1/4 Scale ARIES

[3stoogesrocketry]

After posting a couple photos in Dan's thread , I received a few private messages from others asking how I built the rocket so far . I decided I will do a quick detailed write up on the construction and flight in the spring . The rocket is a rebuild of a 1/4 scale ARIES I built in the late 90's inspired by Ray Halm and Andy Schektner's one half scale flown at LDRS in Argonia in 1996(?) On 4 M1939's. My origanal rocket was all PML 11.5 components and weighed 108 pounds loaded with a single M2500. After many , many hours of trying decide how to get 10 pounds of parachutes into a 5 pound space , I shelved the rocket for a smaller cheaper design. The rocket was later destroyed when it fell over in the garage . 35 pounds of lead in the top 10 inches of the cone sheared the nose cone in half and broke the main body tube.

ARIES part 2 is a light weight design that will be a single deploy pop it at the top style . I spent about 2 weeks doing 4 different build versions in open rocket before I found the best design for what I was looking to do .

The construction of the rocket is very basic and my 7 year old daughter is doing alot of the construction (supervised) and is her first "big" rocket. Last year she started out with Estes and likes the bigger stuff .

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

I settled on quarter scale for two reasons:

1. The size of the motors I wanted to use (38mm) to get the altitude I was looking to get (1500 to 3000 feet)
2. I'm working on a single parent budget and have a storage unit of old parts I can use.

The basic construction of the rocket consists of two parts , the fin can / lower airframe , and the nose cone / upper airframe / AV bay.

I had a pile of PML 11.5 to 7.5 centering rings and bulk plates in body tube size and coupler tube size. I decided to use the coupler tube inside diameter as my rockets outside diameter.

I used one of the centering rings as a guide at my shop and used my router to make a mess and buzzed out a 4 by 8 sheet of 25psi 2 inch thick Blue Board.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

The fin can / lower airframe started life as a 48 inch length of 8 inch Quik-Tube from my local Lowe's. I decided on using a 7.5 inch PML coupler before hand so I brought that along with me to get the right tube. Once I had the tube , I cut it down to 30 inches. We glued one half inch thick ring to one end of the 30 inch long tube. This is the TOP of the fin can lower airframe where it will be deploying , so I wanted a little rigidity . Then using a 2 part epoxy similar to West Systems , we glued 8 foam doughnuts onto the yellow tube and a 1/4 inch thick centering ring I split in half from one of the 1/2 inch thick rings . With the wet assembly upside down I put 80 pounds of weight evenly around the 1/4 inch ring to compress the sandwich together to cure. After it dried over night , my daughter used a 24 inch body block with 50 grit to quickly level the foam using the centering rings as sanding guides. She then used a light weight joint compound called Plus 3 to fill in all the low spots.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

After she cake frosted my rocket , we used a 24 inch drywall straight edge to pull a nice smooth finish. After a quick touch up with 120 grit we had a nice smooth base to work the glass onto . I then sent her off to play while I put a single layer of fiberglass onto to tube using 2 part epoxy leaving a nice finish .

The fins will be made out of 1 inch blue board cut and sanded to shape with the transition being glued in 4 separate quadrants after the fins are secured.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Wow! I’m glad you started your own thread.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

The nose cone / upper tube / AV bay are all one section . I used a 48 inch section 38mm Blue Tube 2.0 Ive had for several years as a core tube / adjustable weight tube as the inside diameter shrank well below usable use as a motor mount. Using a PML coupler 1/2 inch thick bulk plate , I found the center and blasted a 1.5 hole in it with a hole saw and gave it a final adjustment with a 60 grit flapper wheel . I then used 3 speed squares to make sure the tube was perfectly perpendicular to the bulk plate .

When I was cutting doughnuts out of the blue board , I cut 13 with a 1.5 center hole in them to act as the upper airframe and AV bay / lower noes transition. 6 of the foam rings got glued onto the 1/2 inch ring , along with the other 1/4 inch thick split PML Ring on top and compressed. After that dried we glued the 7 other onto the 1/4 inch ring and compressed them with a 3/8ths 9.5 inch OD ring to the 38mm tube and compressed to dry. We then glued four 10 inch diameter to 38mm doughnuts and 5 of 7 inch doughnuts onto the tower , compressed with a 3 inch to 38mm 1/4 inch ring.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

The rings on my nose cone act as sanding guides in key places to get the correct shape . To shape the cone roughly I used a wood hand saw to get a 8 sided looking shape. Then I made two wooden pillow blocks / plates to spin the rocket . I glued the 11 inch to 38mm template onto the end of the tube and attached a handle. We then spun the rocket and used 50 grit sandpaper on my 24 inch body block to get a nice consistent shape . She used the filler to make it smooth , I then glasses it all.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

As far as the rocket couples together , the PML 7.5 inch coupler bolts onto the bottom of the nose cone . There is a half inch plate glued into the 7.5 inch coupler. Before I glued the nose all together , I drilled and installed 4 3/8ths tee nuts 5 inches on center into the bottom of the 1/2 inch centering ring on the bottom of the cone


The thought with this is duel use.

1. If and when the coupler gets damaged I can simply make a new one and bolt it on .
2. To add noes weight I will have a 3/8ths threaded rod running up the center of the tube into the tip . I will use a threaded eye nut to secure the weight as well as a attachment point for the recovery .

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

If you look at the black and white photo , the rocket will separate right above the PMR letters.


And the AV bay will be about where the Black horizontal line is under USN. I plan on inserting 2 38mm tubes horizontal into the side of the main body tube and these will act as my electronics bay . Then I just need to slide a vented plug in to keep everything secured. Current plans are single deploy , but capable of using my AARD for DD later down the road. The black tip will be a hunk of mahogany turned on my lathe.

 

[kuririn]

Four motor cluster like the original Fat Albert?

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Current sims put the rocket at 23 pounds full up minus motors. The 7.5 inch core tube will house a removable cluster mount. The first flight will consist of 4 x 38mm Loki I405 motors. On the pad it will weigh roughly 32 pounds with the 6 pounds of needed ballast. Simms say 1850 feet at 260 mph.


Also I have been asked about rail buttons. On the front of the fin can I installed a 2 inch cubed block of white pine treated with epoxy screwed to the front 1/2 inch thick ring before we glasses the tube. The rear button will be secured in similar fashion. 1515 buttons.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

I am not sure if this will work but here is the ork. file

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

As far as the rocket couples together , the PML 7.5 inch coupler bolts onto the bottom of the nose cone . There is a half inch plate glued into the 7.5 inch coupler. Before I glued the nose all together , I drilled and installed 4 3/8ths tee nuts 5 inches on center into the bottom of the 1/2 inch centering ring on the bottom of the cone View attachment 451687View attachment 451688


The thought with this is duel use.

1. If and when the coupler gets damaged I can simply make a new one and bolt it on .
2. To add noes weight I will have a 3/8ths threaded rod running up the center of the tube into the tip . I will use a threaded eye nut to secure the weight as well as a attachment point for the recovery .

I like this setup a lot. It‘s great you have an option to easily replace the coupler if necessary. And the adjustable nose weight system is a good idea too — I’m looking forward to seeing exactly how you do that.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Can you tell me what weight of glass fabric you used and how many layers?

When I made mine, I just hand laid some 3oz glass in a single layer to keep it from getting dings and to make a paintable surface. I was trying to keep it extremely light, but it still added weight. For most of the rocket, it was more than enough, but the tips of the fins have still been damaged a bit on landing, and mine is only a 4-pound rocket. You mentioned using blue board for the fins. What are you doing to beef those up? I’m thinking as I build bigger foam rockets, I’ll need much tougher fins than what I have on my first one.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Can you tell me what weight of glass fabric you used and how many layers?

When I made mine, I just hand laid some 3oz glass in a single layer to keep it from getting dings and to make a paintable surface. I was trying to keep it extremely light, but it still added weight. For most of the rocket, it was more than enough, but the tips of the fins have still been damaged a bit on landing, and mine is only a 4-pound rocket. You mentioned using blue board for the fins. What are you doing to beef those up? I’m thinking as I build bigger foam rockets, I’ll need much tougher fins than what I have on my first one.

As far as the fiber glassing goes , the glass I used shown above is just the standard Bondo automotive fiberglass any auto store sells . The glass is 25 x 49 and I'm guessing around 4 or 5oz , and a very loose weave. I like using it because it conforms very nicely to complex shapes and wets out very easy. I used around 3 packs total and 10 pumps of West Style epoxy 5 to 1 with a fast hardener.

I have a couple rolls of different glass that I'm going to try on a test fin , but most likely it will be 3 layers of a heavy 8 to 10 oz not sure glass.


The fins will be glued on with three quarter inch radius West and chopped glass. Then I will use 4 layers tip to tip of the auto motive style .

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Here is one of 4 full scale Iris fins for a foam project that has taken a 4 year break , but is coming back this year.

That is a 18 inch ruler on it for scale . It is currently sitting on two 1 inch thick slate slabs .


There is zero deflection with 75 pounds on the fin

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

I have cut out a few mock up fins to do some profile testing and glass testing on . Once im satisfied I will show my process.

 

[Loki Research]

...
View attachment 451675

I just want to know, how did Thirsty's mug manage to get onto your flat screen TV? That's just weird.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

I just want to know, how did Thirsty's mug manage to get onto your flat screen TV? That's just weird.

We were watching Fluffys food tours . Now that you mention it , it does look like Thirsty....

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Here is my revised electronics bay . I installed a 12 inch long section of loc 54mm motor mount as my e-bay under my removable coupler . Slide in my sled and bolt on the coupler . This design was chosen as I one day may want to use my AARD , and the AARD requires a 1/4 inch bolt thru a bulkhead . I will use a small tube thru the side to access the push button(s) and also as a baro port.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Well it has been a moment but the fins are all done on this beast . First I cut out the rough shape onto 1 inch blue board. The leading edge goes from 1/2 inch thick to just over 1 inch over a 5 inch taper. To achieve this I simply used 50 grit sand paper on a 12 inch body block to sand up to my lines. Then some 80 grit to smooth it out for bonding. I used 1 layer of 7 oz glass tape , 4 inch wide , to glass the leading edge / tip / trailing edges of the fins . Before each fins glass treatment cured , I glued each fin in place to get a chemical bond as well as a mechanical bond . Then using my 11 oz ish heavy cloth , I did one tip to tip layer covering the whole fin , and one tip to tip on the back half of the fin where it tapers out . Next up , rear button mount and rear transition . You can see the sharpy lines as to where it will expand.

 

[gerbs4me]

Cool project! Can't wait to see the launch pics!

 

[mrwalsh85]

Way cool. I was at LDRS 18 and witnessed the majestic lift off of Ray/Andy's Aries. It was quite something to see!

Have fun and keep up the good work!

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Transition build

I went back and forth for a few days on the "best" way ( cheap / strong / lightweight ) to build the transition. I settled on a poster board and fiberglass layup. The first thing I did was cut a 1/2 inch thick 13 inch OD by 10 inch ID centering rings , and then cut it into 4 90 degree arches . I then had to cut and sand a 1 inch off the end to compensate for the thickness of the fins . I glued each section of the ring into its own fin quadrant with a thickened epoxy mixture . I did not get any good pictures showing this work.

Next I used standard poster board and using Gorilla brand heavy duty hair spra..... I mean spray adhesive , I tacked the poster board down to the two rings , and then I layered the front transition poster board over the leading edge of the piece behind it.

To ensure my edges of the floppy poster board stayed where I wanted it , I used 1/2 inch diameter quarter round pine trim secured into place with more spray adhesive . Not only did the 1/4 round outline the exact edging of the transition and base tube , It also acted as a stop for my filleting tool so I could not accidently push down on the poster board de-shaping it. I then used a length of 38mm fiberglass tube as my filleting tool to shape a perfect 3/4 inch radius fillet with thickened west epoxy. After the epoxy cured , I put one layer of 8 oz loose weave glass on the poster board and up the sides of the fins 2 inches ( the red marker line ) . I am going to do another full tip to tip , I simply ran out of epoxy and am waiting for more.

For mounting the rear rail guide , I used a 6 inch long section of 1.5 inch had railing , glued and screwed between the base centering ring and the section of ring . This gives me plenty of opportunities to screw up my button alignment.

As it sits right now , it's tipping the scales at 18 pounds even . Overall , about 6 pounds heavier then guessed , but I was using open rocket stock numbers till I could back input the numbers to get the exact weight per CC .

First flight will most likely be Urrf 7.5 on a 75mm K780 redline as I've had this motor for 5 or 6 years now , so its free lol . On this motor , it will require a total of 8 pounds of nose weight to achieve .8 stability . This means it's 38 pounds on the pad. Ol' Fat Albert will lumber up to 1800 feet at 229 mph and pop the main(s) . The second flight will have 4 motors , maybe 4 j528s if I can .

Next up will be the nose weight and EBay.

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Here is another picture I found of the fins right after the leading , tip , and trailing edges all had 2 layers of 8oz glass installed . I still need to add at least one more layer of glass to the poster board .



The nose cone tip was formed using poster board to get the correct shape and size. The core tube of the nose cone was made out of a length of 38mm (1.5 inch ID ) blue tube . To help gain the needed nose weight , I used a 6 inch length of 1.5 OD CRS epoxied into the tip of the cone with 2 inches protruding out of the tip. This was enough to support and center the cardstock cone onto the end of the main nose cone . The area around the pin and cardstock cone has then been filled with steel .188 shot and epoxy ( 1 pound total ) to help bring the CG forward . Then 2 layers of 8 oz glass will smooth and reinforce the tip .






To add more weight to the tip , I drilled and tapped the aft end of the 1.5 inch pin with 3/8-16 threads that a length of threaded rod will screw into. To add more weight , I will slide precut lengths of 1.5 inch OD rod with a 1/ inch thru hole up to the tip and will hold it in place with a length of 1/2 inch pvc tube over the threaded rod with a couple fender washers. The coupler will then bolt on and hold the PVC tube and weight all in place. A 3/8ths Eye nut will then help hold it all together , and add a hard point for recovery .

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Well it has been 2 months since my last post . The rocket is done . I did a semi scale is paint job . First flight is on a K1085WT if it shows up in time, I also have a K780 Redline ready to go as well . On the pad weight will be right around 40 pounds .

 

[Theory]

Very cool!!!

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

Some more random pics . The motor adapter is a 75mm core with 4x38 and 4x29 .

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

The Aries flew perfectly on its first flight . The rocket weighed exactly 40 pounds on the pad with a K780 redline. It maxed out at 1660 feet , and ejected a TFR 120" and a TFR 60" on a 40 foot section of 1 inch tubular nylon .