On price increases re. minimum wage increase

[Rusty2112]

Got ya. So where do you help me and others rocketry woes?

 

[BABAR]

Got ya. So where do you help me and others rocketry woes?

Other sections of the forum. this is the “water cooler”, where ALMOST anything goes, so long as it is not blatantly political, racist,sexist, unsafe, illegal, inflammatory, non-family friendly, or otherwise considered out of bounds by a fairly broad minded and good team of moderators.

 

[Sooner Boomer]

Thanks for the information. Do you no about launching rockets in freezing weather? I think I'm going to build my own launch controller with two 9v wired in parallel, or is it series?

When you're launching in really cold weather with a hand-held launcher (or any launch controller), you need to keep the batteries as warm as possible. A chemical reaction will double for every 10 degrees Celsius rise in temp. Likewise it will half for each 10 degree reduction in temp. Let's call room temperature 20 degrees C (about 67 degrees F). If we lower the temp to freezing, 0 degrees C, we have dropped 10 degrees twice. The first drop reduced the reaction powering the battery by half. The second 10 degree drop cut it in half again, 1/4 the reaction rate at room temp. And so on for the next ten degree drop (14 F).

I'd like to make a joke at this point, tying back into the original thread, but it's 3:30 and my mind wants sleep more than puns........

 

[Rusty2112]

Wow thanks. That more than answered my question. I forgive you for holding out on the humor 3:30 a.m. is my cutoff as well.

 

[Rusty2112]

It's -9 today should I wrap my controller with one of those NASA plutonium heaters or just wait till it hits 40 or above. Thanks again for the info.

 

[cbrarick]

When you're launching in really cold weather with a hand-held launcher (or any launch controller), you need to keep the batteries as warm as possible. A chemical reaction will double for every 10 degrees Celsius rise in temp. Likewise it will half for each 10 degree reduction in temp. Let's call room temperature 20 degrees C (about 67 degrees F). If we lower the temp to freezing, 0 degrees C, we have dropped 10 degrees twice. The first drop reduced the reaction powering the battery by half. The second 10 degree drop cut it in half again, 1/4 the reaction rate at room temp. And so on for the next ten degree drop (14 F).

I'd like to make a joke at this point, tying back into the original thread, but it's 3:30 and my mind wants sleep more than puns........

there you go again, talking in metric. We don't do that. You should know better. What's next, Romer or Delise scales?

 

[JPalmer621]

Love all the comments. Lots of good info in here. I ran a retail store that my boss told me I had to hire at $7.25 for normal positions like cashiers and stockers. I asked if I could pay more and was told no! What you get at $7.25 are people with out skills in your field. But if you are willing to work, you know show up and on time, dressed appropriately and work while you are there you will get promoted. Maybe not as fast as you want but in the long run you will. I have promoted many people over the years but I would like proof that you are worth the money. I am starting a new career next week and am going to make a lot less money (since I have no experience in this field) but my plan is like my other jobs, get in the door, show them what I got and get promoted.

 

[jrap330]

"birghs

unfortunately most birthed today, in American are before wedlock. But, yes, sensible advice. But last comment about government feeding children is pure bull.

Sorry, I must have remember incorrectly since the story where I read this was printed last year, 2020 Therefore a good number of births are before wedlock.

 

[SkyFire]

I've heard people talk about how bad things would be for consumer prices if the minimum wage was increased to $15. So I decided to find out through an example---McDonalds

From what I've gathered from the web, an average McDonalds grosses $2.7 million per year, average 15-16 employees (that number is very slowly dropping). I assumed that essentially all were working minimum wage.

$2.7 million is $7400/day, gross. Assume 15 hour workday, 6am - 9pm. (I know some people work through the night but compared to the day shift, it's pretty few, even zero. Varies with the franchise).

That's now $493 gross/hr. For 15 employees an increase of $7.50 in their wage comes to a wage increase of $113 per hour.

So to offset the $113 increase in wages with an increase in sales means an increase of $113/$493, about 22%.

The average Big Mac price would go up 79 cents, from $3.57 to $4.36.

My understanding is that McD's isn't the most profitable franchise to own; Chick-fil-A is higher.

Granted that I've made several assumptions, they're as close to "average" as I can get. Some companies may suffer or even go out of business, especially those who are on the edge already. Not as many as might be thought, though. And the increase in price will be accompanied by a decrease in sales. I don't think it would be a huge decrease. Americans like their junk food.

Of course, there's nothing to stop any company from raising prices to a (much) greater extent and claiming "it's that damn wage increase!" I know, that's cynical...

Best -- Cynical Terry
"Every idea or claim looks perfectly reasonable. Until you do the math" -- Max Hendrix

 

[Sooner Boomer]

Way back in 1938, a gentleman by the name of Albert J. Nock wrote an essay titled "The Disadvantages of Being Educated". In it, he makes the distinction between being educated, and being trained. For most jobs in the world, training would suffice. He recognized this back then. It's true today. The problem is, a lot of the folks doing the actual hiring are requiring a college degree for an applicant to even be considered. Jobs where high school plus some vo-tech training would do better, and cost less. Plumbers, welders, carpenters - folks doing "trade" jobs don't need all the fuzzy stuff in a current college curricilum to do their work.

Shutting up now because I feel a rant starting behind my eyes.......

 

[jderimig]

Skills are part of the package. But not the biggest part, maybe not even the majority of the package.

 

[mo2872]

I was at a Sam’s today, and was repeatedly having to hold up for someone driving the self-propelled zamboni-like floor cleaner. All I could think was, no way that’s “worth” $15/hour. You could so easily “roomba“ that machine. And run it after hours.

 

[Blast it Tom!]

Holy smokes, this thread was started Jan 29th (11 days ago) and we're out 9 pages already? I couldn't hope to read it all and just a quick scan shows there's a lot of good thought here. But I can't read it all... so my 2 cents worth (how can a thinking person resist such a topic?) Kinda random thoughts loosely linked together.

1. I don't know if anyone has considered the impact of our tax burden on overall costs. I cannot provide hard calcs but I've heard that gov't at all levels consumes 40% of our GDP. Whatever it is, it's big. So your $4.00 ice cream sundae ($16.00 for a family of four) would be $9.60 with zero gov't burden (an impossibility, but bear with me). Then you add on the cost of regulation. Regulation occurs because people either don't know how, or will not (in the absence of enforcement), do the right thing.
2. I am well aware that costs for many things in life have outpaced wage growth. A lot of this is due to gov't distortion of the markets - college and health care to name two, though one could argue private industry (the insurance & pharmaceutical companies) are complicit in that as well. College costs particularly impact the lowest wage earners, our kids starting out, so Mommy and Daddy have to divert funds intended for their retirement to pay exorbitant college costs, and then face the whopping health care costs of old age.
3. That said, I sit here making very important decisions on very expensive equipment by doing advanced engineering analysis etc. etc. Published a few papers, 31 years experience, a college degree and a Professional Engineer's license, I believe a good reputation in my industry. Maybe I'm underpaid, I don't know, but when I think of a $15.00/hr. minimum wage, I'm thinking the multiplier to go from a job sweeping floors to mine is not nearly enough. Yet I see the tremendous increase in prices of things, despite "0.62%" inflation, and $7.50/hr is not very much. Even here in western PA, McDonald's is hiring for more than that.
4. I'm concerned about the National Debt. It's only been this high, as a fraction (soon to be a whole number + a fraction) of GDP - once - during World War II. And we probably owed it largely to our own citizens - "Buy War Bonds! "The borrower is servant to the lender", says the Good Old Book, and common sense as well. And if China, who is getting increasingly belligerent with both Hong Kong and Taiwan, continues on their planned and stated path to world domination, while we're sitting here with our national credit card maxed out and a bunch of people who don't believe in American exceptionalism, and I guess they'll let Hong Kong, Taiwan, the South China Sea, and whatever China has it's eyes on in Africa and South America go to the Chinese.
5. I'm not sure why the Federal government should be setting a minimum wage. Quite a few states have higher, and that's where I think the decision rests.
6. I think we look to the Federal Government for far too much, as if somehow they don't pull their pants on one leg at a time.
7. I also think many people look at the National Treasury as a bottomless pit. Well, if it has one, we're sure trying hard to find it!
8. People vilify Wall Street, but where is your retirement invested? That having been said, there are scoundrels everywhere, and big money tends to attract more than it's share. Of course, so does politics.
9. Capitalism without compassion is carnivorous. You should be willing to pay your workers decently and contribute to community life as well. This would likely render minimum wage laws moot. I'll put my rose-colored glasses away before I walk into a wall.
10. In general, I think usually government IS the problem, but it will continue to be the problem as long as we look to it as the source of all - what do I say - all fairness and justice and what-not? Have a gander, if you'd like: 545 people are responsible for the state of the nation. Written in 1984, all you have to do is plug in today's names.

Don't get too mad at me. But many of our problems today can be traced to a lack of character, from the penthouses of Manhattan to offices of Wall Street to the Halls of Government to the streets of our ghettos and other low income neighborhoods. This is about so much more than minimum wage.

 

[JPalmer621]

I have learned the most McDonalds are owned not by the company but by others. Some by individuals that own just 1 McDonalds. Some are owned by companys that own many different restaurants. So when some one say that the CEO makes $XXX is it really your local McDonalds? As franchise they pay for the name and pay a portion of profits each month to the name holding franchies.

As someone who started out at minmum wage. As it was raised it never helped me. I worked hard got annual raises and merit raises only to be caught up by minimum wage. So after 5 years of working I only made a few cents more than someone who had NO SKILLS and NO EXPERIENCE. We also went from 12 people closing at night to 8. My company did give me a raise to barely above minimum wage. Thank you to them. After college I was promoted with that company which I ended up spending 16 years with them. My experience tells me that raising the minimum wage restricts the number of entry level people joining the job market.

 

[OverTheTop]

https://www.9news.com.au/world/nobe...sciences/c33dd8a7-5297-4258-8059-b6854d0cd735

 

[boomtube-mk2]

I know it's all a fine balancing act.. but I do believe some things ae a little out of whack compared to other things in life..

Two things in life are totally out of whack; housing prices and the cost of higher education at the four year college, university level.
I once read a comparison between gasoline and education costs. In this comparison it was pointed out that if gasoline prices had increased at the same level as college/university tuition has, we would currently be paying $39 a gallon.

I read this back in the '90's.

 

[boatgeek]

I'm kind of amazed how people are still steered toward college as the only avenue to a living wage job when people in the trades are seeing exponential salary growth. A month or two ago, one of the local ferry operators had a job opening for a mechanic with 5 years experience. Wage: $84/hour plus benefits. It was probably graveyard shift, but still...

 

[PatD]

Fast food places around here are offering $14.50 to $15.50 an hour for workers. Makes you wonder what a sandwich is going to cost a few months from now.

 

[cwbullet]

Recent history has taught me that we need term limits. We need fresh blood in Washington.

 

[boatgeek]

Recent history has taught me that we need term limits. We need fresh blood in Washington.

That's kind of interesting. There's some research that term limits are a good thing in executive offices, but that they aren't nearly as good in legislative offices. If term limits knock out legislators just as they're really learning the ropes, legislation gets written by lobbyists. Of course, some of that still happens, but it's more so with term limits.

That said, I think term limits on leadership roles in Congress would be a good thing since they act as something akin to executive offices. It's kind of hard to get those limits past the people whose terms would be limited, though...

 

[boomtube-mk2]

Fast food places around here are offering $14.50 to $15.50 an hour for workers. Makes you wonder what a sandwich is going to cost a few months from now.

Or how many jobs are going to be replaced by automation.
My town's two grocery stores are in the process of installing self-checkout stations.
The McDonald's has nobody taking orders in the lobby or taking payment and giving change, it is all performed by automation.

 

[mo2872]

Or how many jobs are going to be replaced by automation.
My town's two grocery stores are in the process of installing self-checkout stations.
The McDonald's has nobody taking orders in the lobby or taking payment and giving change, it is all performed by automation.

Saw a self-driving floor cleaning machine at Sam's the other day........

 

[cwbullet]

That's kind of interesting. There's some research that term limits are a good thing in executive offices, but that they aren't nearly as good in legislative offices. If term limits knock out legislators just as they're really learning the ropes, legislation gets written by lobbyists. Of course, some of that still happens, but it's more so with term limits.

That said, I think term limits on leadership roles in Congress would be a good thing since they act as something akin to executive offices. It's kind of hard to get those limits past the people whose terms would be limited, though...

My problem now is that Legislators are using their office to get rich and do insider trading. I am very troubled by recent news and how legislater’s use their office to their own advantage. They true throw ethics out the door.

I think they over paid and underworked.

 

[green dragon]

As one of those vocational school degree holders, and 'skilled labor' members ( Machinist ). I have to say the biggest issue is NO MANUFACTURING in America anymore.
And if there is, they want some minimum wage kid to feed the cnc machine faster than us old farts - I've had exactly ONE interview in the past 18 months, and not hired ( will refrain from ranting about age discrimination and gender discrimination - young girls got job I interviewed for, experience be damned, they're better eye candy for the drivers ).
And before anyone starts with ' move to where the jobs are' , etc - when you have limited nest egg, have a small side business that's starting to take hold, and all your family and 'support group' is here...... not saying any of this to complain or ' woe is me' .. we're doing fine thank you
But unless you are young and can do warehouse work, or other menial labor, forget it... know many middle age men who are unemployed and passed over on hire for younger entry level employees.
it's the WalMart mentality and outsourcing overseas that has killed America, period. politics be damned - it's all about greed and 'screw the employee to make a buck'

 

[green dragon]

My problem now is that Legislators are using their office to get rich and do insider trading. I am very troubled by recent news and how legislater’s use their office to their own advantage. They true throw ethics out the door.

I think they over paid and underworked.

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

― Benjamin Franklin


touche

 

[ep29030]

My question is: who will be the next Henry Ford? The manufacturing middle-class wage began when Henry Ford raised the wages of his workers. He wasn't altruistic-he realized that raising the wages of his workers could turn them into his customers. For him, it worked. Who will be the large corporation CEO that will take the lesson of history and re-apply it to start a new wave of middle-class consumers?

 

[ep29030]

On the flip side, automation make each employee more productive (output per employee), enabling companies to pay more per employee. Automation also requires more work in the design space, configuring and coding to develop the automated workflow.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

My question is: who will be the next Henry Ford? The manufacturing middle-class wage began when Henry Ford raised the wages of his workers. He wasn't altruistic-he realized that raising the wages of his workers could turn them into his customers. For him, it worked. Who will be the large corporation CEO that will take the lesson of history and re-apply it to start a new wave of middle-class consumers?

Until housing prices, be they rent or purchase, returns to some semblance of sanity, it really won't matter if a company pays their employees enough to buy their product/s.
$15 an hour makes a McDonalds' employee a customer of McDonalds but he/she would still be living with their parents, or else sharing a two bedroom one bath apartment with six or eight of his/her fellow McDonalds' employees.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

On the flip side, automation make each employee more productive (output per employee), enabling companies to pay more per employee. Automation also requires more work in the design space, configuring and coding to develop the automated workflow.

If automation costs a company more to maintain than the costs of the employees it replaces, it won't be implemented.
Yes, the two employees that service and maintain the automation* will get "The big bucks" but the ten, twenty or more employees that automation replaces get bupkis.
And if the company that builds the equipment for automating employees so many people at such high wages that the initial cost of the equipment is prohibitive then it won't be implemented.
Automation always drives down the national average wage, when compared to inflation, if it didn't, there wouldn't be any incentive to automate.

*It is likely that the two people maintaining the automation will actually be employed by the company that builds the equipment, not the company that is using the equipment and they will be responsible for multiple locations.

 

[MJW]

On the topic of automation, one of the best options I've seen put forward is a federal tax on automation so companies are forced to pay for the retaining or long term unemployment costs of displaced workers.

It seems obvious to a lot of people that anyone working full time (whether at one job or several combined) should make enough money to live above the local poverty line without government assistance. A federal minimum wage is one way to accomplish this, but there are other ways. Federal mandates ensuring housing for low income folks should also be considered IMHO. Single payer/universal healthcare fully funded by employer side payroll taxes is another part of the solution.