Questions about LDRS and BALLS

[MetricRocketeer]

Hi TRF colleagues,

I have two questions please about the location and timing of LDRS and BALLS in 2022 and 2023, please.

As I understand it, LDRS 40 (that is, in 2022) will take place in Oregon 09-12 June 2022 in Oregon. Is that correct?

Second question, when and where will LDRS 41 (that is, in 2023) take place? Has that yet been determined?

Now to BALLS, which according to the Rocketry Glossary stands for "Big A** Load Lifting Suckers." When and where will that take place in 2022 and in 2023, if that has already been determined?

And one more question, please. My clear understanding is that the Tripoli Rocketry Association runs LDRS (which of course stands for "Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships"). But who runs BALLS? Is it the TRA or NAR, or is it a joint venture between the two?

Thank you very much.

Stanley

 

[FredA]

Balls is hosted by Tripoli Gerlach
LDRS is a year to year thing and the next year's location is announced at the end of the current launch - kinda like the Olympics.
So you won't know that info until 12-June 2022.

 

[manixFan]

The website for BALLS is:

http://ballslaunch.com
It lists the 2022 dates as Sept 23-25. The launch is hosted by Tripoli and run by a special prefecture - Tripoli Gerlach. The website has a lot of info. Think of LDRS as a big launch and spectators event. BALLS on the other hand discourages spectators and is geared for those projects that are really pushing the limits.


Tony

(click the 'ARRIVING JANUARY 1st, 2022' text to enter the website)

 

[MetricRocketeer]

Thank you @FredA and @manixFan. You answered my questions thoroughly. I appreciate it.

 

[dr wogz]

.. will take place in Oregon 09-12 June 2022 in Oregon.

Sure beats driving out to Oregon IL or Oregon OH..

I believe it'll be in Bend Oregon..

teh wife & I always joke about driving thru places with 'country' names.. or places that are clearly not the place you might think of.. London Ontario, Lebanon NH, Paris TX, etc..

 

[Steve Shannon]

Hi TRF colleagues,

I have two questions please about the location and timing of LDRS and BALLS in 2022 and 2023, please.

As I understand it, LDRS 40 (that is, in 2022) will take place in Oregon 09-12 June 2022 in Oregon. Is that correct?

Second question, when and where will LDRS 41 (that is, in 2023) take place? Has that yet been determined?

Now to BALLS, which according to the Rocketry Glossary stands for "Big A** Load Lifting Suckers." When and where will that take place in 2022 and in 2023, if that has already been determined?

And one more question, please. My clear understanding is that the Tripoli Rocketry Association runs LDRS (which of course stands for "Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships"). But who runs BALLS? Is it the TRA or NAR, or is it a joint venture between the two?

Thank you very much.

Stanley

NAR has its own large annual launches: National Sport Launch and one associated with its annual meeting which is called NARAM.
Both BALLS and LDRS are Tripoli events. NAR members are welcome of course, just as Tripoli members are welcome at NAR launches.

 

[FredA]

Technically - the OROC launch site (LDRS 40) is 3 miles west of Brothers, Oregon -- about 40 miles east of Bend on Hwy 20.
Nearest civilization is in Bend.

 

[Tim51]

Sure beats driving out to Oregon IL or Oregon OH..

I believe it'll be in Bend Oregon..

teh wife & I always joke about driving thru places with 'country' names.. or places that are clearly not the place you might think of.. London Ontario, Lebanon NH, Paris TX, etc..

It used to make me smile when North Americans referred to my city as 'London, England' or used terms like 'Paris, France'. Now I realise it's a sensible precaution: a while ago a shipment I'd ordered from the excellent MAC Performance Rocketry in NY went via London, Ontario, before eventually making it across the Atlantic. No offence intended to the good people of Ontario, of course. My faith in humanity is such that I imagine one day people will say 'Earth, Sun System' as opposed to, say, 'Earth, Gliese' etc ; )

 

[dr wogz]

@Tim51
My wife sent my aunt a Christmas card a few years ago. it came back as 'undelivered'.
The address is to Blyth, NE [North England; Durham county, north of Newcastle, east of Hexam... ]

The local post office saw it as Nebraska [NE]


(mum's from Newcastle, dad's from Whitby..)

 

[MetricRocketeer]

NAR has its own large annual launches: National Sport Launch and one associated with its annual meeting which is called NARAM.
Both BALLS and LDRS are Tripoli events. NAR members are welcome of course, just as Tripoli members are welcome at NAR launches.

Hi @Steve Shannon,

Thank you very much for that answer. That explained a lot.

But then I have one followup, please. What is the difference between BALLS and LDRS?

Stanley

 

[Tim51]

@Tim51

The address is to Blyth, NE [North England; Durham county, north of Newcastle, east of Hexam... ]

The local post office saw it as Nebraska [NE]


(mum's from Newcastle, dad's from Whitby..)

Both beautiful imho. Newcastle's a very handsome city, Whitby a gothic legend.

 

[manixFan]

Hi @Steve Shannon,

Thank you very much for that answer. That explained a lot.

But then I have one followup, please. What is the difference between BALLS and LDRS?

Stanley

I don't know if you were asking Steve directly, but since I'm in the neighborhood, I thought I'd answer: LDRS is a launch you can bring the whole family to and fly any kind of rocket from an Estes Mosquito to a Wildman Extreme. BALLS on the other hand is intended for flyers with projects that are pushing the edge of technology, motors, speed, etc., and are just as likely to run into issues than be successful. Spectators and children are strongly discouraged.

The other difference is that LDRS moves around and tries to cover the entire US over the years, while BALLS is always held at the Black Rock desert in Nevada. LDRS is also hosted by a local club, while BALLS is run by Tripoli Gerlach, whose members come from all around the country.

I've been to a fair number of both and they are indeed very different launches, with LDRS generally being much bigger in terms of people and the number of launches. But if you want to fly an R motor, or a 2 stage to over 100,000', BALLS is the place for you.


Tony

 

[MetricRocketeer]

I don't know if you were asking Steve directly, but since I'm in the neighborhood, I thought I'd answer: LDRS is a launch you can bring the whole family to and fly any kind of rocket from an Estes Mosquito to a Wildman Extreme. BALLS on the other hand is intended for flyers with projects that are pushing the edge of technology, motors, speed, etc., and are just as likely to run into issues than be successful. Spectators and children are strongly discouraged.

I've been to a fair number of both and they are indeed very different launches, with LDRS generally being much bigger in terms of people and the number of launches. But if you want to fly an R motor, or a 2 stage to over 100,000', BALLS is the place for you.


Tony

Thank you, @manixFan. That answers my question very well.

 

[Tim51]

What are the rules for international visiting fliers? Is it possible for rocketeers from the UK to purchase motors on site and fly at BALLS? (I've heard it once was, I'm checking if the same rules apply now). It's one of my rocketry goals on one of my future visits to the US to fly at a desert launch with a high waiver if at all possible (either BALLS or LDRS as appropriate). After posting on TRF for some years now it would be great to visit and fly with some of you.

 

[Steve Shannon]

What are the rules for international visiting fliers? Is it possible for rocketeers from the UK to purchase motors on site and fly at BALLS? (I've heard it once was, I'm checking if the same rules apply now). It's one of my rocketry goals on one of my future visits to the US to fly at a desert launch with a high waiver if at all possible (either BALLS or LDRS as appropriate). After posting on TRF for some years now it would be great to visit and fly with some of you.

International flyers fly at BALLS and LDRS frequently. Sometimes we have even gotten the ATF to write a nice letter to customs letting them know that the rocket that's being shipped into the country is allowed.

 

[Tim51]

International flyers fly at BALLS and LDRS frequently. Sometimes we have even gotten the ATF to write a nice letter to customs letting them know that the rocket that's being shipped into the country is allowed.

Thanks Steve that's great to know.

 

[MClark]

Now to BALLS, which according to the Rocketry Glossary stands for "Big A** Load Lifting Suckers."

This is not correct.
The phrase was tossed around for a year but it was never the original intent of the name.
BALLS is in the end of September to first day of October depending upon where the weekends fall.
I ran the launch for 18 years.

 

[MetricRocketeer]

This is not correct.
The phrase was tossed around for a year but it was never the original intent of the name.
BALLS is in the end of September to first day of October depending upon where the weekends fall.
I ran the launch for 18 years.

Hi @MClark,

Thank you for letting me know this.

Understand, please, that I was just quoting the Rocketry Glossary. Apparently, that information was not right. But now I know.

Actually, however, since we are on the topic, why is this word used?

Stanley

 

[MClark]

Actually, however, since we are on the topic, why is this word used?

The obvious below the belt reason.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I was at the first one in 1991. I was told it stood for "you got the balls to fly a K". it was K motor minimum when every one stopped to watch a J.
Later someone came up with the "Big..." Only later did it become the premier Ex motor showplace with an effectively unlimited waiver.
It was also held BEFORE Burning Man. Since Burning Man has gotten so large, it destroys the playa. Also, having the launch so late frontal weather has already started. Weather was, although hot, much better for launching. It's now a crap shoot.

 

[Tim51]

The obvious below the belt reason.

For the record, EARS stands for East Anglian Rocketry Society (East Anglia = Cambridgeshire, Suffolk and Norfolk) and there's also the Amateur Rocketry Society [of] England.

Between us we seem to have covered at least some of the essentials.

 

[Tim51]

I was at the first one in 1991. I was told it stood for "you got the balls to fly a K". it was K motor minimum when every one stopped to watch a J.
Later someone came up with the "Big..." Only later did it become the premier Ex motor showplace with an effectively unlimited waiver.
It was also held BEFORE Burning Man. Since Burning Man has gotten so large, it destroys the playa. Also, having the launch so late frontal weather has already started. Weather was, although hot, much better for launching. It's now a crap shoot.

Was the date for BALLS moved to accommodate 'Burning Man' ?

 

[downhill_D]

I completely misunderstood the Balls and LDRS launches. I thought BALLS was from the bowling ball competitions I had heard about from local shops in the late 90's. Launching a 16 lb. bowling ball and keeping it aloft on chute for as long as possible? This feed has answered so much about both launches I never knew.

 

[MClark]

We had started using the late September date before Burningman got big.
The weather is always a crapshoot whenever it is during the the year over the years there has been 100 degrees and there has snow. There has been three days dead calm and total blowouts. Recently smoke from forest fires has become an issue.
There was a BALLS launch before BALLS 1. It was a by invitation only and location was not publicly announced.

EVENT	SPONSOR	DATE	NOTES
BALLS 1	AEROPAC	August 19, 1991	One day event in conjunction with LDRS 10
FireBALLS 2	AEROPAC	August 17, 1992	One day event in conjunction with LDRS 11
FireBALLS 3	AEROPAC	September 6, 1993	One day event in conjunction with Aeronaut 4
FireBALLS 4	AEROPAC	July1994	Stand Alone
FireBALLS 5	AEROPAC	August 1995	One day event in conjunction with LDRS 14
BALLS 6	LTR	August 1996	Stand Alone
BALLS 7	AEROPAC	July 21-22, 1997	Held in conjunction with No-Balls on July 19-20
BALLS 8	AHPRA	August 1,2 & 3, 1998	Stand Alone
BALLS 9	AHPRA	September 1999	Stand Alone
BALLS 10	AHPRA	September 29 October 1, 2000	Stand Alone
BALLS Canceled Due To 9/11	2001	No Launch This Year
BALLS 11	AHPRA	September 29, 29 & 30, 2002	Stand Alone
BALLS 12	AHPRA	September 19, 20 & 21, 2003	Stand Alone
BALLS 13	AHPRA	September 10, 11 & 12, 2004	Stand Alone
BALLS 14	AHPRA	September 16, 17 & 18, 2005	Stand Alone
BALLS 15	AHPRA	September 20, 21 October 1, 2006	Stand Alone
BALLS 16	AHPRA	September 29,30 & 30, 2007	Stand Alone
BALLS 17	AHPRA	September 27, 29 & 29, 2008	Stand Alone
BALLS 18	AHPRA	October 2, 3 & 4, 2009	Stand Alone
BALLS 19	AHPRA	September 24,36 & 26, 2010	Stand Alone
BALLS 20	AHPRA	September 30 October 1, 2, 2011	Stand Alone
BALLS 21	AHPRA	September 20, 21 & 22, 2012	Stand Alone
BALLS 22	AHPRA	September 20, 21 & 22, 2013	Stand Alone
BALLS 23	AHPRA	September 19, 20 & 21, 2014	Stand Alone
BALLS 24	AHPRA	September 25, 26 & 27, 2015	Stand Alone
BALLS 25	TRIPOLI GERLACH	September 23, 24 & 25, 2016	Stand Alone
BALLS 26	TRIPOLI GERLACH	September 22, 23 & 24, 2017	Stand Alone
BALLS 27	TRIPOLI GERLACH	Septemeber 21, 22 & 23, 2018	Stand Alone
BALLS 28	TRIPOLI GERLACH	September 20, 21 & 22, 2019	Stand Alone
BALLS Canceled Due To Pandemic	2020	No Launch This Year
BALLS 29	TRIPOLI GERLACH	September 24, 25 & 26, 2021	Stand Alone
BALLS 30	TRIPOLI GERLACH	September 23, 24 & 25, 2022	Stand Alone

 

[MetricRocketeer]

Hi everyone,

So then, now that Burning Man has been raised, I have this question please.

I have heard of the Burning Man competition. And what is that? Who runs it (NAR or Tripoli, I guess are the two choices), when does it typically take place, and what is its relation to BALLS and LDRS.

Thank you.

Stanley

 

[Tim51]

Hi everyone,

So then, now that Burning Man has been raised, I have this question please.

I have heard of the Burning Man competition. And what is that? Who runs it (NAR or Tripoli, I guess are the two choices), when does it typically take place, and what is its relation to BALLS and LDRS.

Thank you.

Stanley

Burning Man Festivsl is nothing to do with rocketry. See Wikipedia.

 

[MetricRocketeer]

Thank you for explaining that, @Tim51.

 

[manixFan]

I completely misunderstood the Balls and LDRS launches. I thought BALLS was from the bowling ball competitions I had heard about from local shops in the late 90's. Launching a 16 lb. bowling ball and keeping it aloft on chute for as long as possible? This feed has answered so much about both launches I never knew.

The bowling ball loft was at LDRS, not BALLS. It was a somewhat worrisome sounding event but the pads were far enough away that I don’t recall it feeling unsafe. The biggest challenge seemed to be keeping the chute attached to the bowling ball.

Even though I know the name of the launch (Balls) isn’t an acronym, I still always capitalize it. It just seems less likely to cause grief that way. For example, when I put it on the family calendar, 'BALLS Launch’ looks better than the alternative. Same when I’m using it in a post or group email.

The thing about BALLS that sets it apart from most other launches is its remote location. The launch site is about 3 hours from Reno and it's nearly 10 hours from Vegas. Plus once out at the launch site, if you don't have what you need, you are pretty much stuck unless you can borrow it from someone else in your group or at the launch. Many also camp at the site in either tents or campers, which is another set of issues since there are no services (water, sewer, or electricity). Fortunately there is a food vendor and some porta-potties, which does make it easier.

For a family vacation that includes a lot of rockets, go to LDRS; for that minimum diameter rocket pushing Mach 3 to 50,000', go to BALLS.


Tony

 

[Tim51]

The bowling ball loft was at LDRS, not BALLS. It was a somewhat worrisome sounding event but the pads were far enough away that I don’t recall it feeling unsafe. The biggest challenge seemed to be keeping the chute attached to the bowling ball.

Even though I know the name of the launch (Balls) isn’t an acronym, I still always capitalize it. It just seems less likely to cause grief that way. For example, when I put it on the family calendar, 'BALLS Launch’ looks better than the alternative. Same when I’m using it in a post or group email.

The thing about BALLS that sets it apart from most other launches is its remote location. The launch site is about 3 hours from Reno and it's nearly 10 hours from Vegas. Plus once out at the launch site, if you don't have what you need, you are pretty much stuck unless you can borrow it from someone else in your group or at the launch. Many also camp at the site in either tents or campers, which is another set of issues since there are no services (water, sewer, or electricity). Fortunately there is a food vendor and some porta-potties, which does make it easier.

For a family vacation that includes a lot of rockets, go to LDRS; for that minimum diameter rocket pushing Mach 3 to 50,000', go to BALLS.


Tony

Thanks for the advice. I've read the BALLS webpage advice on various occasions, to get a handle on what's involved, and I've talked with a few Brits who've been to BALLS in the past. Whichever way (LDRS or BALLS) it will be an adventure for me (I've never been west of Philadelphia). But I think I'd prefer a smaller event than the bigger crowds of LDRS, and I'd like to experience camping in the desert. There's a couple of projects (still in my head) that whilst relatively low and slow by some regular high fliers' standards would be impossible to fly this side of the pond.

 

[LANZA COLINA]

The Utah Prefecture of Tripoli has been looking at a launch site near Moab, UT for a launch next year that potentially could have a great waiver. If desert camping is what you're after it's hard to beat the Moab area with all of the beautiful scenery around there. It probably wouldn't be as long of a launch as something like BALLS or LDRS.
Many clubs have local launches that Tripoli and NAR members are always welcome at. I've been to launches at Black Rock twice now as well as LDRS this last year on the Salt Flats in Utah and both locations were amazing. The launches at Black Rock were not BALLS launches and were much smaller with only around 30-40 people. Both were fun in their own ways.
Just wanted to give a couple more options if LDRS or BALLS were not exactly what you were looking for. Several people from my local club have been to Airfest and told me stories about how much they enjoyed it. It is much more like an unofficial LDRS and several times has hosted LDRS. They always put on a great event and you can always meet with nearly every vendor at a launch like that.