Better ignitors for composite rockets

[ExoResearch]

This is a DIY ignitor motor I build specifically for my composite rocket motors

 

[Bat-mite]

Thanks for the video. It is always good to see new and different ways of doing things. I just want to pose a question, if I may. In the subject line, you wrote "Better ..." I would like to know why you think these are better than traditional pyrogen igniters. Also, what would you do differently for level 3 motors (M, N, and O impulse). Thanks.

 

[ExoResearch]

I found that the consistency of ignition better. The pyrogen works great, unless it doesn't. I find that the burn time for the traditional ignitors is too short. This method burns for a longer period of time, for more finicky motors. Especially at colder temperatures and for the composite motors. Perhaps I might one day do some ignition tests with both types to see if my findings would actually hold up in a controlled environment,.

 

[ExoResearch]

Thanks for the video. It is always good to see new and different ways of doing things. I just want to pose a question, if I may. In the subject line, you wrote "Better ..." I would like to know why you think these are better than traditional pyrogen igniters. Also, what would you do differently for level 3 motors (M, N, and O impulse). Thanks.

I have not worked with anything larger than a G, so I can not comment on those motors.

 

[rharshberger]

Nothing new or better in this video, except maybe the parafilm. When soldering nichrome a special flux is needed as standard rosin core electrical solder will not do the job correctly. The paper, and wood are potential fire starters when they are ejected from the nozzle still burning. The match head is very friction sensitive, unlike many of the igniter compounds we use, and the igniters from this video might be a very tight fit through the nozzle both going in AND getting spit by motor pressure potentially plugging the nozzle causing a CATO. However all the ingredients are easy to come by.

 

[shockie]

If I was Estes, and I'm not,although I play like I'm Estes. I would combine the plastic hold in plug and the igniter into one piece.

Mold the plastic plug with the pyrogen on the tip and the
wires on the other end

I've been experimenting with inserting a typical Estes igniter and then pouring in a liquid thermoplastic that hardens...its not a solid per se, but it's pliable..

So its basically a molded combo igniter plug

 

[neil_w]

If I was Estes, and I'm not,although I play like I'm Estes. I would combine the plastic hold in plug and the igniter into one piece.

Sounds nice but not practical. There are a whole bunch of different sized plugs, so that would mean there would be a whole bunch of different starters, the manufacturing would be more complex, blah blah blah.

Just speaking for myself, I find the existing plugs to be the easiest thing in the world. *Way* easier than the little tubes you have to use for the Q-jets, for example.

 

[davel]

14 minutes of video that could have been done in 2. Nichrome is not solderable with standard rosin core solder. Burning match is not generally hot enough to light may of the composite formulas. Ditto the above mentioned nozzle clogging and fire hazard.

 

[dhbarr]

If I was Estes, and I'm not,although I play like I'm Estes. I would combine the plastic hold in plug and the igniter into one piece.

Mold the plastic plug with the pyrogen on the tip and the
wires on the other end

I've been experimenting with inserting a typical Estes igniter and then pouring in a liquid thermoplastic that hardens...its not a solid per se, but it's pliable..

So its basically a molded combo igniter plug

I used a pin vise to drill through some of them to put q2g2's through -- it worked pretty well, but sometimes they were a bit loose.

 

[shreadvector]

If I was Estes, and I'm not,although I play like I'm Estes. I would combine the plastic hold in plug and the igniter into one piece.

Mold the plastic plug with the pyrogen on the tip and the
wires on the other end

I've been experimenting with inserting a typical Estes igniter and then pouring in a liquid thermoplastic that hardens...its not a solid per se, but it's pliable..

So its basically a molded combo igniter plug

You would not be Estes, you would be Cox.

 

[shreadvector]

 

[shockie]

View attachment 446310
View attachment 446311

The difference

View attachment 446310
View attachment 446311

I wonder who designed that igniter? Doug Malewicki?

My idea is to combine the current Estes plastic plug with an igniter inside if it.

But nevertheless, great minds think alike. lol

 

[don carter]

My business partner and I are coming out with our line of solid propellant motors most likely in late spring, early summer. They will have an integral igniter that will be put in the motor at time of launch. Our igniter material was developed with the help of a retired propellant chemist from Aerojet. It will be "instant on" when you press the button. They will be single use motors. NO delays! As for pricing. Just stay tuned!

 

[SwingWing]

If I was Estes, and I'm not,although I play like I'm Estes. I would combine the plastic hold in plug and the igniter into one piece.

Mold the plastic plug with the pyrogen on the tip and the
wires on the other end

I've been experimenting with inserting a typical Estes igniter and then pouring in a liquid thermoplastic that hardens...its not a solid per se, but it's pliable..

So its basically a molded combo igniter plug

just like the old cox igniters

 

[shockie]

just like the old cox igniters

The old cox igniter was hard plastic...I was thinking more along the lines of a combo of a rubbery estes motor plug with igniter wires inside coming out the bottom of the plug with the plug head being a pyrogen....imagine the end plug as being made out of wax enclosing the wires ...it would be shaped like the nozzle to fit.

 

[SharkWhisperer]

I'm sorry, but instant ignition is neither wizardry nor difficult in the least. Of the many igniter videos I've seen, this was one of the worst. A matchhead??? Re Rharshberger's comment--no, my friend, his safety match heads are not friction sensitive. The precise recipe is no secret but we're not allowed to discuss formulations, meh. It's not a strike-anywhere match, with only the tip being friction sensitive. Anyways, match comps make crappy low-temp slow-burning pyrogens. Last thing you want for a motor igniter. More solder on the table than the connections (need a zinc chloride/acid flux solder IF you're even soldering--nichrome doesn't like to get wet). What's special about Parafilm vs electrical tape and why would you need either if your connections were solid? Why make life difficult using two individual wires instead of a duplex. Why stranded wire instead of solid copper? 28g nichrome is excessively thick. "Voltage" doesn't matter? Sheesh. Amps sure do. What's your all-fire current? No idea? Yeah, we knew that...

You've successfully reinvented a worse mousetrap.

 

[jimzcatz]

My business partner and I are coming out with our line of solid propellant motors most likely in late spring, early summer. They will have an integral igniter that will be put in the motor at time of launch. Our igniter material was developed with the help of a retired propellant chemist from Aerojet. It will be "instant on" when you press the button. They will be single use motors. NO delays! As for pricing. Just stay tuned!

So you are saying we have to carry our rocket AND motors to the pad? Separately? Because you can't have an ignitor in a motor when going thru RSO nor when transporting to the pad. You really need to provide more information or rethink your ignition system

 

[rocketman328]

My business partner and I are coming out with our line of solid propellant motors most likely in late spring, early summer. They will have an integral igniter that will be put in the motor at time of launch. Our igniter material was developed with the help of a retired propellant chemist from Aerojet. It will be "instant on" when you press the button. They will be single use motors. NO delays! As for pricing. Just stay tuned!

 

[rocketman328]

Are you the Don Carter of REACTION LABS out of Taylorsville, KY in the late 1980's???

 

[rocketman328]

My business partner and I are coming out with our line of solid propellant motors most likely in late spring, early summer. They will have an integral igniter that will be put in the motor at time of launch. Our igniter material was developed with the help of a retired propellant chemist from Aerojet. It will be "instant on" when you press the button. They will be single use motors. NO delays! As for pricing. Just stay tuned!

Are you the Don Carter of REACTION LABS out of Taylorsville, KY in the late 1980's??

 

[prfesser]

Nothing new or better in this video, except maybe the parafilm. When soldering nichrome a special flux is needed as standard rosin core electrical solder will not do the job correctly. The paper, and wood are potential fire starters when they are ejected from the nozzle still burning. The match head is very friction sensitive, unlike many of the igniter compounds we use, and the igniters from this video might be a very tight fit through the nozzle both going in AND getting spit by motor pressure potentially plugging the nozzle causing a CATO. However all the ingredients are easy to come by.

First sentence above .

As others have pointed out, safety matches are not particularly sensitive to friction, and even strike-anywhere matches aren't friction sensitive except for the white tip. FWIW details and formulas for composition of both types of matches can be found in Ellern's Military and Civilian Pyrotechnics (it's on the web).

David Sleeter described a similar starter, except that Sleeter's: (A) used a paper match instead of wooden match; (B) used much finer nichrome, 38 or 40 ga; (C) solid copper leads, not stranded, which makes; (D) soldering unnecessary, and; (E) masking tape instead of Parafilm.

Oh yeah, forgot: (F) Sleeter first described his procedure about 50 years ago. Not exactly new. Complete instructions along with several photos took just one side of 8 1/2 x 11 paper. Instructions for starters made with matches as the pyrogen can be found in one of the Best of AFN books. Works great for BP motors, and a strip of Blue Thunder taped to the starter does the job for composites.

Best -- Terry

 

[Bruce]

My business partner and I are coming out with our line of solid propellant motors most likely in late spring, early summer. They will have an integral igniter that will be put in the motor at time of launch. Our igniter material was developed with the help of a retired propellant chemist from Aerojet. It will be "instant on" when you press the button. They will be single use motors. NO delays! As for pricing. Just stay tuned!

Are you the Don Carter of REACTION LABS out of Taylorsville, KY in the late 1980's???

Didn't Reaction Labs become Solid Motor Company in 1990?

This Certified Motor Listing from 1993 shows 5 SMC motors

https://web.mit.edu/kolya/.f/root/athena.mit.edu/net/user/chris/News/Rec.models.rockets

NAR/TRA Certified Motor Listing
October 26, 1993


SMC Solid Motor Company

Designation Mfgr Dur Avg Th TI Rating Type Pro TRA Exp Group
_______________________________________________________________
I130-P SMC 3.3 209.1 689.9 107.8 Exp AP 2/3/94 TRA
I230-P SMC 4.2 160.1 672.5 105.1 Exp AP 2/3/94 TRA
J474-P SMC 2.7 524.9 1417.1 110.7 Exp AP 2/3/94 TRA
K575-P SMC 4.3 564.9 2429.0 94.9 Exp AP 3/31/94 TRA
K900-P SMC 3.4 769.5 2616.3 102.2 Exp AP 2/3/94 TRA

 

[Ez2cDave]

My business partner and I are coming out with our line of solid propellant motors most likely in late spring, early summer. They will have an integral igniter that will be put in the motor at time of launch. Our igniter material was developed with the help of a retired propellant chemist from Aerojet. It will be "instant on" when you press the button. They will be single use motors. NO delays! As for pricing. Just stay tuned!

Total Impulse levels ?

Dave F.