This forum has changed...

[Bat-mite]

R.M.R. "Losing my Religion," "Stand," "Orange Crush," "The One I Love" ... No, something's not right.

 

[LW Bercini]

...But at the same time its is easy to get frustrated at the guy who just joined and asks questions that have tons of answers already on the forum if they only used the search feature...

This is where I must respectfully disagree. As a retired Data Architect I do not see "The Rocketry Form" as a knowledge repository. It's basic structure is to store "conversations". It is not truly organized topically. Yes, there are various topical subforums, but what I mean is, there is no good way to search by topic because there is no Wiki-like architecture to support curating topical knowledge.

For example, let's say the Noob wants to know whether Rustoleum is better than Krylon (Ok, I just made up something off the top of my head, I have no idea what kind of search results this will return - just go with the concept). There is no topical organization which consolidates information about paint characteristics. Instead, the search will return every single mention of the words "Krylon" and "Rustoleum". Can you imagine how many hits that will be?

For the Noob, how useful is the search result "my local store carries both Krylon and Rustoleum"? In addition, the noob may not know to look for abbreviated terms. Therefore, the noob will completely miss the answer he is looking for, because the keyword does not match: "I prefer 2X over Krylon for the following reasons..."

The existing search feature quite often is not the solution to a noob's question. Yes, sometimes it is, but depending on the keywords involved, quite often the search yields a lot of useless information. If seeing the same question over and over again annoys you (that's you plural), scroll on past. Else, attempt to answer the question. Simply telling a noob to "do a search" is often bad advice.

 

[HVArcas]

I agree with that sentiment in general, and I would be most happy if the big social media sites would collectively die in a fire (especially Facebook). But it's also
worthwhile to remember that Back In The Old Days™ before modern social media there was Usenet, and to put it kindly it was not for the faint-hearted. That's where flaming was, if not invented (debatable), then at least elevated to a perverse art form. Even at its worst, TRF is like a meditation class compared to that.

I love that some of you guys remember usenet! I am an oldhead for sure.

But I think the key difference is that back in those days, internet users were the minority. Now the internet has become the default media for communication for all humans also the population seems to be expanding at a crazy rate. I try to explain this to other old guys, that civilization fundamentally changes when we reach a certain population density. Lots of us do not get it, though.

 

[HVArcas]

This is where I must respectfully disagree. As a retired Data Architect I do not see "The Rocketry Form" as a knowledge repository. It's basic structure is to store "conversations". It is not truly organized topically. Yes, there are various topical subforums, but what I mean is, there is no good way to search by topic because there is no Wiki-like architecture to support curating topical knowledge.

For example, let's say the Noob wants to know whether Rustoleum is better than Krylon (Ok, I just made up something off the top of my head, I have no idea what kind of search results this will return - just go with the concept). There is no topical organization which consolidates information about paint characteristics. Instead, the search will return every single mention of the words "Krylon" and "Rustoleum". Can you imagine how many hits that will be?

For the Noob, how useful is the search result "my local store carries both Krylon and Rustoleum"? In addition, the noob may not know to look for abbreviated terms. Therefore, the noob will completely miss the answer he is looking for, because the keyword does not match: "I prefer 2X over Krylon for the following reasons..."

The existing search feature quite often is not the solution to a noob's question. Yes, sometimes it is, but depending on the keywords involved, quite often the search yields a lot of useless information. If seeing the same question over and over again annoys you (that's you plural), scroll on past. Else, attempt to answer the question. Simply telling a noob to "do a search" is often bad advice.

+1 lots of like

 

[HVArcas]

<g> When has the internet ever been anything else?

I remember when AOL opened its Internet Gateway. Before that, about 30% of the content on every usenet forum was an argument about netiquette that started out as an argument about something else. The other 70% of the content was users fretting that they didn't want the thread to degenerate into a flame war -- punctuated by reminiscences about how much better the SNR was back in the ARPAnet days. After the AOL newbies showed up, 90% of the content was explaining jargon and telling users NOT TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS -- then it all turned back into noise about how noisy usenet had become. If anything has changed, its that everybody is now an annoying noob who didn't have to learn any VMS or UNIX commands to get into the party (and the word "netiquette" now sounds quaint).

But I will accept @afterburner's assessment that there has been a change in tone on this forum in the

since they joined on May 8, 2012....wait.

insert >smiley< to indicate good-natured ribbing

Hah, all good points that i easily could have quoted instead of the other post. I will also point out that join dates do not indicate when a human behind the keyboard started reading (or even writing to) a forum..

 

[Hooked On Rockets]

This is where I must respectfully disagree. As a retired Data Architect I do not see "The Rocketry Form" as a knowledge repository. It's basic structure is to store "conversations". It is not truly organized topically. Yes, there are various topical subforums, but what I mean is, there is no good way to search by topic because there is no Wiki-like architecture to support curating topical knowledge.

For example, let's say the Noob wants to know whether Rustoleum is better than Krylon (Ok, I just made up something off the top of my head, I have no idea what kind of search results this will return - just go with the concept). There is no topical organization which consolidates information about paint characteristics. Instead, the search will return every single mention of the words "Krylon" and "Rustoleum". Can you imagine how many hits that will be?

For the Noob, how useful is the search result "my local store carries both Krylon and Rustoleum"? In addition, the noob may not know to look for abbreviated terms. Therefore, the noob will completely miss the answer he is looking for, because the keyword does not match: "I prefer 2X over Krylon for the following reasons..."

The existing search feature quite often is not the solution to a noob's question. Yes, sometimes it is, but depending on the keywords involved, quite often the search yields a lot of useless information. If seeing the same question over and over again annoys you (that's you plural), scroll on past. Else, attempt to answer the question. Simply telling a noob to "do a search" is often bad advice.

+1!! Perfect Point!!

"What am I doing to make it better?"

I posted an "idea" question thread about 10 days ago..

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/an-idea-for-a-my-projects-folder-button.157552/

..to make it easier for noobs (like me) to be able to find build threads from members by clicking on the profile and finding a "My Projects" folder intended mainly FOR a person's build thread. That way if a noob (or anyone else) sees something they like in the "What I did for Rocketry" post, or any other thread, they can find the questions that aren't answered if that person adds it to their "My Projects" folder. The idea is for builders to limit this mostly to build threads or techniques that may help fellow members, I know it could be abused but it could be a way to help consolidate/simplify access to a builders production.

I got 2 replies,
one was mine giving up and the other was a misunderstanding (my fault, I wasn't clear enough I guess in my language, which I'll try to edit)

I'm not sure how the "old days" were but the points of the OP and others do ring a bell.

SS

 

[Hooked On Rockets]

Since I'm mainly a kit modifier and don't build scratch designs, I have a hard time deciding a rocket is worth a build thread. Most of the time I'll just post occasional updates on the Today thread

Things like putting a 38mm mount in an AT G-force, or putting basswood skins on a Star Orbiter just don't seem like beneficial threads.

For me THAT"S the kind of projects that deserve a build thread, to push the "edge" on a standard kit that a semi-seasoned noobie can get inspiration from to "build it THEIR WAY".

Almost anyone can do it like everyone else, sorta..lol
But please people, share the "non-standard" kit builds, I think those inspire "pushing the envelope" in a safe way to do it if they have some experienced builders showing how and why they "upsize" a standard kit, instead of doing things blind.

SS

 

[jlabrasca]

I try to explain this to other old guys, that civilization fundamentally changes when we reach a certain population density. Lots of us do not get it, though.

February 2020 National Geographic includes a nice pictorial feature about how locusts go from solitary and mostly harmless to social and destructively voracious. When enough locusts collect in one spot that they can rub against each others legs -- basically jogging each other's elbows -- their behavior changes dramatically. Imagine the plagues if they didn't need physical proximity to be triggered, if they could annoy/encourage each other at a distance over social media.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

I want to launch a rocket to space from my backyard as a jr high school project.

Lmfao.... Forgot to add needs sugar fuel and pvc motor casing... Looooooool

 

[HVArcas]

February 2020 National Geographic includes a nice pictorial feature about how locusts go from solitary and mostly harmless to social and destructively voracious. When enough locusts collect in one spot that they can rub against each others legs -- basically jogging each other's elbows -- their behavior changes dramatically. Imagine the plagues if they didn't need physical proximity to be triggered, if they could annoy/encourage each other at a distance over social media.

lol post/metaphor of the year so far

 

[Woody's Workshop]

I agree with LW Bercini. I have tried numerous times to search for something I know is there, yet can't find it.
One spends much time looking through non-relative material which ends in frustration and a post similar to, "Does anyone remember".
I will never knock anyone for asking a question. Most welcomes to new people include, "If you have a question, just ask".
I think that is the biggest part of this forum, is helping others evolve to be better and safer model rocket hobbyists.

 

[Dipstick]

I actually have found more success searching in Google, tagging "the rocketry forum"

Seems to work pretty good.

 

[Glasspack]

Fair Enough... I also know the frustration with the search engine within the forum...……. Its not perfect ….However it is in fact still usable and a way to find information your looking for.
and LW, it may not be an information repository like your thinking, but it is filled with experience from many people on many aspects of Model Rocketry..... THAT is what makes it so nice.

I Enjoy the Rocketry Forum !

 

[Glasspack]

Oops.... Double Post

 

[scadaman29325]

Has someone said, I'm offended that somebody else is offended?

I'm still using 1/8" rods with a $20/wk hobby budget, but one of the first threads i saw on my return to the hobby was a parts sale talking about 8" diameter, 8' motor tube that knocked me out of my chair. Then I heard a problem about a failed R motor project that seemed to upset some people.

IT'S A HOBBY, sometimes money is wasted under the umbrella of 'we are having fun', breaking golf clubs, crashing race cars, buying the wrong part for your launch pad...

Wait, is this the right thread for that?

IDK, I may need to delete this later.

 

[Gramparocket]

Consider this, I am an old Rocketeer. Been building and flying rocket since the 70s, but I'm new to the forum I'm not a tech geek so I don't know how to do advance searches, all I can do is type a word or phrase into a search window and click the button search. So when I do that I have to pour through post and post and post after post to find what I'm looking for, but not find the answer. I don't see the problem with asking a question. The forum is supposed to be the place where I to can go to find the information I'm looking for. I hope we can all agree on that. I Google it I may not necessarily find rocket information and it may take me hours and hours to come up with nothin. At some point I'm going to be frustrated and I'm going to give up the search be very unhappy and all I needed in the first place was a friendly poster in the rocketry forum to answer my question. Just saying....

 

[neil_w]

There is no problem with asking questions. Searching this forum can be very challenging unless you really know exactly what you're searching for. A good index of useful content here would be of incalculable value, but there's really no way such a thing will ever happen.

On the other hand, it is good forum etiquette to make at least a passing attempt to find what you need before you ask. At least sometimes you can get lucky and find it. You get better at it as you go.

Note that it is also not a problem if someone responds to a question by pointing you to an existing thread where that question has already been addressed.

 

[Gramparocket]

Well said. Posting a link to the topic is a great solution. I just don't get why anyone would post an answer like
"just Google it"

 

[cwbullet]

You mean:

 

[ThreeJsDad]

I might as well chime in because I am right in the middle of this in so many ways. I am a master when it comes to fabrication methods and materials but I have been out of rocketry for some time. I am also a troglodyte when it comes to electronics so I maybe knowledgeable in some areas and ask the most simple questions on other subject areas. Very often I do a search and get very little to no pertinent information. I then post a question to the forum members. Thus far I have not had my head ripped off even when asking some very stupid questions.

I believe if we all act like the adults we are with the hearts of children we can all get along and have a great time.

While I'm writing, does anyone have an M mtotor my buddy and I can bolt to the bottom of my neighbors red flyer wagon??? Helmets would be nice as well...LOL, LOL

 

[jlabrasca]

Well said. Posting a link to the topic is a great solution. I just don't get why anyone would post an answer like
"just Google it"

If you start you post with something like "I searched the forum, but couldn't find a recent/relevant thread about this problem..." well, you are still going to get a "just google it" response from the jerks because they are jerks.

I do occasionally have the fleeting urge to hit the caps lock and type "Maybe you could read the previous posts in this thread!" or "Did you even read all the way through the OP's question!?" But it happens often enough that the author of the misdirected bloviation will come back to amend the response and/or to apologize for having missed the point of the discussion that I (usually?) wait for the OP or somebody else to post the correction.

Edit: Never mind the fact that I am a professional bloviator who resides at the intersection of overconfidence and cluelessness.

 

[Gramparocket]

I have some helmets I'll donate but only if i can ride shotgun

 

[cwbullet]

If you start you post with something like "I searched the forum, but couldn't find a recent/relevant thread about this problem..." well, you are still going to get a "just google it" response from the jerks because they are jerks.

I do occasionally have the fleeting urge to hit the caps lock and type "Maybe you could read the previous posts in this thread!" or "Did you even read all the way through the OP's question!?" But it happens often enough that the author of the misdirected bloviation will come back to amend the response and/or to apologize for having missed the point of the discussion that I (usually?) wait for the OP or somebody else to post the correction.

Edit: Never mind the fact that I am a professional bloviator who resides at the intersection of overconfidence and cluelessness.

I am not so sure it is just because they are “jerks”. I post the image above for humor alone. It is easy to become frustrated with the endless onslaught on new users that ask the same list of question weekly or even daily. We just have to keep reminding ourselves that we were new to the forum once also.

 

[Arsenal78]

Well said. Posting a link to the topic is a great solution. I just don't get why anyone would post an answer like
"just Google it"

Everytime I see see someone comment “just google it” instead of actually answering the question, I want to strangle them. I agree with you that people could link an existing thread on a subject. If everyone googled everything, this forum would be useless.

 

[jlabrasca]

We just have to keep reminding ourselves that we were new to the forum once also.

Just so. I submit that a person who does not consider this or, rather, a person who does not pause to ask "what if our roles were reversed" is a pretty good definition of a jerk.

I have been a jerk more times than I like to think about. I am probably being a jerk right now. I doubtless have been a massive and insufferable jerk at exactly the wrong time for somebody who needed me not to be a jerk -- and about things of greater moment than "I am bored with Estes model rockets. I have an idea for using old propane tanks as rocket motors. Does anybody know where I can buy blue-tipped kitchen matches at wholesale prices?"

 

[ewomack]

When I returned to rocketry this past summer after an eon hiatus, I starting posting a slew of newbie questions to this forum. Probably well over a dozen in the course of a month or so. Some of them had to be repeats from distant past threads, but a search didn't reveal any predecessors. So I posted these questions and received nothing but patient, kind and very helpful replies. Some of those threads seem to still be going. Though I have a pretty thick skin, I don't recall a single person coming across as a jerk. No one told me to "just google that." No one talked down to me. That's why I kept coming back and will keep coming back, despite currently being in a rocketry weather hibernation.

 

[cwbullet]

Just so. I submit that a person who does not consider this or, rather, a person who does not pause to ask "what if our roles were reversed" is a pretty good definition of a jerk.

I have been a jerk more times than I like to think about. I am probably being a jerk right now. I doubtless have been a massive and insufferable jerk at exactly the wrong time for somebody who needed me not to be a jerk -- and about things of greater moment than "I am bored with Estes model rockets. I have an idea for using old propane tanks as rocket motors. Does anybody know where I can buy blue-tipped kitchen matches at wholesale prices?"

At least, you can acknowledge it.

 

[Nytrunner]

When I returned to rocketry this past summer after an eon hiatus, I starting posting a slew of newbie questions to this forum. Probably well over a dozen in the course of a month or so. Some of them had to be repeats from distant past threads, but a search didn't reveal any predecessors. So I posted these questions and received nothing but patient, kind and very helpful replies. Some of those threads seem to still be going. Though I have a pretty thick skin, I don't recall a single person coming across as a jerk. No one told me to "just google that." No one talked down to me. That's why I kept coming back and will keep coming back, despite currently being in a rocketry weather hibernation.

You did own the new member forum for a month or two.

 

[Greg Furtman]

I must admit that searching for something on TRF is a pain. Results are totally random. No way to sort by date or alphabetically. And it would be nice if all the search results that end up going to the same thread were grouped together. I wish the software writers had given searching a higher priority as there is a wealth of information here, if you can find it.

 

[neil_w]

I must admit that searching for something on TRF is a pain. Results are totally random. No way to sort by date or alphabetically. And it would be nice if all the search results that end up going to the same thread were grouped together. I wish the software writers had given searching a higher priority as there is a wealth of information here, if you can find it.

+1 to all of this. The search function in this forum is much less useful than it could be.