Advice for building/launching rockets with a girl scout troop?

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Grant_Edwards

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I've volunteered to organize and supervise a model rocket group build and subsequent launch with my niece's girl scout troop. This will be sometime next spring, so I've got a few months to prepare. It's a "junior" troop (grades 4-5), and IIRC there are nine girls in the troop. I'd appreciate any words of wisdom others might have to offer after having done something similar.

Kit Choice?

Estes has a number of bulk packs available, but it wouldn't have to be an Estes bulk pack. It would be really great to get the build done in one session — maybe 2 hrs? I'm thinking that gluing individual balsa fins is probably not feasible for a single-session build, and may be a bit too much to manage with a group of (mostly) 1st time builders, and a 1st time "teacher". I have no doubt that all of the girls could individually handle glue-on balsa fins in a different setting. OTOH, I'd like to do something more than "snap-together". I thought that the Estes Generic E2X looked like a good candidate. I may order a few of them and do a trial run with my niece and her brothers sometime over the winter.

The E2X requires some gluing (all with PVA glue):
  • build a simple engine mount (clip, block, no centering rings),
  • glue mount into the fin unit
  • glue the body tube onto the fin unit
  • glue on the launch lug
  • glue in a tri-fold shock cord mount
And it has a parachute. Kids love parachutes. When I was that age, I always converted all my streamer kits to parachutes. Because real rockets have parachutes.

The way the E2X engine mount and body tube are attached to the plastic tail fin unit is rather clever: it uses PVA glue and and everything is pretty much self-aligning. The most difficult step will be gluing the launch lug onto the body tube. I may buy some 1/8 steel rod and cut it into 12" chunks for use as lug alignment tools. I can make some wood blocks to stick the rods into and then we've got instant display stands.

I'm trying to resist the temptation to ditch the traditional Estes rubber-band-trifold shock cord mount and attach kevlar line to the engine mount. For a 1st build, let's just follow the printed instructions...

I looked at a few of the "custom rocket" kits, but they all had two-piece plastic nosecones that require using plastic cement to glue the nosecone together. It seems petty to complain about something like that when the kit is $6, and I'm sure that saves some money, but it seemed a bit much for a 1st time single-session build. I really like Semroc kits, but none of the ones I've seen are amenable to a single-session build. And somehow I think that the nostalgia factor will be lost on the girls — and their parents. There might be a grandparent or two that would smile when seeing some of the Semroc kits.

Finishing

All the E2X components are white, so with a few markers, paint-pens, and stickers I'm hoping they can produce a somewhat decent looking model with some individuality. I'll probably scrounge some extra stickers and slide-on decals so there are a few more choices available.

Do user-printed printed stickers or water-slide decals end up looking OK? I'd love to print up some decals/stickers with the girls names, some sort of troop number insignia, girl scout logos (that's probably not quite legal), and various colors of stripes and patterns. All I have at my house is a B/W laser printer, but I can get access to color inkjet or laser printers if needed.

They can take them home and spray-paint them if they want, but turning nine 10-year-olds loose with spray cans in the back yard isn't in the plans — I can barely be trusted with spray paint. I may offer to clear coat them if they want to leave them with me. I don't think we'll try spraying a clear coat on them and then sending them home with them that evening.

Sharing Tools?

How many "sets" of tools (scissors, glue bottles, etc.) do I need? Having only one of everything seems insufficient. Should I plan on enough so that everybody has one of everything they need?

Curriculum?

What sorts of activities/demos/lessons (other than the actual building) work well and what don't? I know Estes has some curricula and materials that I need to look into — any comments on Estes curricula?

Other thoughts:
  • Clamp an engine to a fencepost and ignite it?
  • Aerodynamic stabilty demo?
    • Swing test?
    • Cardboard rocket profile cutout in front of a fan?
Launch?

Is one launchpad+controller enough for a group of nine? I've seen photos of scouting launch events that had 4 or more launch rods set up, but I think they were always for larger groups. I do have a second launchpad, but not a second controller — though I've got most of the parts on hand to build one.

What Else?

What have I forgotten to ask about that I'm going to wish I had?
 
Sounds like a fun project!

Are you going to build and launch all in one 2-hour session or are you going to have a second session to launch? If you have another 2 hours to launch, you're probably OK to have one launch pad though you may want 2 to keep the tempo up.

Can you bring a rocket of your own to fly? The crowd usually loves an F or G motor and maybe a spool or something if they've just been seeing one kind of kit.

Speaking of that, can you swing bringing 2-3 different kits with basically the same assembly? More variety helps keep interest. Being able to re-fly helps a lot too (maybe 1/2A then A or A then B).

Finally, fly the field really conservatively. It's way better to have a short flight than one that's lost to trees/weeds/river.
 
The Generic E2X is a good choice especially because of how it's a blank canvas for just about any quick-and-easy decoration. My daughter's group at summer camp had a build and launch session with that rocket a few years ago and I think it went pretty well.

The BMS School Rocket is also highly regarded, but with balsa nose cone and fins there's going to be no way to get it decorated in a single session.
 
Shameless plug: My friend Randy at eRockets has kits that are perfect for this situation. eRockets sells the My Boid. (91 in stock) which uses 13mm motors. There are like 20 different versions of the fins, so all the rockets are similar, but with 9 kids each rocket will look different.

My club has done a lot of these build sessions. It would help to have one or two helpers who know how to build the specific rocket you are using. That gives you one mentor to 3 to 5 kids which is very manageable.

Kids that age do not understand what "use a little glue" means. Some kids get it right, but others will use 10 times more than they need.. I have seen body tubes so covered in glue that they get soggy.

Pre-cut anything that needs an X-ACTO knife. Avoid letting kids that age handle knives that sharp unless you are watching them like a hawk. If you think they can do it safely, one knife per mentor and tell them exactly what to do and then take the knife back when each kid finishes.

Some kids can't tie knots, be prepared.

Check ALL rockets after the build session to make sure they were built properly and will be safe to fly.

Have a few markers handy so kids can write their names on the rocket or do artwork.
 
Are you going to build and launch all in one 2-hour session or are you going to have a second session to launch?
I'm planning on a 2nd session to do the launching.
If you have another 2 hours to launch, you're probably OK to have one launch pad though you may want 2 to keep the tempo up.
I think I'll try to put together or borrow a 2nd launch controller. I've got a friend who used to do fireworks shows, and he's got a pretty sophisticated digital launch controller that I might be able to use (especially if I can get him to help with the launch).
Can you bring a rocket of your own to fly? The crowd usually loves an F or G motor and maybe a spool or something if they've just been seeing one kind of kit.
I can definitely bring some of my rockets to launch. I hope to have my Estes Saturn 1B done by then. I just googled "spool" rocket, and that was a new one on me. I'll definitely have to build one of those and demo it.
Speaking of that, can you swing bringing 2-3 different kits with basically the same assembly?
I'll look into that. I'd love for each of them to have a choice in what rocket to build.
More variety helps keep interest. Being able to re-fly helps a lot too (maybe 1/2A then A or A then B).
I've got some 13-18mm engine adapters, so maybe we'll start with a 1/2A "T" engine, then an A.
Finally, fly the field really conservatively. It's way better to have a short flight than one that's lost to trees/weeds/river.
Yea, I thought I try to keep them well below 500ft and make sure there are some some plan B options if it's too breezy and we need to postpone flying.
 
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Do you have a local launch club?
Good question — I'm sure there has to be at least one club in the Minneapolis area.
Yea, I looked at the star-hopper. I kind of want them to do a _little_ gluing — but not gluing individual fins onto a body tube. I'd also like something that can take some "decorating." Based on what I've seen of their other projects, that's probably going to be the part of the build they put the most thought and effort into.
 
The Generic E2X is a good choice especially because of how it's a blank canvas for just about any quick-and-easy decoration. My daughter's group at summer camp had a build and launch session with that rocket a few years ago and I think it went pretty well.
Good to hear. :)
The BMS School Rocket is also highly regarded, but with balsa nose cone and fins there's going to be no way to get it decorated in a single session.
I do really like that kit — especially the through-the-wall fins. But you're right, it seems like too much to do in a single session. I'd love to do something like that if we had 2 or 3 sessions to build and paint.
 
Shameless plug: My friend Randy at eRockets has kits that are perfect for this situation.
:)
I just received 11 kits from eRockets. I got an Estes Red Nova for myself and 10 assorted "Custom Rockets" kits to build with nieces and nephews over the winter.
eRockets sells the My Boid. (91 in stock) which uses 13mm motors. There are like 20 different versions of the fins, so all the rockets are similar, but with 9 kids each rocket will look different.
That looks like a good option.
My club has done a lot of these build sessions. It would help to have one or two helpers who know how to build the specific rocket you are using. That gives you one mentor to 3 to 5 kids which is very manageable.
I'll try to have at least 1 other mentor signed up. After I choose the kit, I think we'll try a test-run with a couple kids sometime over the winter.
Kids that age do not understand what "use a little glue" means. Some kids get it right, but others will use 10 times more than they need.. I have seen body tubes so covered in glue that they get soggy.
Looking forward to that...
Pre-cut anything that needs an X-ACTO knife.
I've been reviewing the E2X build instructions, and it only requires one cut: the slit in the engine tube for the clip. If I pre-cut all of those, then we can skip the X-acto knives.
Some kids can't tie knots, be prepared.
Estes parachutes are now pre-assembled, so no knot tying in thread is required, but we'll still need one knot in the rubber shock cord.
Check ALL rockets after the build session to make sure they were built properly and will be safe to fly.
Good point.
Have a few markers handy so kids can write their names on the rocket or do artwork.
Yep, I plan on having plenty of markers, stickers, and decals available.
 
Good question — I'm sure there has to be at least one club in the Minneapolis area.

Going to a local club rocket launch would give you access to the launch equipment, etc.

Yea, I looked at the star-hopper. I kind of want them to do a _little_ gluing — but not gluing individual fins onto a body tube. I'd also like something that can take some "decorating." Based on what I've seen of their other projects, that's probably going to be the part of the build they put the most thought and effort into.

I do wish Estes would’ve made the Star-Hopper Rocket so the kids, etc. could decorate it with paint, colored markers and/or self stick decals to their liking. These type of paint markers work well,
https://www.acsupplyco.com/supplies/testors-enamel-paint-marker-set-gloss-blue-yellow-flat-black
 
For future reference, my wife used Quest Viper kits for her troop.

Easy, molded fin-can, assembly in one session, launch in another.
If they still sell them I can recommend that kit. I think Wildman provided them and motor bulk-pak at a fair price.

They'll fly on "A" motors so good for a smaller launch area like a school yard or park.

Suggestion, build one extra part way that you can give to a kid that totally messes-up their rocket. Talk them through the failure and then give them "yours" to finish and keep. Remember nobody can lose these days ;)

I also built a crude 4-rod pad and controller to fly from. Attached to a folding saw horse it kept the launch moving.
I donated it to the local Jr High after we moved and the girls were no longer in scouting.
 
Would 3d printed rockets be of any interest? It seems to me that distributed manufacturing is something that's only likely to become more common and having a printer running during the build session might be a fun way to show practtIcal fabrication off while also working on assembly and practical application. Just my two cents, and that's all it's worth.
 
I did Viking kits with my son's Boy Scout den -- 10-12 Bears that were 8-9 years old. Big benefit of Viking is that you can mount the fins in any orientation since they are cardstock and can mount 3, 4, 5, or 6 fins (kids got to select what they would do). Possibly even bigger benefit was that I got a 12 pack at Hobby Lobby closeout for $12.

I 3D printed fins mounting jigs which helped a great deal for the build. We used wood glue for fins and shock cord mounting. I bought packs of everything from pencils to hobby knives to cheap rulers so that everyone could have the tools needed. I gave them all 6" pieces of bamboo skewers to help get glue inside the rocket for engine mount and to help fix the shock chord mount to wall inside. We did use some crazy glue for nose cone but it is easier to manage using wood glue for kids. I grabbed some scrap wood at Home Depot that they put between pallets that has a nice groove in it that works like a doorframe to help mark the body tubes with parallel lines (I cut these to around 10" and had 5 of them from one piece of scrap). Lots of parental engagement / help. We followed the steps with me announcing what to do next and guiding them step by step. My kids also helped since they have built rockets with me before.

As part of the lesson during the build class (while rockets dried) I showed some different style rockets and talked about the various parts, hoe engines work, etc... I asked which would likely fly higher with the same engine. I also showed a swing test and talked about how an object in the air will tend to rotate around its center of gravity but that the air would push on the parts of the rocket once the rocket was moving and that the air pressure on fins would keep the rocket flying in the correct direction, etc... Pretty basic. I have found in other sessions I ran that showing color print outs of some interesting top 10 lists is pretty engaging (I did most expensive marbles in the world but could do highest flying or largest model rockets or famous women in rocket science).

The kids painted their rockets at home after the meeting and we came back together to launch in a park the following weekend. We had 3 launch rods setup and launched for about 1.5 hours (I bought a bulk pack of 24 A8-3 engines so each of 10 or so kids got to launch their rocket 2 times). At the end they launched some of my larger rockets and the more engaged kids were super pumped to launch rockets like the Big Bertha (rest of the kids ran around the field gathering rockets). I brought crazy glue for launch-platform-side repairs and had spare launch lugs and fins on hand. Thankfully had one other dad that could help pack rockets and engines for launch. I wish we had done a bit of a showcase or contest for best looking or fastest looking rocket or something.

I am planning to do Space Monkey V-2 kits with a mix of Boy Scouts and older / more mature Cub Scouts (we just had our 1st meeting so still getting schedule sorted out).
 
If you’re still considering which kit, the Discount Rocketry/Modelrockets.us Turbo tube fin rocket (they also have the slightly cheaper, shorter Tubo) - tube fin rockets are great for build and fly workshops, the tube fins are self-aligning and rugged enough for streamer recovery. I used the Turbo for a two day build and fly at my daughter’s library and they worked out really well.

When it comes to curriculum both Estes and 4H have great “canned” lesson plans and visual aids: https://estesrockets.com/edu/
https://ohio4h.org/rocketry
 
Putting the parachute shroudlines through the nosecone eyelet has frustrated many a scout.

You can either give them bobby pins or do streamers. I do the latter so I can fly smaller fields and they need essentially zero help from me.
 
For future reference, my wife used Quest Viper kits for her troop.
Those look very similar to the E2X (it even mentions it as comparable on the Quest web site).
Suggestion, build one extra part way that you can give to a kid that totally messes-up their rocket. Talk them through the failure and then give them "yours" to finish and keep.
Excellent tip, thanks!
 
Putting the parachute shroudlines through the nosecone eyelet has frustrated many a scout.
Yea, I was trying to think of an alternative to snap-swivels. Getting the shroud lines through a snap-swivel eye is even worse. :)
You can either give them bobby pins or do streamers. I do the latter so I can fly smaller fields and they need essentially zero help from me.
I've got to try to remember the bobby pin method.
 
Check with LOC Precision also,
We offer special packages, pricing and incentives for educational purposes and for making rockets in the classroom. For inquires on upcoming events or programs you wish to develop give us a call @ 920.892.0557 or email our Educational Rocketry manager Dave Barber [email protected].
 
DARS often hosts Scouts. I hate when they show up with Estes Gnomes or Vikings. Fail more often than not and have lately been torn apart by the ejection charges.
The My Boids are ST-8 based so are larger than a BT-20, but smaller than a BT-50. The BMS School Rocket is BT-50 based. I feel that a body tube that is larger than a BT-20 is easier for the kids to build and prep. My humble, but experienced opinion.
Chas
 
It sounds like you have a pretty good plan from the get-go, and most of the replies up to here have been spot on. The Alpha III goes together pretty much the same way as the Generic E2X but is less of a blank canvas. So do the recently-released Cadet and the Skywriter….but neither of these are available in bulk. Of course, if purchased from AC Supply (along with the motors) you can still get a good deal.

A Generic E2X with a B6 is about 500 feet if it goes straight up. It’s around 200 with an A8. These are data from flying altimeters a great deal. Which leads to….if you can get a FireFly or better a FlightSketch Mini, you can put one in your demo model of the same type the group builds and then have a “how high do you think it went?” contest before you launch the kids‘ rockets (or afterward). It adds some interest. Putting one in a small pouch above the ‘chute in the Generic E2X is not that difficult. Either one will fit up inside the nose cone of an Alpha III.

Now….I know from experience that it IS possible to build a model with balsa fins (the regular Alpha) in one session that’s a little over an hour long. I’ve done several such group builds at the Museum of Flight. But it does take a little preparation, and is greatly helped with the use of these (BT-50, 3/32, about halfway down the page: http://www.qualmanrocketry.com/Class_Packs.html).

The preparation includes pre-marking the motor tube as well as poking the hole for the top of the motor hook (as others have mentioned above—that way no knife is needed at the actual build session) and pre-marking the body tube for the fin locations and the launch lug (just like back in the old Alpha II kits). I also put a bunch of shock cord mounts on a sheet of paper and cut them out in advance. I also re-ordered the build significantly (in fact, I wouldn’t give the kids the instruction sheets at all so they couldn’t depart too far from the process I was leading them through). As part of the re-ordering, we did things in sub-assemblies. The very first thing we did was assemble the motor mount and the shock cord mount. While that was drying I gave a short presentation about one aspect of the hobby, then we moved on to sanding LEs and tips of fins, and installing them with the help of the Qualman jig. Then another short presentation then major assembly—install launch lug, motor mount and shock cord mount. Then another short presentation and then final assembly—fillets, tie the nose cone to the shock cord and install the ‘chute. Then I showed how to prep for flight.

We had the launch some time later (within a few days, depending on which session it was) and of course had to go back over prep for flight. In the meantime kids/parents could paint, or use markers or whatever to decorate the models.

We used Alleene’s Tacky Glue for all assembly. I landed on this after trying several things to find something that wasn’t too grabby (so the motor mount didn’t freeze part way in) but still dried reasonably quickly.

I had examples of sub-assemblies to show, and also I’ve made a sort of Phantom Alpha by substituting PST-50 and PST-20 for the body and motor tubes. This is useful for showing where stuff goes as well as illustrating what a packed for flight model should look like.

I think the BMS School Rocket could also be done this way, in one session, and BMS has done some of the pre-work I had to do with the Alpha with their laser cutter, so there would be less time spent prepping before the build. That said, nine is not that hard….try prepping for two 25-kid sessions on the same day…. :eek:

One other Alpha comment: it’s possible, but harder, to do the altimeter thing I suggested with it, just because it’s shorter. It can be done, though….I’ve over 100 Alpha flights with an altimeter aboard in my logs.

I agree with Chas, also - ST-8 or bigger. But that’s what you‘re planning anyway.
 
The BMS School Rocket is also highly regarded, but with balsa nose cone and fins there's going to be no way to get it decorated in a single session.
I do really like that kit — especially the through-the-wall fins. But you're right, it seems like too much to do in a single session. I'd love to do something like that if we had 2 or 3 sessions to build and paint.

I've been launching with Cub and Boy Scouts for the last ... 6+ years now. Always a hit with the kids as well as parents.

BMS school rocket has become my go-to choice. It is absolutely amazing how quickly kids and/or parents can put them together, start to finish in under an hour. Mostly because they are not trying to be perfectionists about the fit, finish, fin fillets, balsa fiber filling and fin papering - none of that!
They finish their rockets way quicker then glue drying would theoretically allow. ;)
https://www.balsamachining.com/
I usually schedule a 1-2 hour "open build" session at a local Library a few days before the launch (free room, good parking, easy directions), to help those who need some hand holding, those who have never done anything like this before, and mostly those who procrastinate until the last possible moment. I supply my glues, finished rocket samples for inspiration, and then sit back and assist as needed.

And it has a parachute. Kids love parachutes. When I was that age, I always converted all my streamer kits to parachutes. Because real rockets have parachutes.

You know what they like more than launching rockets?
Chasing them on the way down, and actually getting them back. They are like a pack of puppies chasing a tennis ball, giggling and rolling in the grass.
Thus, in my experience, streamers win hands down for bringing rockets down quicker, and closer to the launch site (and away from the trees).
I encourage kids to write their names on streamers, to identify the rockets after retrieval.

Finishing
All the E2X components are white, so with a few markers, paint-pens, and stickers I'm hoping they can produce a somewhat decent looking model with some individuality. I'll probably scrounge some extra stickers and slide-on decals so there are a few more choices available.

Do user-printed printed stickers or water-slide decals end up looking OK? I'd love to print up some decals/stickers with the girls names, some sort of troop number insignia, girl scout logos (that's probably not quite legal), and various colors of stripes and patterns. All I have at my house is a B/W laser printer, but I can get access to color inkjet or laser printers if needed.

They can take them home and spray-paint them if they want, but turning nine 10-year-olds loose with spray cans in the back yard isn't in the plans — I can barely be trusted with spray paint. I may offer to clear coat them if they want to leave them with me. I don't think we'll try spraying a clear coat on them and then sending them home with them that evening.

You are WAY over complicating this.
Help kids build a structurally sound rocket, and then let them have fun decorating it. The best thing you can do for yourself, and your sanity, is to stay out of the finishing process.

I used to bring a few spray cans with me to the Library (with instructions to take them outside to paint), but it only created messy transportation challenges for the parents.
Now I stay out of the decoration process, and most kids bring rockets with pretty cool and exciting color schemes to the launch site. A few just write their names on the body tube with a sharpie. They all fly equally well.

Sharing Tools?
How many "sets" of tools (scissors, glue bottles, etc.) do I need? Having only one of everything seems insufficient. Should I plan on enough so that everybody has one of everything they need?

With the BMS kit, all you need are bottles of glue (as many as you can find) and 1 stapler (for the streamer).
I bring as many TBI, TBII, and TBIII bottles as I own, plus medium CA with de-bonder and kicker (to help parents set the fins).

And tons of paper towels.
Bring enough for 3-4 groups to work independently.

Curriculum?
What sorts of activities/demos/lessons (other than the actual building) work well and what don't? I know Estes has some curricula and materials that I need to look into — any comments on Estes curricula?

I hope you are kidding.
With 10 year-olds, keeping their attention on building the thing will exhaust their mental capacity.
Do you really want to distract them?

Launch?
Is one launchpad+controller enough for a group of nine? I've seen photos of scouting launch events that had 4 or more launch rods set up, but I think they were always for larger groups. I do have a second launchpad, but not a second controller — though I've got most of the parts on hand to build one.

1 Launchpad + controller per responsible adult (harder to find that you think), or knowledgeable and rocketry experienced Boy Scout (recruit those in advance from local Troops - they are happy to earn volunteer credits for assisting).
I usually have more Estes launchpads on hand than knowledgeable volunteers (I bought a few "I am quitting" rocketry inventory sets off eBay over the years). Two (2) pads have been my practical upper limit.
Bring 3+ controllers, because one will always fail on you at the worst possible moment.

You will also need 1 folding table that will become your (or another volunteer's) working space for inserting ignitors into motors, and motors into rockets. You really don't want to do that on the ground.

What Else?
What have I forgotten to ask about that I'm going to wish I had?

Feed the peeps!
Juice boxes and donut holes (aka munchkins) for the kids.
Boxes of coffee, water and donuts (from Dunkin') for the adults.

It's amazing how much more fun the events are when food is present!

HTH,
a
 
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Concur with the "just let 'em take the models home and decorate them" idea. A BMS School Rocket or an Alpha that has been decorated with markers or even with house paint will still fly just fine.

And great points about paper towels as well as a folding table (at least one!) at the launch site.

One other model idea: RocketryWorks in Tucson has just introduced a model called Socrates (https://www.rocketryworks.com/socrates-model-rocket/) that is essentially a riff on the BMS School Rocket that replaces the traditional metal motor hook, centering rings and motor block with 3D printed parts (which also include a screw-on motor retainer). The nose cone is also 3D printed. I have a couple of them on the way to me (shipped today) and I'll have more to say after I've put one together. It's being offered at the same price point as the BMS School Rocket and like the SR it can be built with just wood glue, thanks to some clever design features.

The design of this one is still evolving some, and the instructions linked to the product page are out of date, but since you're not needing them next week, this one may be a viable choice as well.
 
FWIW - winter launches are not bad actually. Snow on the ground = no fire risk and far fewer people in the parks...
I buddy of mine likes to do winter launches out on on frozen lakes. I use LiPo batteries in my launch controller, so I'd need to keep it from getting too cold somehow (or wire up some way to use different batteries).
 
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