Pro Series II going away?

[BRS Hobbies]

Bottom line, most of the PS II kits didn't sell all that well. The Estes site had a lot of them on sale at deep discounts for quite awhile. Going forward, I think the best strategy for Estes would be to release PS II upscales of the really popular model rocket kits.

 

[kuririn]

(and it confirms my Cherokee up/downscale naming sequence hypothesis)

So, the Semroc MX Cherokee should be the Cherokee 1/8A?

 

[SaintJohn]

Bottom line, most of the PS II kits didn't sell all that well. The Estes site had a lot of them on sale at deep discounts for quite awhile. Going forward, I think the best strategy for Estes would be to release PS II upscales of the really popular model rocket kits.

I think that would be a cool way to go forward with the PSII lineup. I’m currently building the Super Big Bertha.

 

[Scott_650]

I have two unbuilt PSII builder kits waiting - Ventris and Panavia. My E2X PSII Rockets - Trajector and Mammoth - are nice fliers, especially the Mammoth. And, even if it’s a bit contrarian not to like the Big Bertha design, the Super Big Bertha is becoming a favorite flier too. After building the SBB I really hope future PSII rockets follow it’s lead with more upscales of classic designs.

 

[BRS Hobbies]

Does the PS II Super Big Bertha have through the wall fins or just surface mount?

 

[Scott_650]

TTW - you do have to cut the slots but since it’s a fairly lightweight body tube it’s not difficult.

 

[K'Tesh]

(and it confirms my Cherokee up/downscale naming sequence hypothesis)

The likely reason for the naming sequence is due to how, back in the day, Estes F*** Up, and didn't renew the rights to the names on many classic kits. This allowed Karl McLawhorn to buy them up for Semroc. Now, Semroc (both under Karl, and under Randy), and Estes have a decent working relationship, but since Semroc has their own Retro-Reproduction of the Cherokee D, Estes is doing a workaround.

And I still have to say that if the letter doesn't rhyme with D, it's going to sound weird to my ears. B, C, E, G, P, T, V, Z all sound ok (read that as "just ok", not as an "AWESOME OK!"), but the rest REALLY just don't make the cut.

 

[BRS Hobbies]

It's named Cherokee-E since it's now made to take Estes E engines. Makes sense to me.

 

[Nytrunner]

If you make one with a 75mm mount, it sure as heck ain't "D-powered" anymore.....

Hmm....
Cherokee A 13mm
Cherokee C 18mm
Cherokee D/E 24mm
Cherokee G 29mm
Cherokee I 38mm
Cherokee K 54mm
Cherokee M 75mm
Cherokee N 98mm

 

[K'Tesh]

If you make one with a 75mm mount, it sure as heck ain't "D-powered" anymore.....

Hmm....
Cherokee A 13mm
Cherokee C 18mm
Cherokee D/E 24mm
Cherokee G 29mm
Cherokee I 38mm
Cherokee K 54mm
Cherokee M 75mm
Cherokee N 98mm

In my upscale/redshifted designs, I kept the Cherokee-D name. But I changed the "D POWER" decal to match the new diameter of the motor. IMHO, it looks better that way, and is never wrong (unless I blueshift it with an adapter).

I think about it like this... the "D" in Cherokee-D is part of its name, and not about how large a motor it has. It may have started out that way, but it's evolved this way. a D powered D Region Tomahawk isn't going to be renamed a N Region Tomahawk with a redshifted upscale (admittedly, I don't know if there is such a region in space, but hopefully you get the point).

 

[Nytrunner]

In my upscale/redshifted designs, I kept the Cherokee-D name. But I changed the "D POWER" decal to match the new diameter of the motor. IMHO, it looks better that way, and is never wrong (unless I blueshift it with an adapter).

I think about it like this... the "D" in Cherokee-D is part of its name, and not about how large a motor it has. It may have started out that way, but it's evolved this way. a D powered D Region Tomahawk isn't going to be renamed a N Region Tomahawk with a redshifted upscale (admittedly, I don't know if there is such a region in space, but hopefully you get the point).

I do not agree, and likely won't in the foreseeable future. I will side with practicality over tradition any day.
Fortunately, it's a big hobby and we can coexist regardless; both reserving the right to make fun of things that seem odd to us. (not like it's the first time we see things differently. I rarely texture my sims since they'll compute the same anyway )

The whole cherokee-D name was centered around its powerplant: the oh-so-mighty D. If the powerplant changes......
The D-region tomahawk was the name of an actual sounding rocket. Nothing to do with model rocket motors.

 

[K'Tesh]

So, the Semroc MX Cherokee should be the Cherokee 1/8A?

When I was asked about this before it went into production. I advocated to keep the name "Cherokee-D", and change the "POWER" decal to "MX POWER". While I was overruled on the official name (MX Cherokee), It looks like I prevailed on the decals.

 

[K'Tesh]

I do not agree, and likely won't in the foreseeable future. I will side with practicality over tradition any day.
Fortunately, it's a big hobby and we can coexist regardless; both reserving the right to make fun of things that seem odd to us. (not like it's the first time we see things differently. I rarely texture my sims since they'll compute the same anyway )

The whole cherokee-D name was centered around its powerplant: the oh-so-mighty D. If the powerplant changes......
The D-region tomahawk was the name of an actual sounding rocket. Nothing to do with model rocket motors.

We clearly don't agree on the name. And the important thing is that's OK. There are likely those who have never even painted or decaled a rocket "Stock" . As long as the rockets are made and flown safely, and they're having fun, that's what matters.

As to practicality vs tradition: My practicality has that the name stays the same and the "POWER" decal changes to reflect the changes made (besides, it makes making the decals that much easier to do (you don't have as much trouble trying to match the fonts)). Among the many joys of Autism, is the OCD that comes along with it... It doesn't mean "you're wrong and I'm right", it just means that my lack of tact will always make me feel there's a right way and a wrong way, and hopefully I will manage to not open my mouth and insert foot when I see "oddly" named Cherokee-Ds. Though I will forever maintain my position here vs a couple of unnamed former members here who love to bash TRF over on YORF.

 

[Nytrunner]

I finished a rocket stock once, it was boring

As long as the rockets are made and flown safely, and they're having fun, that's what matters.

And in this we can agree 100%!

 

[neil_w]

The problem is they will want to use different names for different rockets. Can't have a bunch of different rockets called "Cherokee D". Much like the "mini" or "maxi" versions of various rockets have those words in their name, so you can tell them apart. So I'm OK with the name change, despite not totally disagreeing with K'Tesh's point.

All of which is somewhat besides the point: it's cool that this rocket is available again in some form, although I'm not sure I'm totally down with the blue livery.

 

[Nytrunner]

I am! I like blue!

although I'm not sure I'm totally down with the blue livery.

 

[SammyD]

IIRC California had a fear that the glues involved may be toxic if injested... Like we regularly taste our rockets.

That's California for you.........

 

[K'Tesh]

The problem is they will want to use different names for different rockets. Can't have a bunch of different rockets called "Cherokee D". Much like the "mini" or "maxi" versions of various rockets have those words in their name, so you can tell them apart. So I'm OK with the name change, despite not totally disagreeing with K'Tesh's point.

All of which is somewhat besides the point: it's cool that this rocket is available again in some form, although I'm not sure I'm totally down with the blue livery.

Actually, I'm OK with the various Mini, Maxi, and Super names I've seen. It doesn't take away from the name, and you can get a faithful upscale/downscale. Even the addition of the "E" in the Interceptor E is fine, and If Estes wanted to come out with a "F" model of it, that'd be cool too. I read that as the variant of the aircraft, much like the B-17G... Though upon typing that, I didn't call the F-111Es I worked on as "Aardvark E"... Nor the EF-111As as "Raven A" (I alternatively used a lot of... let's just say "colorful metaphors", "(Earth) Pig" (the Afrikaans origin of the word "aardvark"), and SparkVark). Perhaps the VariEze to the Long-EZ may be a better example... Nope... Still.

Oh... and I'm not down on the blue livery or the stretched nature of it... Makes the nosecone look too short. That, and that much blue isn't a color I associate much with Native American designs. Perhaps a little in bead work, or turquoise, but not in those patterns.

Have we taken this thread off the rails or what?

 

[rharshberger]

Same here Cherokee-D, and 98mm Power.

In my upscale/redshifted designs, I kept the Cherokee-D name. But I changed the "D POWER" decal to match the new diameter of the motor. IMHO, it looks better that way, and is never wrong (unless I blueshift it with an adapter).

I think about it like this... the "D" in Cherokee-D is part of its name, and not about how large a motor it has. It may have started out that way, but it's evolved this way. a D powered D Region Tomahawk isn't going to be renamed a N Region Tomahawk with a redshifted upscale (admittedly, I don't know if there is such a region in space, but hopefully you get the point).

 

[Zman1961]

I think the real appeal of the now discontinued PS II kits was and is that they are as close to HPR as you can get and still be MPR. I was fortunate in that I became a BAR at the tail end of the "beefier" PS II kit availability (at close-out prices) at the same time I joined TRA. So the building tips I got from club members allowed to to use and learn HPR techniques on relatively cheap MPR kits that were so well designed they could take the added couple of ounces (epoxy, eye bolts, kevlar recovery harness) and still fly straight as an arrow. Many people did convert them to HPR. Using the AP motors was plus for me as it was a new skill to learn to transition to HPR. I still like to launch LPR and MPR, but am now level 1 certified. I recently obtained the parts from Estes and Erockets to clone the MDRM. I got two sets of parts, and will build one with a 38mm engine mount, balanced appropriately. There is a cool factor to upscaling the kits we made as kids, to echo a few of the posts above.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I think the real appeal of the now discontinued PS II kits was and is that they are as close to HPR as you can get and still be MPR. I was fortunate in that I became a BAR at the tail end of the "beefier" PS II kit availability (at close-out prices) at the same time I joined TRA. So the building tips I got from club members allowed to to use and learn HPR techniques on relatively cheap MPR kits that were so well designed they could take the added couple of ounces (epoxy, eye bolts, kevlar recovery harness) and still fly straight as an arrow. Many people did convert them to HPR. Using the AP motors was plus for me as it was a new skill to learn to transition to HPR. I still like to launch LPR and MPR, but am now level 1 certified. I recently obtained the parts from Estes and Erockets to clone the MDRM. I got two sets of parts, and will build one with a 38mm engine mount, balanced appropriately. There is a cool factor to upscaling the kits we made as kids, to echo a few of the posts above.

The now discontinued PSII kits were what opened up a whole new level of rocketry for me.

Over the years, I had gotten back into rocketry a few times when nephews or the children of my friends got to an age I thought they might enjoy it. We would fly some Estes kits on 18mm black powder motors for awhile like I did when I was a kid, and eventually they would get over it and move on to other interests, and I would drop out of rocketry again.

Around the time the PSII kits were coming out, I was teaching a nephew about rockets, and I decided to build a Maxi Alpha III, which was a big step up in size for me, and I really liked it and enjoyed the bigger D and E motors. I bought another large E-powered kit that had some defective parts, and during the warranty return found out it was OOP, so Estes agreed to send me a Leviathan instead!

When that kit arrived, I felt like I had crossed over into a whole new world of Big-Boy Rockets! Heavy 3” tubes, plywood parts, nylon parachutes, big size, composite motors! It required more advanced building techniques, so I got more involved with the forum. It was too big for the schoolyard, so I got involved with a local club. It’s what turned rocketry into an adult hobby for me, not something I did with kids. I got my L1 on an MDRM I had modified.

I’ll probably always be a bit nostalgic for the PSII builder kits as my intro into MPR and HPR.

 

[SaintJohn]

I think ultimately it comes down to what makes sense for Estes. They want to make kits that use their engines, and from a business perspective that makes total sense. I’d be perfectly happy to see some more kits that are along the same lines as Star Orbiter and Super Big Bertha that use balsa and the 29mm black powder engines.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I think ultimately it comes down to what makes sense for Estes. They want to make kits that use their engines, and from a business perspective that makes total sense. I’d be perfectly happy to see some more kits that are along the same lines as Star Orbiter and Super Big Bertha that use balsa and the 29mm black powder engines.

This is what makes sense to me too. I like the 29mm BP motors. I like the low-thrust, long burn and rockets like the Super Big Bertha do great on those. More builder BT80 kits designed for those motors would be great.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I know a guy from my local rocket club who makes clones of some of the early PSII kits like the Leviathan, Argent, MDRM, etc. He does a great job, and the kits are upgraded with things like Kevlar shock cords. I think you can find them on Facebook Marketplace. Or if you want a contact, PM me.

EDIT: Here’s a build thread of one of the clones. https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/leviathing-build-for-lvl-1-cert.153686/

 

[Ez2cDave]

Sounds to me like California should leave and become its own country. All the weird laws and prohibited item lists come from there.

Don't "tease" me . . . Just "make it so" !

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Sounds to me like California should leave and become its own country. All the weird laws and prohibited item lists come from there.

There are definitely a lot of Californians who would love to split off and form another country, but then the rest of the country would probably go bankrupt or fragment even further into rich and poor states. You wouldn’t want to end up in one of the landlocked states with no seaports, no tax base, and no diversified economy. And you would have to come to us for your edible plywood supplies. We’d definitely have you over a barrel there, and you’d have to pay a pretty penny or end up having to eat the poisonous plywood.

 

[lowga]

Great...now I gotta make a trip to Hobby Lobby to look for these new exclusive kits.

I'd love to see PSII issues of old Centuri and Estes classics. Goblin, Groove Tube, etc. Upscales of those rockets would be super fun and instant collectibles.

Kudos to all the great work being done at Estes!

 

[Zman1961]

One thing that has eased continuation of building the OOP PS II rockets is the outstanding customer service support from Estes. I was even able to obtain a factory version of the PDF of the fin pattern for the MDRM. I eventually opted for the Erockets fin sets as the bulk uncut wood would have cost almost as much, but Estes supports these efforts when it could easily ignore hobbyist requests. They have always provided quick resolution of missing or defective parts. I hope they continue to listen to our requests for what we want to build and launch.

 

[Jeff Curtis]

For anyone interested, Animal motor Works shows 12 Partizon PS II kits in stock at $40 apiece.

 

[Sonic]

For anyone interested, Animal motor Works shows 12 Partizon PS II kits in stock at $40 apiece.

Thank you. Picked one up.