Hang On a Minute!

[jqavins]

Joe, me thinks you think too much!!!

Everyone needs a hobby. To wit:

Well, I was hasty. We do turn lamps on and off. I was thinking more about flipping the toggle switch, but I forgot lamps. My bad.

Ah. There are other ways in which "turn" is used without a spinning object or one changing it course. To change thing or the condition of a thing, i.e. "That nose dive turned my rocket into a pile of scrap."

Also, always good for pondering is the endless conflict between expressions and quantities the naturally move in opposite directions, rendering the language ambiguous. Example: "Turn up the air conditioning". I was also just reading about one of my personal pet peeves, the fact that "cool" light is higher temperature.

That's an example of a broader subject, that of the really odd use of directional prepositions. If I want firewood, I pick a tree, I cut it down, then I cut it up. To slow up and to slow down are the same thing; to speed up is the opposite, and there is no "speed down".

Actually it was more that it implies both a new product and an improved (or worse) product at the same time, which isn't possible. I think it's supposed to mean "New Version and Improved Over Previous" (where the reference is to the current and former rather just current), but that doesn't flow well.

OK, good point. "Modified for the sake of improvement" doesn't exactly slide right off the tongue. Also, what Bat-Mite said; it can't be improved unless it is a new version; it can be [a] new [version] and not improved, but it can't be improved if it's not a new version.

It's actually a case of semantics for me...

Indeed. "A new thing" and "a new version of a thing" are each unambiguous phrases. "New" (in this context) is ambiguous, as it could mean either of the above. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the copy writers on that one.

Here's one that has always stuck in my craw. "Buy one, get one free."

If you have to buy one to get the second one, then the second one is not free. You are getting two for half-price. Unless you can say, "I'll skip buying the first one and just take the free one," then it isn't free.

Likewise, "New size - get 50% more free!" Nope, that extra 50% is not free. They have reduced the unit price, but unless you can scoop out the extra 50% and take it home at no charge, then it isn't free.

My wife thinks I'm totally wrong on this. Thoughts?

Oh, heck yeah. Even worse is when they shorten it to "Buy one get one". A store says that and then you walk out with only the single item. Why? You bought one, and you got one.

 

[Lee]

Expanding specific phrases beyond their original use such as a leader addressing a group and says “we’re gonna “weed out” the “rotten apples”.



Growing up, I had to “weed out” some terms from my coal cracker upbringing such as pop (soda), gum band (rubber band), davenport (sofa), tin foil (aluminum foil).

It’s as easy as “shooting fish in a barrel”. Who shoots fish in a barrel?

 

[Bat-mite]

It’s as easy as “shooting fish in a barrel”. Who shoots fish in a barrel?

The Mythbusters

 

[KenECoyote]

more than one way to skin a cat? WTH? lol

 

[KenECoyote]

Don't want to "beat a dead horse" , but I feel that the "new and improved" phrase was so used that we're kind of desensitized to it and just accept it. If it was correct usage, it should apply to any other produced good.

For example. my "new and improved" car...I got it used in 2012, but improved it this year, so it fits the same common usage of the term:

However I doubt I can list it as "New"

 

[Funkworks]

"Old and improved!" would seem like a great slogan for some kind of refurbishing or used product company. Very catchy. Love it.

 

[dr wogz]

"If I may be Frank..."

who'se Frank and why do I want to be him, for this particular moment / subject / issue..

 

[KenECoyote]

Don't want to "beat a dead horse" , but I feel that the "new and improved" phrase was so used that we're kind of desensitized to it and just accept it. If it was correct usage, it should apply to any other produced good.

For example. my "new and improved" car...I got it used in 2012, but improved it this year, so it fits the same common usage of the term:

However I doubt I can list it as "New"

Thinking things over some more, I see both sides and can understand how it can be perceived/interpreted differently depending on perspective. This actually falls in line with the theme of this thread. Good to hear about other phrases and learn about them!

 

[Bat-mite]

"If I may be Frank..."

who'se Frank and why do I want to be him, for this particular moment / subject / issue..

No smiley, but you're joking right?

 

[dr wogz]

Things that have become obsolete in our lifetimes, but continue to be said:

• Hang up the phone.
• Dial the phone.
• To "film" something (except in Hollywood).
• Broken record.
• Turn on/off the lights.

Others?

some local saying for these, her ein Montreal /Quebec, are derived from their French equivalent.

SO, we here say:
Close / open the light (and that bugs the $%^& outta me!)
Hold the line (the H is usually silent, and 'th' is pronounced with a hard 'D')

 

[Bat-mite]

Close / open the light (and that bugs the $%^& outta me!)

That's fine if "close" means "turn it on" and "open" means "turn it off." You have to close the circuit to get power across the filament, and likewise open the circuit to prevent power from crossing the filament.

 

[KenECoyote]

Heard on the news recently: "Let's go to the video tape!"
Still heard on social media/YouTube/Tiktok: "videotape this"

 

[boomtube-mk2]

The proof may not be in the pudding, but the data is in the peanut butter.

But if you try and feed peanut butter into a computer it will inevitably jam*.


*My personal favorite was Smucker's, Apricot Pineapple which Smucker's stopped making a couple of years ago.

 

[Mushtang]

"Buy one, get one free."

I knOW!! That one bugs me too. I think it makes the most sense if it's "Buy two, get one free" because you'll end up with two but only pay for one.

 

[dr wogz]

That's fine if "close" means "turn it on" and "open" means "turn it off." You have to close the circuit to get power across the filament, and likewise open the circuit to prevent power from crossing the filament.

open the light = turn it on
close the light = turn it off..

"Open the ... " is used to 'turn on' a few things..

"Open the TV"

 

[Lee]

Once in a blue moon

He is driving me up the wall

Hold your horses

 

[jqavins]

Close / open the light (and that bugs the $%^& outta me!)

That one's from an obsolete if not archaic root. To light up or put out a gas light, one opens or closes a valve. Other remnants of that include how the Brits call vacuum tubes "valves", and how we Americans (and other English speakers as far as I know) call digital electronics fundamental devices, and the controlling terminals on FETs, "gates". (I assume there are other non-electronic examples, but these are the ones I know.)

There's a physical remnant too. The parts used to put lamps together are ¼" NPT fittings. That's because those were used for the gas in gas lights, and early electric lighting was often installed by running wires through the existing gas lines.

Once in a blue moon

He is driving me up the wall

Hold your horses

"Once in a blue moon" I understand, if the name of an event can be a stand in for the period of time between such events. "Hold your horses" I understand, if the thing about firing cannon is real, but it has the feel of something apocryphal. For "Driving me up the wall" I've got nothing.

But how about "A month of Sundays"? (Ice cream with toppings for thirty consecutive days? )

 

[Bat-mite]

"Once in a blue moon" I understand, if the name of an event can be a stand in for the period of time between such events. "Hold your horses" I understand, if the thing about firing cannon is real, but it has the feel of something apocryphal. For "Driving me up the wall" I've got nothing.

"Driving me up the wall" means "I'm trying so hard to get away from you that I have recourse but to climb the wall (to escape)."

But how about "A month of Sundays"? (Ice cream with toppings for thirty consecutive days? )

In the old days with blue laws, Sundays were slow days during which not much happened. So a month of Sunday would be a really slow, monotonous period of time.

 

[Funkworks]

I had to look up the expression "computer/software bug"

"In 1946 ... operators traced an error in the Mark II to a moth trapped in a relay, coining the term bug. This bug was carefully removed and taped to the log book. Stemming from the first bug, today we call errors or glitches in a program a bug."

"The operators who found it ... were familiar with the engineering term and amusedly kept the insect with the notation "First actual case of bug being found."... This log book, complete with attached moth, is part of the collection of the Smithsonian Natural Museum of american History."

So the expression "bug" is used even though everyone knows it's wrong. Just for fun I guess.

 

[Bat-mite]

I had to look up the expression "computer/software bug"

"In 1946 ... operators traced an error in the Mark II to a moth trapped in a relay, coining the term bug. This bug was carefully removed and taped to the log book. Stemming from the first bug, today we call errors or glitches in a program a bug."

"The operators who found it ... were familiar with the engineering term and amusedly kept the insect with the notation "First actual case of bug being found."... This log book, complete with attached moth, is part of the collection of the Smithsonian Natural Museum of american History."
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So the expression "bug" is used even though everyone knows it's wrong. Just for fun I guess.

Likewise we say that a computer "crashed," which can only literally work if the drive head in a hard drive touches the disk surface (literally, the head crashes into the disk). But people use it any time a computer stops working.

 

[Mushtang]

So to "have one's cake and eat it too" (the common saying) is nothing, but to "eat one's cake and have it too" (the correct saying) shows the contradiction.

I LOVE a good pedantic debate.

Your first example that you think is nothing, would be nothing IF it was "have one's cake and eat it", but the inclusion of the word "too" is what makes it something that doesn't work. You can't have your cake and ALSO eat it, nor can you eat your cake and ALSO have it. Both orders are wrong.

 

[dr wogz]

That one's from an obsolete if not archaic root. To light up or put out a gas light, one opens or closes a valve. Other remnants of that include how the Brits call vacuum tubes "valves", and how we Americans (and other English speakers as far as I know) call digital electronics fundamental devices, and the controlling terminals on FETs, "gates". (I assume there are other non-electronic examples, but these are the ones I know.)

for my part, I think it is the French - English translation.. We say 'turn on' they say 'Ouvrir' (which is 'open'..) and it's usually those who are French or from a French / Francophone back-ground..

But I do like your description. didn't think of it that way!

 

[Aslansmonkey]

I have one that may be more obscure. My son and grandson frequently have this exchange...

Either One: "Guess what?"
Other One: "Chicken butt!"

I never heard that before and thought they were just being goofy, but when I asked them they said they got it from...somewhere. So I looked it up. Turns out the exchange is older than I am (and I refuse to admit to that amount).

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2016/07/know-chicken-butt/

 

[Funkworks]

Whenever I hear that "have-vs-eat" cake expression, I always wonder "why in the world would I have a cake and not eat it?" The expression assumes one wants both, but I never do. I most definitely want to eat it. So the expression never really models a real-life situation. IMO.

 

[RFMan]

for my part, I think it is the French - English translation.. We say 'turn on' they say 'Ouvrir' (which is 'open'..) and it's usually those who are French or from a French / Francophone back-ground..

But I do like your description. didn't think of it that way!

Most early switches were knife switches, and they were opened/closed. That terminology is still used in circuit analysis, where the schematic symbol for a switch resembles a knife switch...and we say, e.g., "A switch is open, then closed at time t=t0..."

 

[Bat-mite]

Most early switches were knife switches, and they were opened/closed. That terminology is still used in circuit analysis, where the schematic symbol for a switch resembles a knife switch...and we say, e.g., "A switch is open, then closed at time t=t0..."

But you seemed to miss the problem that for them, "open" in "on" and "closed" is "off," which is backwards.

 

[RFMan]

But you seemed to miss the problem that for them, "open" in "on" and "closed" is "off," which is backwards.

I lived in Ottawa for three years, and never heard that usage. Worked with a lot of Quebecois. Not sure why they say it backwards

 

[Lee]

I don't give a "rat's a**". Who would want one?
"I couldn't care less" Should be could care less

 

[jqavins]

for my part, I think it is the French - English translation.. We say 'turn on' they say 'Ouvrir' (which is 'open'..) and it's usually those who are French or from a French / Francophone back-ground.

But I do like your description. didn't think of it that way!

The meaning, I think, is the same. The only difference is that in English that usage died out if it was ever adopted, and in French it has hung on, at least to some extent. I'm still quite sure that's (at least in part?) the root of it. (Another possible part would be a covered lamp, and one "opens" the cover to shed light into the room. But I just made that up.)

"I couldn't care less" Should be could care less

Oh, no, my friend, I'm afraid you've got that one bass ackwards. "I couldn't care less" means I care so little that there is no possibility of caring less, i.e. I don't care at all. "I could care less" would mean that there is room for less caring, i.e. I do care at least a little. I hear people saying "I could care less" and that's another one that really bugs me.

 

[Steve Shannon]

The meaning, I think, is the same. The only difference is that in English that usage died out if it was ever adopted, and in French it has hung on, at least to some extent. I'm still quite sure that's (at least in part?) the root of it. (Another possible part would be a covered lamp, and one "opens" the cover to shed light into the room. But I just made that up.)

Oh, no, my friend, I'm afraid you've got that one bass ackwards. "I couldn't care less" means I care so little that there is no possibility of caring less, i.e. I don't care at all. "I could care less" would mean that there is room for less caring, i.e. I do care at least a little. I hear people saying "I could care less" and that's another one that really bugs me.

Navy signaling lamps have louvers that are opened to allow light out. Also, lamps that were the result of combustion would have been easier to open a shade rather than relighting, so I could see it.

As far as “I could care less” either is correct. “I couldn’t care less” is literal. “I could care less” is sarcasm. Bot are better than “Can’t hardly” in reference to anything.