I think I did add the second statement a moment later via edit. In any case... no worries. 
Pictures of New 2020 Release Estes Rockets
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BSNW
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I think I did add the second statement a moment later via edit. In any case... no worries.
Interesting........ Thanks
dr wogz
Fly caster
Maybe Estes could take a page from Costco: Sell the PSII line like they do their rotisserie chicken.. Sell it at a loss, knowing they will be in to buy a chicken, and, then buy other things..
https://www.thekitchn.com/costco-chicken-loss-leader-strategy-260017
(And I, personally, thank you for buying a chicken! you keep me employed! )
https://www.thekitchn.com/costco-chicken-loss-leader-strategy-260017
(And I, personally, thank you for buying a chicken! you keep me employed!
)
Nytrunner
Pop lugs, not drugs
What other things?
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I like the PSII (easy to build) models, but I did get them on clearance from Estes. I flew the Prowler with booster, and that was fun to watch.
dr wogz
Fly caster
as the article says, people come in for the chicken, but leave with a cart-load of stuff.. "Oh, since I'm here, I might as well get ... "
Costco "Impulse buys" can add up!!
Maybe Estes could take a page from Costco: Sell the PSII line like they do their rotisserie chicken.. Sell it at a loss, knowing they will be in to buy a chicken, and, then buy other things..
https://www.thekitchn.com/costco-chicken-loss-leader-strategy-260017
(And I, personally, thank you for buying a chicken! you keep me employed!
Dog food, hummus, wine, ... and a chicken !
ebruce1361
The man with the plan. And some duct tape.
Or maybe a weekly special kind of thing that frequently features the Pro Series II kits. Like @dr wogz said, sell whatever is in the special at a steep discount that will not actually be profitable, but also offer incentives to purchase other things like motors, similar kits, apparel, etc along with the weekly sale. For example, a kit could be on sale for 40% as it is, but if you buy two packs of motors for that rocket at full price, the kit drops to 75% off. Or buy two PS II kits at full price, get a third free, plus a rotisserie chicken.
Nytrunner
Pop lugs, not drugs
I don't buy that. The uber-rocketeer and forumite that would impulse blow money like that at estes is a small fraction of the market. They'd have to slash the price too far to entice other single purchasers, and they still wouldn't sell to school type bulk customers.
Costco operates at scale where that is effective, Estes...probably doesn't (I haven't peaked into their books)
Plus, flying those things requires large launch areas that the average consumer doesn't know how to find/access.
dr wogz
Fly caster
hey, it's an idea, not a solution.. I chose engineering over marketing for a reason!
Sell them at a reduce profit, knowing that the die-hards / the true rocketeers / the fanatics will snarf them up, and then start to want more & more.. I do like the idea of a 'scale up' of certain kits..
Sell them at a reduce profit, knowing that the die-hards / the true rocketeers / the fanatics will snarf them up, and then start to want more & more.. I do like the idea of a 'scale up' of certain kits..
To avoid any future BATFE crap, I like the use of the term "Motivator" . . . Nice & "generic" with no reference to any rocket, explosive, or pyrotechnic specific processes, devices, or chemicals.
Dave F.
Thanks. I was wondering about the Side Kick. A previous photo on another thread was cut off and showed only the two noses. Looks like a twin engine clustered model with streamer recovery. Maybe mini engine powered? We shall see.
ebruce1361
The man with the plan. And some duct tape.
Looking at that poster, the fins on the TAZZ make more sense. At first I thought it was meant to spin during ascent like the old Corkscrew rocket, but it actually seems to be meant for helicopter recovery. In fact, it looks and appears to function a lot like Semroc's Gyroc https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-4-Model-Rocket-Kits/Semroc-Gyroc?cPath=1_307&
EDIT: I started reading the description of the Semroc Gyroc on Apogee's website, and the Gyroc was originally an Estes kit from 1983. I guess that's what I get for not having been alive at the time, and having limited familiarity with 80s era designs. Carry on.
EDIT: I started reading the description of the Semroc Gyroc on Apogee's website, and the Gyroc was originally an Estes kit from 1983. I guess that's what I get for not having been alive at the time, and having limited familiarity with 80s era designs. Carry on.
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Yes, the Tazz is basically an upscaled Gyroc, with some bits of modernization. I'll almost certainly get one; love rockets that don't need wadding and parachute prep.
turbofireball
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The Sidekick recommended engines are either two B4-4 or two B6-4, and recovery is by two mylar streamers.
...
the Gyroc was originally an Estes kit from 1983. I guess that's what I get for not having been alive at the time, and having limited familiarity with 80s era designs. Carry on.
We've all made the mistake of believing the world sprang from nothingness when we were born.
Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear: the 1967 Estes catalog and the first appearance of the Astron Gyroc:
https://vintageestesrockets.com/k-kit-registry/kits/k24-astron-gyroc.htm
2 C6 7 with stock Starters! All plastic. Tons of clustering fun! It might, however, get a nickname like "RSO Frightening Machine!"
Nytrunner
Pop lugs, not drugs
Dangit I need to build down my project pile under 5 kits again.
The sidekick and SST are really blinking at me
The sidekick and SST are really blinking at me
ebruce1361
The man with the plan. And some duct tape.
It might, however, get a nickname like "RSO Frightening Machine!"
Yeah, I'd like to see some stability test flights done with just one motor intentionally lit to see how squirrely it gets when one igniter fails. Given how wide those fins are and the total length, I feel like it would behave like most other two motor clusters when one fails, but the added dynamic of having the body tubes separated like that makes visualizing the physics confusing. Can the Sidekick be built in Openrocket and behave accurately?
I'm waiting to see what these really look like, especially the SST. These low-res pictures are killing me.
It could be built in the next release version (still in alpha). "Behave accurately"? Who knows at this point...
Would Rocksim be likely to behave accurately for something like this?
Nytrunner
Pop lugs, not drugs
Best bet? Make tube model with equivalent cross sectional area (you'll still be lacking some surface area, but oh well). I'm not aware of if a cluster'd mount can be simmed with only one motor
Maybe Rocsim can model a two-body rocket
The original Orange Bullet was a motor spitter. If the new one follows suit it might get the RSO stinkeye as well.
https://spacemodeling.org/jimz/eirp_03.htm
https://spacemodeling.org/jimz/eirp_03.htm
ebruce1361
The man with the plan. And some duct tape.
I'd be inclined to think that it is considering that the Mosquito is and it has remained a staple of their lineup for decades and uses the same recovery method. Additionally, it seems to be along the same lines as the Tazz in the sense that they are bringing old favorite kits out of mothballs and giving them a fresh introduction to appease older collectors who may have had one years ago.
rharshberger
Well-Known Member
AFAIK few clubs restrict motor spitters, competition being an exception. Most intentionally spit motors tend to land near the pads, and very few seem to end up in spectator areas (it happens a handful of times each year) whether intentional or not. IMO its mainly the larger 24mm, 29mm and metal cased reloadable motors we need to be worrying about being spit out than 13mm and 18mm carboard case motors.
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The motors are not that far off center, it’s not like these are outboard motors at the edge of fins.
I would be less concerned about the eccentric thrust than I would regarding the sufficient thrust if only one motor lights. That’s mainly because TWO motors make a lot of tail weight. I am guessing Estes has tested it with only one motor lighting. The other HARD part is the new Starters, yes they do work most of the time if installed properly, but people do say you have to hold the button down longer. Higher chance that one motor is going to light and take the candle off the pad before the other motor lights.
Scott_650
Well-Known Member
Estes hasn’t done a cluster in a while.
I was told the Sidekick has been throughly tested and will fly on one motor, just lower with more of an arc. Nice to see an idiot proof cluster rocket for the kids and even the much older kids.
Would it be too big of a leap to infer that since they're coming out with a clustered engine kit, MAYBE they're coming out with better starters too? Hopefully?
