sanding the sealer I applied Bondo Brand spot putty to the fillets to fill any cracks before priming. The Stock Launch Lugs were installed at this time. The mating surfaces of the lug and body tube were lightly sanded then attached with TBII. I used a 3/16 rod to align the lugs. When taped to the body tube, the tension on the rod keeps the lugs from moving. Tape and rod were removed and fillets were done with TBII.



Time to install the motor retainer. The inside of the retainer has been roughed up using a 36 grit drum on a Dremel tool. This is intentionally left extremely rough as the scratches and divots in the plastic will retain epoxy when attached. The outside of the motor tube was also sanded with 100 grit to remove any stray glue that might have gotten on it during assembly.

The Motor retainer was attached using BSI 30 min epoxy. Epoxy was spread inside the motor retainer as well as around the outside of the motor tube. The excess epoxy was cleaned up using rubbing alcohol on a paper towel.



I have taken advantage of the unusually warm weather here to get this one in primer. I won't bore you with primer pics but the rocket is currently outside between it's second and third coats of SEM high build.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

View attachment 490978

Impressive in that most of my materials are in boxes.

Good job with the rocket. CWF is too messy for me. I prefer papering or styrene.

 

[Back_at_it]

Impressive in that most of my materials are in boxes.

Good job with the rocket. CWF is too messy for me. I prefer papering or styrene.

Agree completely and the DAP brand isn't like other brands. The powder it produces is very very light and gets everywhere. This is definitely something you want to sand outside. On the upside, It sands so easily that you could almost go straight to 400 grit. I only use the rougher stuff to knock off the high spots. Literally just a couple of passes then on to the finer grits.

I have a build coming that uses multiple piece fins that historically are problematic when built stock. Looking forward to trying the Styrene method on that build.

 

[user 35280]

You’d need to contact BMS and ask if they do slots to order. But it’s doable yourself. Cutting fin slots is fairly simple - it looks a bit intimidating but if you measure and mark the tubes carefully then take your time, using SHARP blades (hobby knife or razor blades) it’s a good skill to acquire. Practice on some scrap tubes and you’ll be fine - I keep old kitchen wrap tubes around to practice different techniques on, like cutting, slotting, painting.

Here’s some info that could be useful:

https://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter165.pdf
http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search/label/Fin Slotting

This is a great link for rocketry tools, etc.
https://www.payloadbay.com/index.php?page=Tools&action=SLOTGUIDEI also looked at the BMS tubing, etc. listing online and they do have the T300 available with slots.

 

[RokitFlyr]

OK, going to stir the pot here.......( asking forgiveness in advance )

The "new " Big Red Max confused me from the beginning. Estes reuse of kit names and/or #'s will do that. The original Big Red Max had an 18" BT and used the Red Max nosecone, fins, and decals. It only came in a starter set. Please correct if I'm wrong, ( HA, silly statement for this group, I know)

Sooo... this new version is really an upscale (close) of the Red Max. Still very cool and good on Estes.
An upscale of the Big Red Max to 3" would require a 32.986" body tube. 3" / 1.637" = 1.8326.

I'm planning to scratch build my "new" BRM with ply fins, rings, and 29mm mmt.
Ordered the tube and nose cone from Estes. Received the 4" MDRM nose cone by mistake. (packing error). Correct one is on the way, FREE! Estes customer service ROCKS!
Hmmm..what to do with that 4" nose cone......... ( "where the sun don't shine" is NOT an option )


anywhooo, just my $0.02
Cheers,
Mark

 

[user 35280]

Hmmm..what to do with that 4" nose cone

Make a stretched version of the MDRM.

 

[RokitFlyr]

Make a stretched version of the MDRM.

I scratch built a 4" Red Max upscale about 8 yrs. ago. ( before the MegaMax came out by a few yrs.)
4" LOC tube and nosecone, 1/4" ply fins and rings, 38mm mmt. I could stretch that I guess.
Still don't need the nosecone...

 

[Scott_650]

OK, going to stir the pot here.......( asking forgiveness in advance )

The "new " Big Red Max confused me from the beginning. Estes reuse of kit names and/or #'s will do that. The original Big Red Max had an 18" BT and used the Red Max nosecone, fins, and decals. It only came in a starter set. Please correct if I'm wrong, ( HA, silly statement for this group, I know)

Sooo... this new version is really an upscale (close) of the Red Max. Still very cool and good on Estes.
An upscale of the Big Red Max to 3" would require a 32.986" body tube. 3" / 1.637" = 1.8326.

I'm planning to scratch build my "new" BRM with ply fins, rings, and 29mm mmt.
Ordered the tube and nose cone from Estes. Received the 4" MDRM nose cone by mistake. (packing error). Correct one is on the way, FREE! Estes customer service ROCKS!
Hmmm..what to do with that 4" nose cone......... ( "where the sun don't shine" is NOT an option )


anywhooo, just my $0.02
Cheers,
Mark

The starter set #1403 Der Big Red Max was, basically, a redressed Citation Patriot with DRM fins. Though there are plenty of other 3/4FNC kits that could fit that model. An upsized #1403 DBRM sounds like a fun project.

It looks like the current leadership at Estes is attempting to rationalize the naming conventions - using Super and Big for upsized versions, for example Super Big Bertha (since Big Big Bertha doesn’t work very well), Der Big Red Max, Super Mars Snooper…wonder if we’ll ever see the return of a Mega anything? My Mega Mosquito is a pretty nifty rocket and a great small field flyer on big BP motors.

 

[RokitFlyr]

Possibly.
I scratch/upscaled the RedMax 8-10 yrs. ago before the MDRM came out.

Used LOC 4" tube and nosecone. 1/4" ply fins and rings, 38mm mmt.

 

[user 35280]

I scratch built a 4" Red Max upscale about 8 yrs. ago. ( before the MegaMax came out by a few yrs.)
4" LOC tube and nosecone, 1/4" ply fins and rings, 38mm mmt. I could stretch that I guess.
Still don't need the nosecone...

I have a AMW MDRM Clone and it has the LOC cone, but I’m building the Estes MDRM with their cone as I think it looks more accurate.
I want to build a 3” and 4” diameter version of the Estes Goblin as well. I have the 4” diameter LOC Goblin to finish too.

 

[user 35280]

The starter set #1403 Der Big Red Max was, basically, a redressed Citation Patriot with DRM fins. Though there are plenty of other 3/4FNC kits that could fit that model. An upsized #1403 DBRM sounds like a fun project.

It looks like the current leadership at Estes is attempting to rationalize the naming conventions - using Super and Big for upsized versions, for example Super Big Bertha (since Big Big Bertha doesn’t work very well), Der Big Red Max, Super Mars Snooper…wonder if we’ll ever see the return of a Mega anything? My Mega Mosquito is a pretty nifty rocket and a great small field flyer on big BP motors.

Was # 1977 ever just released as a rocket kit or was it just available as a starter set?

 

[RokitFlyr]

Was # 1977 ever just released as a rocket kit or was it just available as a starter set?

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[Back_at_it]

#1977 was only a starter set. At least I’ve never seen it as a stand-alone kit.

 

[Back_at_it]

I have a AMW MDRM Clone and it has the LOC cone, but I’m building the Estes MDRM with their cone as I think it looks more accurate.
I want to build a 3” and 4” diameter version of the Estes Goblin as well. I have the 4” diameter LOC Goblin to finish too.

I’m kicking around building a 3 inch goblin. Maybe I should skip the 3 inch and build a 4 inch instead.

I REALLY need to build another 4 inch MDRM. when I got out of rockets the last time a buddy offered to buy it as it was out of production at that point and I sold it.

 

[RokitFlyr]

I built a 3" Goblin 10 yrs. ago or so. Great fun!
Broke a fin last yr. hitting a rock. You know, the only rock for miles!
Need to build another.

LOC tube and nosecone. 1/8" ply fins and rings, 38mm mmt.

 

[user 35280]

#1977 was only a starter set. At least I’ve never seen it as a stand-alone kit.

I was thinking it was in the starter set as well, but I saw it listed on the JimZ website and it just seems like a rocket kit and doesn’t say anything about a starter set.
http://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/estes/es-1977.pdf

 

[RokitFlyr]

Well...the kit did come with instructions........DOH!

 

[K'Tesh]

I was thinking it was in the starter set as well, but I saw it listed on the JimZ website and it just seems like a rocket kit and doesn’t say anything about a starter set.
http://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/estes/es-1977.pdf

The original Der Big Red Max (1403) was part of a starter set... It came out in the 1978 Estes Catalog (shown with a white injection molded nosecone), and made its last appearance in 1982 (with a white blow molded nosecone). Apparently it was only sold with the BigFoot launch pad.

I wonder if a vendor like Walmart, Kaybee Toys or ToysᴙUs perhaps had the DBRM as a standalone kit?

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

Estes sells a 4” NC???

 

[DigBaddy]

Estes sells a 4” NC???

Yup. https://estesrockets.com/product/072415-pro-series-ii-4-plastic-nose-cone/

Also, 2", 2.5" and 3" PSII nosecones.

 

[RokitFlyr]

Estes sells a 4” NC???

I think he's referring the the BRM. As is this thread.

 

[K'Tesh]

Estes sells a 4” NC???

[EDIT] How did I miss BigDaddy's post that is nearly identical to mine? [/EDIT]

At this time they still sell the MDRM (4" nosecone).


https://estesrockets.com/product/072415-pro-series-ii-4-plastic-nose-cone/
As well as the 2", 2.5", and 3" nosecones from the PSII line of kits.

 

[Scott_650]

Yup. https://estesrockets.com/product/072415-pro-series-ii-4-plastic-nose-cone/

Also, 2", 2.5" and 3" PSII nosecones.

If only they still carried the PSII Nike Smoke nose cone…

 

[DigBaddy]

If only they still carried the PSII Nike Smoke nose cone…☹

Yeah, kind of a gap. It's surprising that with the parts they do have that some aren't kitted up. They clearly have a lot of those PSII parts. Motor tubes, retainers, shock cords, chutes, body tubes and nosecones. Fins are the piece preventing profits?

 

[RokitFlyr]

Which has nothing to do with Big Red Max.......
I'm done. Good luck on your builds.

Focus, Grasshopper..........

 

[Bruiser]

Este has the 3" and 4" DRM nose cones. Easiest way to find them on the site now seems to be typing 3" or 4" into the search...

-Bob