GUNS & ROCKETS

[rharshberger]

My dads old Stevens 22 Long rifle. Same box the 1873 was on. Don’t know how old it is, or how rare, but it’s a cute lil bugger. The barrel is shot out tho...

Depending on its value, you can have the barrel lined and return it to shooting accurately. Barrel lining is where the gunsmith drills out the old bore using special tooling, then inserts a barrel liner which is basically a thin walled rifled tube, the barrel is then rechambered and its nearly as good as new. The reasons that barrel is "shot out" is probably due more to corrosive primers and less than meticulous cleaning practices over the many years. I am guessing the .22 is a old Steven Favorite, should be possible to find year of manufacture based on serial no. or at least to the nearest decade. Does the manufacturers stamp on top the barrel read J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co if so its pre 1916, a 1915 model would be stamped on the upper tang and the manufacturers address would read J. Stevens Arms Co. Determining if its an 1889 or 1894 model would require removing the butt stock and looking inside the reciever. There should be a serial number under the lever. Pre1916 manufacture guns are hard to date due to lack of surviving records, over the years I have seen and handled a few Stevens Favorites. Would it be possible to get closeups of all sides of the receiver, top of the barrel and the butt of the rifle?

 

[rharshberger]

Gotta have a sn somewhere? What caliber? I thought I read the 1886 was made for bigger rounds.

1886 standard caliber list: 45-70, .45-90 WCF, .40-82 WCF, .40-65 WCF, .38-56 WCF, .50-110 WCF, .40-70 WCF, .38-70 WCF, .33 WCF.

 

[jd2cylman]

Depending on its value, you can have the barrel lined and return it to shooting accurately. Barrel lining is where the gunsmith drills out the old bore using special tooling, then inserts a barrel liner which is basically a thin walled rifled tube, the barrel is then rechambered and its nearly as good as new. The reasons that barrel is "shot out" is probably due more to corrosive primers and less than meticulous cleaning practices over the many years. I am guessing the .22 is a old Steven Favorite, should be possible to find year of manufacture based on serial no. or at least to the nearest decade. Does the manufacturers stamp on top the barrel read J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co if so its pre 1916, a 1915 model would be stamped on the upper tang and the manufacturers address would read J. Stevens Arms Co. Determining if its an 1889 or 1894 model would require removing the butt stock and looking inside the reciever. There should be a serial number under the lever. Pre1916 manufacture guns are hard to date due to lack of surviving records, over the years I have seen and handled a few Stevens Favorites. Would it be possible to get closeups of all sides of the receiver, top of the barrel and the butt of the rifle?

Rich,
While you posted this, I was doing a little looking. It must be a Favorite. However, mine says " J Stevens A & T Co" then "Patent Apr 17 94" I think. There is a number 754 under the lever.
Off to show the 1873 to the local former gun smith.
Laters.

 

[rharshberger]

Rich,
While you posted this, I was doing a little looking. It must be a Favorite. However, mine says " J Stevens A & T Co" then "Patent Apr 17 94" I think. There is a number 754 under the lever.
Off to show the 1873 to the local former gun smith.
Laters.

So its most likely a Stevens Favorite Model 17 1894, 754 is a low serial number so it was made prior to 1916, thats about as close to age as you will probably get. I am best guessing this based on information from a number of sources I have here at home. As you most likely have discovered already the screw and loop in front of the trigger gaurd is the takedown screw, loosen it up the the barrel is removeable, a new reproduction barrel that may fit it is available from Gun Parts Corporation as well as very few original parts. The gun either barrel lined or barrel replaced would be a great little gun. Value as is hard to say but it looks to me to be a standard Model 17, there were 18, 19's and iirc 20's made during the early era, but they had features like peep sights and other extras, none of the Stevens guns have the Model marked on them with the exception of the 1915 iirc. There was a Model 71 made in 1971 by Savage or Springfield who had acquired Stevens, same rifle newer manufacture.

 

[Steve Shannon]

1886 standard caliber list: 45-70, .45-90 WCF, .40-82 WCF, .40-65 WCF, .38-56 WCF, .50-110 WCF, .40-70 WCF, .38-70 WCF, .33 WCF.

.38-56, octagon barrel, set triggers. Really nice for its age, unlike me.
I’ve not taken the time to follow up on the serial number. It belonged to my wife’s uncle who died in ‘87. It probably was bought in Tonopah, NV in the early 20th century.

 

[jd2cylman]

So its most likely a Stevens Favorite Model 17 1894, 754 is a low serial number so it was made prior to 1916, thats about as close to age as you will probably get. I am best guessing this based on information from a number of sources I have here at home. As you most likely have discovered already the screw and loop in front of the trigger gaurd is the takedown screw, loosen it up the the barrel is removeable, a new reproduction barrel that may fit it is available from Gun Parts Corporation as well as very few original parts. The gun either barrel lined or barrel replaced would be a great little gun. Value as is hard to say but it looks to me to be a standard Model 17, there were 18, 19's and iirc 20's made during the early era, but they had features like peep sights and other extras, none of the Stevens guns have the Model marked on them with the exception of the 1915 iirc. There was a Model 71 made in 1971 by Savage or Springfield who had acquired Stevens, same rifle newer manufacture.

Wow, thanks for all the info. I had no idea it was that old. I'll probably just put it on some hooks in my living room. The ejector fork is shot and the block doesn't fit tight against the barrel any more. But it's cool to know a little more than I did this morning. Thanks very much!

 

[jd2cylman]

.38-56, octagon barrel, set triggers. Really nice for its age, unlike me.
I’ve not taken the time to follow up on the serial number. It belonged to my wife’s uncle who died in ‘87. It probably was bought in Tonopah, NV in the early 20th century.

Cool.

 

[o1d_dude]

.38-56, octagon barrel, set triggers. Really nice for its age, unlike me.
I’ve not taken the time to follow up on the serial number. It belonged to my wife’s uncle who died in ‘87. It probably was bought in Tonopah, NV in the early 20th century.

Tonapah.

Whenever I hear “Tonapah”, it makes me think ”I’ve been from Tucson to Tucumcari, Tehachapi to Tonapah, driven every kind of rig that’s ever been maaaaaade...”

Unfortunately, my dad sold and traded all his guns to finance his summer home in Maine so I don’t have any of the guns he “haunted”.

 

[John Kemker]

Tonapah.

Whenever I hear “Tonapah”, it makes me think ”I’ve been from Tucson to Tucumcari, Tehachapi to Tonapah, driven every kind of rig that’s ever been maaaaaade...”

Unfortunately, my dad sold and traded all his guns to finance his summer home in Maine so I don’t have any of the guns he “haunted”.

"Driven the back roads, so I wouldn't get weighed..."

 

[Funkworks]

In 1902, large guns were apparently the standard way of sending people to the moon (5:50):



And that was my contribution to this thread.

 

[o1d_dude]

"Driven the back roads, so I wouldn't get weighed..."

That’s the one.

Willin’

 

[rfjustin]

Bought my first Timney trigger for my Ruger American... 1.5 pound. Easy install, very happy with it!

 

[Winston]

With the current insurrections taking place, my sister now wants to buy a home defense firearm. I recommended a tactical shotgun (with pistol grip and fixed butt stock), specifically a Savage/Stevens Model 320. Cheap and good and there's nothing better for home defense without the need for actual confrontation than the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round.

Although I don't doubt she can handle the recoil from a full size round especially with that pistol grip, I've seen on gun shows these 12 ga mini-shells for home defense. I've always wondered how in the hell they can properly feed. I just reviewed some YouTube videos and found they don't without an adapter which I've seen mentioned for Mossberg shotguns ONLY. Is that the case?

 

[rfjustin]

With the current insurrections taking place, my sister now wants to buy a home defense firearm. I recommended a tactical shotgun (with pistol grip and fixed butt stock), specifically a Savage/Stevens Model 320. Cheap and good and there's nothing better for home defense without the need for actual confrontation than the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round.

Although I don't doubt she can handle the recoil from a full size round especially with that pistol grip, I've seen on gun shows these 12 ga mini-shells for home defense. I've always wondered how in the hell they can properly feed. I just reviewed some YouTube videos and found they don't without an adapter which I've seen mentioned for Mossberg shotguns ONLY. Is that the case?

Sorry, hard pass on the bold above.
Q: You know what the sound of chambering a round into a shotgun tells an intruder?
A: WHERE YOU ARE IN THE HOME. I'd rather not give away my location in the home.

Any pump shotty would be a good choice for home defense. Avoid heavy loads, stick to bird shot for home defense to avoid over penetration. Must have accessory for any home defense weapon is a weapon mounted light.

EDIT: Mini shells are cute, but not worth a FTF when it counts.

After that, train, train, train...

 

[rfjustin]

Magpul 870

 

[rfjustin]

With the current insurrections taking place, my sister now wants to buy a home defense firearm. I recommended a tactical shotgun (with pistol grip and fixed butt stock), specifically a Savage/Stevens Model 320. Cheap and good and there's nothing better for home defense without the need for actual confrontation than the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round.

Although I don't doubt she can handle the recoil from a full size round especially with that pistol grip, I've seen on gun shows these 12 ga mini-shells for home defense. I've always wondered how in the hell they can properly feed. I just reviewed some YouTube videos and found they don't without an adapter which I've seen mentioned for Mossberg shotguns ONLY. Is that the case?

If your sister wants some free training, I'll send this to her, no charge.

 

[Winston]

Sorry, hard pass on the bold above.
Q: You know what the sound of chambering a round into a shotgun tells an intruder?
A: WHERE YOU ARE IN THE HOME. I'd rather not give away my location in the home.

Any pump shotty would be a good choice for home defense. Avoid heavy loads, stick to bird shot for home defense to avoid over penetration. Must have accessory for any home defense weapon is a weapon mounted light.

After that, train, train, train...

I hope loudly chambering a round and yelling "I have a shotgun and know how to use it!!!" even in a female voice is an adequate deterrent to prevent them from coming looking for you. If not, with a shotgun, they most likely will die. Their choice.

She's pretty tough, very smart and level headed. She went to college on a volleyball scholarship, so like everyone else in the family she's tall, but very much UNLIKE me, she's an athlete and avid runner.

For training, I told her to check for a home defense class. Agree on the mounted light. There are strobe capabilities on some of them that can supposedly blind and disorient the perp, but I wonder if they can do the same to the shooter, in a hallway for instance. Any thoughts on that? I'm skeptical.

 

[Winston]

If your sister wants some free training, I'll send this to her, no charge.
View attachment 419098

Thanks for making me aware of that. Really appreciate the offer, but I'm sure she doesn't want me giving out her address.

https://www.amazon.com/Magpul-Art-Dynamic-Shotgun-DVD/dp/B0044YJ0UE
"Note: This is an Export Controlled item per US Law and will require Export approval by the US Department of Commerce or State (whichever applies) before shipping outside of the US or selling to a Non US Citizen residing in the US. "

Wow. Any idea why?

 

[rfjustin]

Thanks for making me aware of that. Really appreciate the offer, but I'm sure she doesn't want me giving out her address.

https://www.amazon.com/Magpul-Art-Dynamic-Shotgun-DVD/dp/B0044YJ0UE
"Note: This is an Export Controlled item per US Law and will require Export approval by the US Department of Commerce or State (whichever applies) before shipping outside of the US or selling to a Non US Citizen residing in the US. "

Wow. Any idea why?

ITAR

 

[rfjustin]

I hope loudly chambering a round and yelling "I have a shotgun and know how to use it!!!" even in a female voice is an adequate deterrent to prevent them from coming looking for you. If not, with a shotgun, they most likely will die. Their choice.

She's pretty tough, very smart and level headed. She went to college on a volleyball scholarship, so like everyone else in the family she's tall, but very much UNLIKE me, she's an athlete and avid runner.

For training, I told her to check for a home defense class. Agree on the mounted light. There are strobe capabilities on some of them that can supposedly blind and disorient the perp, but I wonder if they can do the same to the shooter, in a hallway for instance. Any thoughts on that? I'm skeptical.

Strobes have their place, but in my opinion, they disorient you just as much as who/what is in front of the muzzle.

 

[Winston]

ITAR

Yeah, but what in a shotgun use training video justifies that? Super-secret CIA/Special Forces/Black World stuff that no other country can figure out? Weird.

 

[rfjustin]

Yeah, but what in a shotgun use training video justifies that? Super-secret CIA/Special Forces/Black World stuff that no other country can figure out? Weird.

Likely falls under USML (US Munitions List), Category IX: Military Training Equipment and Training.

 

[rharshberger]

Im a firm believer in the Rem 870 being the most versatile and economical shotgun that is readily available at reasonable prices. It also has a record as a solid and reliable shotgun, and its also gots so many accessories for it that you can personalize it to do whatever you want.

 

[UncleJoe]

Bought my first Timney trigger for my Ruger American... 1.5 pound. Easy install, very happy with it!
View attachment 419048View attachment 419049

Dam good trigger, I use them in my competition 22`s and ar. You'd like rifle basic triggers for high power. they have 10oz. triggers.

 

[rfjustin]

Im a firm believer in the Rem 870 being the most versatile and economical shotgun that is readily available at reasonable prices. It also has a record as a solid and reliable shotgun, and its also gots so many accessories for it that you can personalize it to do whatever you want.

 

[richP]

With the current insurrections taking place, my sister now wants to buy a home defense firearm. I recommended a tactical shotgun (with pistol grip and fixed butt stock), specifically a Savage/Stevens Model 320. Cheap and good and there's nothing better for home defense without the need for actual confrontation than the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round.

Although I don't doubt she can handle the recoil from a full size round especially with that pistol grip, I've seen on gun shows these 12 ga mini-shells for home defense. I've always wondered how in the hell they can properly feed. I just reviewed some YouTube videos and found they don't without an adapter which I've seen mentioned for Mossberg shotguns ONLY. Is that the case?

While pump shotguns have long held a respected place in home defense, they don't do so without some serious drawbacks. Recoil, muzzle blast, lack of practice facilities, forgetting to rack the shotgun, etc..
Another option that has really taken-off in the past few years is the pistol caliber carbine. In 9mm, you have a gun that addresses many of the drawbacks of a 12 pump gun.

 

[MikeyDSlagle]

Sorry, hard pass on the bold above.
Q: You know what the sound of chambering a round into a shotgun tells an intruder?
A: WHERE YOU ARE IN THE HOME. I'd rather not give away my location in the home.

Any pump shotty would be a good choice for home defense. Avoid heavy loads, stick to bird shot for home defense to avoid over penetration. Must have accessory for any home defense weapon is a weapon mounted light.

EDIT: Mini shells are cute, but not worth a FTF when it counts.

After that, train, train, train...

So...
The sound of an action closing will give away your position but a mini spotlight won't?

Half joking. I get the idea behind the light. I have a bright light within reach, hard to attach a light to my LCR snubby.

I do agree that it is a bad idea to rack in a round once your are in that situation though. One already in the chamber also gives you an extra shot. I've seen people forget to cycle a pump while duck hunting, so I would imagine it is easy to forget in a life or death situation as well.

You can find rounds specically designed for home defense shotguns, or skeet shooting loads are pretty mild. But mild means less energy downrange.

There is no perfect home defense weapon. Shotguns are good but remember they are "long guns". There are instances and situations where a long gun will be unusable or ineffective, ARs included, the most obvious being if you lose use of one hand or arm; another is if for some reason you end up too dang close.

A good double action revolver is a stupidly simple (to operate) and reliable machine. A 357 Magnum handgun will also fire 38spc, for those that don't know, and 38spc is a mild shooting round. The +P is a happy medium. The extra weight of the larger frame of the 357 will also help when shooting the lighter loads. A spurless (hammerless or shrouded hammer) revolver has some advantages as well. You've seen Lethal Weapon, how Murtaugh used his hand to stop the hammer on his revolver...can't do that with a spurless. Only 5, 6, or 7 shots though, slower reloads...so on and so forth.

Just wanna mention this little guy...
https://stdgun.com/s333-thunderstruck/Anyone fired one?

 

[rharshberger]

So...
The sound of an action closing will give away your position but a mini spotlight won't?

Half joking. I get the idea behind the light. I have a bright light within reach, hard to attach a light to my LCR snubby.

I do agree that it is a bad idea to rack in a round once your are in that situation though. One already in the chamber also gives you an extra shot. I've seen people forget to cycle a pump while duck hunting, so I would imagine it is easy to forget in a life or death situation as well.

You can find rounds specically designed for home defense shotguns, or skeet shooting loads are pretty mild. But mild means less energy downrange.

There is no perfect home defense weapon. Shotguns are good but remember they are "long guns". There are instances and situations where a long gun will be unusable or ineffective, ARs included, the most obvious being if you lose use of one hand or arm; another is if for some reason you end up too dang close.

A good double action revolver is a stupidly simple (to operate) and reliable machine. A 357 Magnum handgun will also fire 38spc, for those that don't know, and 38spc is a mild shooting round. The +P is a happy medium. The extra weight of the larger frame of the 357 will also help when shooting the lighter loads. A spurless (hammerless or shrouded hammer) revolver has some advantages as well. You've seen Lethal Weapon, how Murtaugh used his hand to stop the hammer on his revolver...can't do that with a spurless. Only 5, 6, or 7 shots though, slower reloads...so on and so forth.

Just wanna mention this little guy...
https://stdgun.com/s333-thunderstruck/Anyone fired one?

Heres the problem with a weapon mounted light...unless its so bright as to be painful it just gives me an aiming point, aim center of the light and most likely hit the target behind the light. Many years ago when I was taught urban combat we were trained to use a flashlight (usually a large Maglight) in our off hand and to hold it to the side a bit from our body, while it was bright enough to be "blinding" it was not bright enough to stop someone shooting at it, if it was to the side of you they have a good possibility of a miss, if it was part of the weapon or just under it then the shot has a much better chance of hitting. Personally I dont use a light on my home defense gun, I carry a small flashlight (Surefire, can remember the model, its pushing 20years old) for use if I need it, instead I would turn on the overhead light if switch is easily reached and light is needed, then the light source doesn't give me away, most home these days have enough ambient light sources in them that shooting in the "dark" is still doable, if with a pistol night sighs make it easier, and with a shotgun point and shoot.

Shotguns are GENERALLY a better choice for home defense guns as they have a lot of leeway built in due to the pattern size (a 12 gauge can pattern a 15-20' between 3" and 4.5") so a near miss with a 12gauge #4 buck shot round may still put half its balls on target doing some damage, a single bullet from say a 9mm is a miss no matter what. Another point in favor of shotguns is ease of use most short barrel home defense guns are very maneuvreable, and CQB adapted ones even more so, a single day at the range can render every member of the family proficient in the operation of the shotgun as its "point and shoot" not "aim and shoot", of course much more training is required for either a pistol or shotgun so that the individual learns target recogition, situational awareness, and thought needs to go into the organization of the home. For example in my home all the bedrooms are on the second floor, anyone breaking into the house has to come up the stairs to get to the family, my sons room is has a common wall with the stairwell for that reason his bed is on the opposite side of the room from the common wall since if I am forced to engage a target in the stair well there is much less worry about pentrating the wall and hitting him on the other side (my preferred home defense load is Winchester #4 buck shot from a Rem 870 SuperMag with an 18.5" barrel). As stated shotgun as well most other weapons including pistols need both hands to operate, though a semi auto can be operated single handed until it comes time for reloads, clearing a jamb, etc. IMO just about any shotgun load except slugs are a valid home defense choice since nowhere inside my home is the range going to exceed 10 yards, most, if any shots will be taken at under 5 yards.

These are my personal opinions on home defense choices.

In my home defense safe I have a S&W M&P Shield .45ACP, a Springfield XD compact .40 S&W, a Sig Sauer 556P with brace, and a Rem 870 SuperMag configured for home defense (its also one of my hunting shotguns with a barrel change).

 

[Steve Shannon]

Rich,
If you want to divest yourself of that SIG 556, let me know. I’m still kicking myself for selling an FN FNC, and the 556 was a reasonable alternative.

 

[UncleJoe]

View attachment 419182

Rem 870 has been all that and more. It's in the ATA hall of fame for the shotgun that's broken more birds than any other. I love my Browning 425, but I started breaking clay with a Rem 870.