In Praise of LPR

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brockrwood

brockrwood

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(This is adapted from a post I made in a different forum.)

I think people being into mid-power rocketry (MPR) and high-power rocketry (HPR) is great! That is awesome! Go for it!

I am just saying that, there is no shame in having lots of fun, and learning lots of stuff, easily and affordably, in low power rocketry (LPR).

I am a born-again-rocketeer (BAR) loving me some LPR right now!

I haven’t really gotten into MPR or HPR. The cost and time barriers are a little big for me right now.

Also, I enjoy the rocketry hobby from a math and science standpoint, which can all be done with inexpensive, LPR rockets. I enjoy helping young people get into the hobby and teaching them math and science along the way. Again, that works fine with LPR. When a kid asks how high the rocket will go and you say, "hey, we can use this protractor, a drinking straw, a piece of string, an eraser, and a little basic trigonometry, to find out", and the kid gets excited, that is way cool.

I am also enjoying the modeling aspect of the hobby, which works fine with LPR rockets.

I enjoy clustering and staging, which, again, works fine with LPR rockets.

When I say I am a BAR, I mean it literally. I am a kid again, in a grown up’s body, enjoying building and flying the Estes-type rockets that I loved as a kid.

I enjoy kit bashing - easy to do with LPR.

I still haven’t mastered LPR. I need to build my Estes Executioner and my Double D Squared. Once I do that, I will assess whether I want to try MPR. I am having a lot of fun just being a kid again!

Yes, I am still mastering LPR and I am not even close to done. There is lots of fun to have, and things to learn, in LPR. You don't have to feel like you are not "measuring up", or anything like that, just because you are in your late 50's and still into LPR.

Besides, as anyone in their late 50's will tell you, dignity is highly overrated.
 
brockrwood said:
I need to build my Estes Executioner (...). Once I do that, I will assess whether I want to try MPR.
Click to expand...

The Executioner is MPR though... :D

Anyway that one line in my signature says it all. I brought my Orbital Transport to an MDRA launch, one of the premier HPR clubs in the country, and the LCO got all excited to see it fly and as it came back under parachute/glider wings, he said that line that I took to heart - "They don't need to be big to be cool."
 
When I decided to get back into this, I wasn't reminiscing about my biggest most powerful rockets. I was remembering my 2nd rocket, an Alpha 3.

And thinking about how to fix it.
-It flew away too often. The chute is drastically oversized.
-a longer tube would be nice for less melted chutes/streamers
-stronger, stubbier, less warped fins.
-cheaper

That's pretty much the Black Brant 3 with some Kevlar, maxi launch lug, and a giant hole cut in it's 12" chute. Which I have 4 of now. 1 completed and rtf.

Added some BB2's, Highflyer XL's, Star Orbiter's, and Extreme's. All so cheap, they're nearly negligible in cost. Time and fuel getting to the field, just once, cost more than all of those combined. Little streamer rockets are still fun.

Then I wanted some waterproof extra durable rockets for certain weekends and picked up a Mach1 Haymaker and BT20 Alien Interceptor. Hopefully their extra weight brings them straight down easier.

Since I have fins perfected and chutes without fail since
-started packing my chute like Tim at Apogee says instead of the Estes instructions method
-unpack and crumble up the chute, then repack within 10 minutes of the launch, never the night before

It's has become a bit too easy. It's time to try dual deployment LPR and MPR. Nearly finished a Bt55/24mm Mach 1 Saberhawk, just needs primer, ground testing, motors, and paint. A Devil Ray, needs the same and fillets. And hopefully will get a 54/38mm Thunderbird soon.

For a while, I thought the fiberglass rockets would make the paper ones obsolete. Nope. Each type really accentuates the other. I'd rather not risk the expensive rockets to trees. And nobody gives away a fiberglass rocket to a spectator kid.

I wouldn't overlook big rockets just because LPR's are your favorites. My happy go lucky 35hp motorcycle is just as much fun as my 215hp 197mph bike. Just different tools, for different days.
 
I really do like the LPR fiberglass rockets from Mach 1. I'm glad we are starting to to affordable options for gadgets to stick in small rockets too.

Bigger rockets are fun too, but I do like being able to drive to the park with a handful of small rockets and launch them for less money in motors than I would spend in gas to get to a HPR launch.
 
MidOH said:
-unpack and crumble up the chute, then repack within 10 minutes of the launch, never the night before
Click to expand...

I have not had chutes fail to deploy properly since I started getting rid of the polyethylene parachutes that come with the LPR kit rockets and started replacing them with the nice, slippery nylon parachutes from Apogee Components. Is it a little pricey to spend $7.48 on a parachute on a rocket that only cost $14.99 to buy? Not really. The real cost of the rocket is the labor and the time to build it. If you have worked tirelessly for hours to glue everything together just right and finish the rocket until it is beautiful and glossy, paying $7.48 for a parachute to ensure that the darned parachute opens up every time seems like a trivial amount of money. I hate seeing the plastic parachute come out of the rocket in a "wad" that never opens up. That beautiful model comes down with the "wad" parachute in tow, and crashes on the first launch, with tube all bent and fins snapping off. Argghh!
 
A lot of us attach chutes or streamers to swivels and small quick links so you can use the same chute on several rockets or swap sizes depending on the day. I also have a roll of mylar bird scaring tape to cut off use as a nice shiny streamer.
 
lakeroadster said:
I'm a LPR guy too. But, get into some cluster designs... and you may well find you've ventured into the realm of MPR.
Click to expand...

Let's see what the cluster motor calculator (https://www.rocketreviews.com/combine-motors.html) tells me...

Yep! If I cluster three Estes D12's I get the same power as "26th percentile of the F motor range". That would be 50.52 newton-seconds. Holy smokes! OK, how big of a body tube do I need to stuff in three D motors...
 
That's why I crumple them up really well before the flight. The overnight folds get permanent, the chute wants to stay folded.. Crumple them up into a mess, flip inside out, crumple again. Then pack normally.

Lines go in the chute, not wrapped around the chute.

All of those crumples will make the chute want to open up.

Gold Bond Foot powder. Not too much.

I swear that cutting the dotted center out of Estes chutes helps them open quicker. Air flow through them, instead of just flopping the wad back and forth. I still use the cheap chutes often, because some of my rockets are meant for cheap risky flights.

For LPR rockets the Apogee chutes are best, and quickest opening. The Topflight are a bitter slower opening and tougher/thicker. Both slide out easier than plastic, and never block vent holes.
 
Last edited:
MidOH said:
I swear that cutting the dotted center out of Estes chutes helps them open quicker. Air flow through them, instead of just flopping the wad back and forth.
Click to expand...

I agree on cutting the center out of the plastic parachute (making a "spill hole" helps the parachute canopy open up. Keeps it from spinning and twisting as well, which helps prevent the shroud lines and shock cord from tangling.

For my model rockets that I still use plastic parachutes in, I do this:

*Make my own parachute out of a plastic garbage bag - easy to see in the sky
*Put a 2 inch "spill hole" right in the middle
*Put on heavier duty shroud lines (less likely to tangle)
*Make the shroud lines longer (even it does tangle, there is still lots of shroud line length left to let the canopy open up fully)

IMG-5505_plastic_para_pink_lines.jpg

But, the above said, the above is a lot of work. The $7.48 for a 15 inch Apogee nylon 'chute is worth the time and effort saved.
 
brockrwood said:
Let's see what the cluster motor calculator (https://www.rocketreviews.com/combine-motors.html) tells me...

Yep! If I cluster three Estes D12's I get the same power as "26th percentile of the F motor range". That would be 50.52 newton-seconds. Holy smokes! OK, how big of a body tube do I need to stuff in three D motors...
Click to expand...

Not big at all if you do them like a Russain Vostok, they have a lot of "lot's of motors, small body" designs.

1626993114285.png

Or something like I did on my scratch build Lifting Rocket

001.JPG004.JPG
 
Last edited:
Antares JS said:
The Executioner is MPR though... :D

Anyway that one line in my signature says it all. I brought my Orbital Transport to an MDRA launch, one of the premier HPR clubs in the country, and the LCO got all excited to see it fly and as it came back under parachute/glider wings, he said that line that I took to heart - "They don't need to be big to be cool."
Click to expand...
My friend (friends since we were in elementary school together) built an orbital transport back in the 70’s (or very early 80’s). He slaved over it. The “shuttle” glider flew great but it could sail out of sight on you. I wonder if he still has the Orbital Transport?

I built the Scissor Wing Transport in the 70’s or early 80’s and loved it. No idea where it is now. Maybe in my mother’s attic. I would love to build another one.
 
brockrwood said:
I think people being into mid-power rocketry (MPR) and high-power rocketry (HPR) is great! That is awesome! Go for it!
Click to expand...

I agree w all you said. I feel the same way. I will add that LPR rockets can have more design leeway - or odd rockets. MPR and HPR are 99%ish 3 or 4 fins and a nose cone.

I like SciFy looking rockets, and LPR is more appropriate for those none-atmosphere (or no aerodynamics needed) type designs (like my Avatar!) :cool:
 
Huxter said:
I agree w all you said. I feel the same way. I will add that LPR rockets can have more design leeway - or odd rockets. MPR and HPR are 99%ish 3 or 4 fins and a nose cone.

I like SciFy looking rockets, and LPR is more appropriate for those none-atmosphere (or no aerodynamics needed) type designs (like my Avatar!) :cool:
Click to expand...

Pic of Avatar please! :)
I love sci-fi looking rockets, especially "Dieselpunk" ("Flash Gordon" and "Buck Rogers") type rockets.

I have begged the new owners of Estes to bring back the "Galactic Pirates" rockets from the early 1980's. I hope they consider my request!

I love the Galactic Pirate "Patrol Cruiser Excalibur".Pages 42_n_43_from_Estes_1981_Catalog_galactic_pirates_rockets.jpg
 
Woody's Workshop said:
When one is disabled, retrieving rockets can be a huge challenge!
I'm loving those mini engine rockets.
I try micro, but funds are too limited to venture into another direction.
Plus, my eyes and shaky hands would have a most difficult time with even smaller parts.
Click to expand...

I agree. This is one reason I like spools. You can build them for any size motor, the smaller ones can be made from scraps. They don't fly very high, or land far away.
 
BAR here too at 61 years young. I'm loving the hobby even more than I did as a teen because I have FUNDS now! I stopped into Hobby Lobby today to by some D engines and ended up leaving with a Baby Bertha. $7.99! How could I pass that up? BIG Bertha was one of my favorite rockets as a kid. It was orange. It took off slower which made it even more fun to launch. Not sure what happened to it.
My first rocket was the Estes Scout. Tumble recovery fun!

Now I have a workshop, more tools and 3d printer which opens up so many possibilities for modeling.
 
Last edited:
OG1959 said:
BAR here too at 61 years young. I'm loving the hobby even more than I did as a teen because I have FUNDS now! I stopped into Hobby Lobby today to by some D engines and ended up leaving with a Baby Bertha. $7.99! How could I pass that up? BIG Bertha was one of my favorite rockets as a kid. It was orange. It took off slower which made it even more fun to launch. Not sure what happened to it.
My first rocket was the Estes Scout. Tumble recovery fun!

Now I have a workshop, more tools and #d printer which opens up so many possibilities for modeling.
Click to expand...
Which 3D printer do you use?
 

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