rocketman328
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Michigan?Lock down extended until 5/15.
NAR / TRA Membership Refunds?
- Thread starter DAllen
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DAllen
Well-Known Member
Yep.
NateB
Well-Known Member
Lock down extended until 5/15.
I just saw that, can't say I'm surprised though. Gov. Holcombe said he wouldn't ease up on Indiana without cooperation with our neighboring states, so mid-May looks to be the earliest here too. Most fields in the Midwest will be planted by then, so most events will probably be held off until after harvest.
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And Illinois is extended until 5/30/20...
Speaknoevil
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Any hope for MMWP are now beyond waning...
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Well... They are allowing golfing (with proper social distancing), so...
Speaknoevil
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Yep, I am on the course every couple of days. My club has strict rules and it is pretty benign (https://www.harrisonhills.com/). Tons of Illinois folk jumping the border to play the #8 ranked course in Indiana.
grouch
Well-Known Member
I don't see why a launch couldn't be held especially where I am at. A handful of folks parked out in the desert. There is no reason to sit in each other's lap while you prep your junk. Plenty of space to move around and maintain 6'....or 60' because we have the room. When this finally lets up it will be too daamn hot to fly anyway. We are already at 100 degrees.
We’ve been working on this. To make a long story short your Prefect will need to get approval from the health department in the county where you launch and then follow their guidelines regarding group size, social distancing, etc. Any actions which could be interpreted as violations of your state or local regulations would invalidate launch insurance.
I’m attempting to do that here. Our state begins Phase 1 on Monday, but the Public Health Nurse believes launches are a category that isn’t allowed until Phase 2.
Get permission from the health department; even an email or a phone call with you logging the time and name of who approved your activities should be fine. It’s up to you to explain to them what we do. Our state allows “outdoor recreation” during Phase 1 but doesn’t allow “organized events” until Phase 2. Get a copy of whatever document they have produced that lists what can and cannot be done in each of the three different phases and know enough about it when you call them that you can politely explain your case.
o1d_dude
'I battle gravity'
Wut?Lock down extended until 5/15.
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Michigan.
Michigan governor Whitmer extends state's stay-at-home order
Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer extended her state's stay-at-home order through May 15 but is lifting restrictions so some businesses can reopen and the public can participate in outdoor activities like golf and motorized boating. The measure immediately replaces one that was scheduled to expire next week.
Michigan has nearly 3,000 deaths related to COVID-19, trailing only New York and New Jersey among U.S. states. Whitmer said in the new order the prior order had been "effective," and that "the strain on our health care system has begun to relent, even as our testing capacity has increased."
Social distancing measures will remain in place. People are now required to wear face coverings in enclosed public spaces such as grocery stores if they can medically tolerate it. Employers must provide non-medical grade masks to their in-person employees.
DAllen
Well-Known Member
Wow. A logical common sense approach to the situation. We're not used to that here in Michigan. :|
Speaknoevil
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In addition, we don't launch under trees. Generally we are out in the sun which is a good thing: https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...ght-heat-humidity-could-help-kill-coronavirus
Ez2cDave
Well-Known Member
Steve Shannon, President of Tripoli, has said that Member renewal dates will be extended for a period of time equal to the shutdown.
HOWEVER - On April 17, 2020, I sent John Hocheimer, President of the NAR this email.
QUOTE :
John,
Tripoli is extending the expiration date of Memberships by the length of the Covid-19 quarantine.
Is NAR going to be doing the same thing for its Members ?
Thanks,
Dave F.
NAR 21628 L2
END QUOTE:
His reply was that NAR will NOT be doing so . . . He did not elaborate further.
For more information, you can contact him, directly, at : [email protected]
Dave F.
HOWEVER - On April 17, 2020, I sent John Hocheimer, President of the NAR this email.
QUOTE :
John,
Tripoli is extending the expiration date of Memberships by the length of the Covid-19 quarantine.
Is NAR going to be doing the same thing for its Members ?
Thanks,
Dave F.
NAR 21628 L2
END QUOTE:
His reply was that NAR will NOT be doing so . . . He did not elaborate further.
For more information, you can contact him, directly, at : [email protected]
Dave F.
Ez2cDave
Well-Known Member
Chuck,
Yes, I agree . . . Provided that Tripoli DOES NOT go the "Flipbook" route that NAR has chosen, which makes downloading and saving impossible. They should all be available in downloadable PDF format.
As for "paying for access", Members have already done so, through their annual dues.
Dave F.
grouch
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that they might be dealing with other more pressing concerns than a bunch of late middle age guys that want to play with their toys. Hopefully I am wrong. Hopefully that is the very thing they are waiting on.
If the health department is too busy to respond, the answer would probably be no anyway. Our Prefects are pretty smart; they know not to ask until their state is making the effort to reopen, which means a reduction in new cases for a couple weeks straight most places.
JohnHochheimer
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Dave,
It never occurred to me that my response to you would become something that you would share with the rocketry community. Had I known your role as the “Jimmy Olsen of TRF”, I may have elaborated in much more detail. I will strive to be better in the future when answering your email.
BTW, A few editorial comments for your post:
1. You misspelled my name - Hochheimer, not Hocheimer
2. When reporting someone’s response to a question, you should note where you add emphasis to that response. I wrote “No we are not.” We don’s want anyone getting the wrong impression of my response, do we?
Finally, it may be easier for people to remember my email as president@nar,org.
John Hochheimer
Ez2cDave
Well-Known Member
John,
Let's get this straight . . .
(1) I shared the exact, quoted email that I sent you.
(2) I posted the "essence" of your reply, without directly quoting you, including the fact that you did not elaborate further. I felt that directly quoting you was improper, on the open forum.
(3) I apologize for misspelling your name, a "typo".
(4) My capitalized "NOT" was intended only for clarity, nothing further.
(5) I suggested that people contact you directly, if they have any questions, in order to get the most accurate information.
So, since you have replied here and want to "elaborate more" . . .
Why is the NAR not extending Renewal Dates, while Tripoli is, thus looking out for the best interests of their Members, during the Coronavirus pandemic shutdown ?
Dave F.
Let's get this straight . . .
(1) I shared the exact, quoted email that I sent you.
(2) I posted the "essence" of your reply, without directly quoting you, including the fact that you did not elaborate further. I felt that directly quoting you was improper, on the open forum.
(3) I apologize for misspelling your name, a "typo".
(4) My capitalized "NOT" was intended only for clarity, nothing further.
(5) I suggested that people contact you directly, if they have any questions, in order to get the most accurate information.
So, since you have replied here and want to "elaborate more" . . .
Why is the NAR not extending Renewal Dates, while Tripoli is, thus looking out for the best interests of their Members, during the Coronavirus pandemic shutdown ?
Dave F.
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Dave,
I had to “show ignored content” to see what you posted that got John Hochheimer to post a response. I see that you’re trying to stir the pot between NAR and TRA. Stop it.
Tripoli stopped all activities and we don’t have the overhead they have of a magazine. NAR allowed individual launches to continue and they continued working on and delivering their magazine. They as a larger organization they also have more overhead than we do. If you’re trying to hurt NAR, that’s a good way to do it. Again, stop it. Your whining damages both organizations.
"Stop it", is that an order or a command? Someone voices an opinion, now that is whining? Did you think about what you wrote, before you wrote it, Mr. President?
I’m unsure what the difference is between an order and a command, but it’s neither. Dave should consider it as unsolicited advice. I have no authority over Dave’s posts, but he has a long record of trying to stir the pot. Why did you let my post bother you?
And I’m just Steve, not Mr. President.
Ez2cDave
Well-Known Member
Steve, John, & Whomever Else,
I simply asked legitimate questions, that affects thousands of Rocketeer's, in both organizations.
Early on, in another thread, I asked Tripoli President, Steve Shannon, about the possibility of compensating members, during the coronavirus pandemic shutdown. He responded that Tripoli had already been discussing that and was working on implementing whatever the policy would eventually be. At last report, Tripoli will be extending renewal dates for Members, during the shutdown. I thought that was great and wondered, openly, if the NAR was considering the same action.
No representative of the NAR ever responded in that thread. So, I contacted John Hochheimer, via email, which I posted here, and informed him of Tripoli's actions and asked him if the NAR was going to do the same thing for its Members. John's response was "No, we are not", with no further explanation or elaboration.
I was quite surprised by that answer and the blunt, abrupt nature of his response. I would have thought that the NAR would, without question, take action to support its Members, as Tripoli has done, during the Covid-19 shutdown. After all, the NAR has been deeply involved in Model Rocketry, nearly from the inception of the hobby, long before the advent of High-Power Rocketry or the creation of Tripoli.
I made no effort to "stir any pots", at all. Rather, I asked a logical question in a reasonable manner. The nature of the responses is what concerns me the most. Rather than speaking to the issue at hand, affecting all Members, the choice was to focus on me, as an individual. I have no "axe to grind" and was only seeking information.
Yes, I shared John Hochheimer's response on the Forum, as there had been no communication from NAR, on this issue, either on the Forum or in emails sent out to all Members. Rather than speculate, I suggested that anyone who had more questions to contact NAR President, John Hochheimer, directly, the source of the information in question. I had no further information that I could provide them, other than what was already posted by me.
There it is, in a nutshell . . .
Dave F.
I simply asked legitimate questions, that affects thousands of Rocketeer's, in both organizations.
Early on, in another thread, I asked Tripoli President, Steve Shannon, about the possibility of compensating members, during the coronavirus pandemic shutdown. He responded that Tripoli had already been discussing that and was working on implementing whatever the policy would eventually be. At last report, Tripoli will be extending renewal dates for Members, during the shutdown. I thought that was great and wondered, openly, if the NAR was considering the same action.
No representative of the NAR ever responded in that thread. So, I contacted John Hochheimer, via email, which I posted here, and informed him of Tripoli's actions and asked him if the NAR was going to do the same thing for its Members. John's response was "No, we are not", with no further explanation or elaboration.
I was quite surprised by that answer and the blunt, abrupt nature of his response. I would have thought that the NAR would, without question, take action to support its Members, as Tripoli has done, during the Covid-19 shutdown. After all, the NAR has been deeply involved in Model Rocketry, nearly from the inception of the hobby, long before the advent of High-Power Rocketry or the creation of Tripoli.
I made no effort to "stir any pots", at all. Rather, I asked a logical question in a reasonable manner. The nature of the responses is what concerns me the most. Rather than speaking to the issue at hand, affecting all Members, the choice was to focus on me, as an individual. I have no "axe to grind" and was only seeking information.
Yes, I shared John Hochheimer's response on the Forum, as there had been no communication from NAR, on this issue, either on the Forum or in emails sent out to all Members. Rather than speculate, I suggested that anyone who had more questions to contact NAR President, John Hochheimer, directly, the source of the information in question. I had no further information that I could provide them, other than what was already posted by me.
There it is, in a nutshell . . .
Dave F.
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DAllen
Well-Known Member
Nah...you're trolling. I know this because you've managed to piss off the presidents of both the NAR and TRA and got them to post in this thread. Not something I'd be proud of if it were me...But hey, you do you.
DaveW6DPS
Well-Known Member
Why showed ignored content, ever? If everyone just ignored trolls, maybe they will go away.
That would have been smart, but few people accuse me of being smart. I wanted to see what he said to John that referred to me. Over the past several years (even before we both were impresidented - I claim copyright on the new word) I became acquainted with John Hochheimer. Because our two organizations frequently face similar challenges we speak often. I suspected that Dave F was trying to play one of us against the other and so I looked. There will probably always be things that our organizations approach differently, and neither of us have a problem with that, but for Dave to partially relate private correspondence between John and himself, and then to publish John’s email in an effort to get other people to apply pressure, seemed pretty low to me so I spoke up.
You’re right, I should have stayed out of it and I regret that I didn’t.
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gldknght
Well-Known Member
The thing is, nar membership insurance covers us, even if we fly by ourselves, as long as we follow the Nar safety rules. My son and I can go out to the field we have permission to fly in, and launch rockets. We don't need a sanctioned launch. This means that my son and I are still able to do about 90% of our seasonal rocket flying.
I don't speak for anyone else here, but also I don't feel like the stop order on sanctioned launches is affecting us that much, so no need to adjust the current length of my Nar membership...
My two cents
P.S. I just read the posts about Nar NOT cancelling individual launches, so mine might seem a bit redundant. Also, where I am, we do NOT have 'stay at home' orders in place, but we are expected to use common sense about social distancing, etc. It seems to me that being outdoors in the sunlight, is about as effective at social distancing as possible.
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A Sanctioned Launch is any launch by a Tripoli member where all requirements of the Safety Codes are followed. That means that ordinarily, Tripoli members (and their children) are insured by Tripoli for individual launches. During the moratorium we simply halted all Sanctioned launches. As you point out that was different from NAR. That’s one of the major differences between NAR and Tripoli. Tripoli is primarily a high power and amateur Rocketry organization. NAR is Model Rocketry and high power but not the elements of amateur rocketry that comprise Tripoli Research Rocketry.
gldknght
Well-Known Member
Understood. Also, I expect most high power and amateur rocketry requires an Faa waiver, which most individuals do not get.
But. If an individual Tripoli member who is living in an area not under stay at home orders wants to launch, why did tripoli put a stop to that? It can't be the social distancing thing if it's one guy out in a corn field, or even a family. If they live together, it kind of nullifies the social distancing thing, right?
Also, what happens to the guy who is Nar AND Tripoli, not under a stay at home and goes out by himself to fly a high power rocket, assuming all local rules are followed? Nar says its ok, Tripoli says no. ??
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