AeroTech Open Thread

[grouch]

The giving up was in reference to a poster's complaints that his cases are worthless without closures. I was trying to get him to concede that ordering a case without closures being available is a condition of his own creation.

I have asked this before, at what point does a manufacturer decide this is all too much trouble and pull the plug? I mean seriously guys, you have to understand that apart from Loki, the other manufacturers' hobby involvement is a small fraction of their defense work. I am sure both CTI and AT can endure the small loss of revenue from the hobby community if it all became too much. Look at how few choices we have today as opposed to a little as 10 years ago. I simply don't see the need to keep poking at them. AT knows they need to pump some cases into the market. CTI knows they need to pump some reloads into the market. Loki knows he needs to make some 29mm motors for me. Jumping around and throwing a fit doesn't seem to get anyone anywhere closer to these goals.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Don't give up Grouch, it's just a matter of perspective.

This really isn't AT's problem. The problem lies with those looking for hardware. Most buyers want to get this specific part from their vendor, or all the parts from one source. NO vendor carries all of the parts. They order what sells on a regular basis. Most buyers don't even know how many vendors sell AT hardware, and when they go looking, they don't actually contact the vendor and ask. If it shows "out of stock" they move on. Of the six vendors we buy from, only two come close to keeping their webpage up to date.
My wife Sharon and I fly AT, CTI, LOKI and research motors. Some of you have seen some of the hardware Sharon owns, and she lets me use whatever she is not using, unless it's dirty, I get all of those.
A quick count of AT cases in our inventory is around 58, with most complete sets. Yes, a red DR. Rockets closure fits fine on a blue Rouse Tech motor, and you can use a gold AT rear closure with that.
We didn't get there by buying from Wildman, or Balsa Machining. Quite a few came from members on TRF. The last 54/1706 casing I found was in a bucket in a shed, when I asked about it, the owner just gave it to me.
You don't even have to know who has what, just ask here, someone will find it for you. If you remove all the complaints about not finding something, there are lots of posts on TRF where what one member was looking for was found by another member, but the buyer didn't want to buy it from that vendor because it cost a dollar more or shipping from vendor A was more than vendor B. Big news here! This hobby is not cheap. Just getting to high power can be expensive, and every level gets more so. Heaven forbid your spouse gets involved, then you have to have at least two of those cases that can't be found....

If I could get this done in fancy script I would frame it.

 

[BF Rockets]

Imma order me some extra 38mm hardware just to hoard it. lolz

 

[gldknght]

There might be a good reason why there isn't a line of people scampering to license the hardware. Think of the initial outlay costs. Aluminum tubing in 6 different sizes in minimum quantities to fill current orders will probably run $60-70,000.00. And that number might be low. Then you have to have aluminum round stock in six different sizes to make closures. Probably another $20-30,000.00. Then machinists costs, anodizing costs, and laser etching will add up a wee bit too. That's a lot more than I can bite off...

But by god, my first run of cases would be orange or purple or chartreuse or mauve with taupe closures...
Or tie dye orange/chartreuse, or ....

I'm one of those guys that would probably NOT pay extra for laser engraving, can't see it when it's inside the rocket anyway...but I would definitely buy one of those purple ones!

You are also certainly correct about the initial setup cost for turning out these cases.

 

[gldknght]

So are you holding onto these Dr Rocket cases for a reason? Do you think they are some how going to be worth more value? Because that’s hilarious!

Why do I have to explain my reasoning to you, or even have reason? They are my property and I will d**n well do what ever I please with them!

 

[grouch]

Imma order me some extra 38mm hardware just to hoard it. lolz

Or you could just buy the ones I have for sale and hoard those like I've been doing. It's not as fun as it sounds. They deserve to be in the wild!

 

[Banzai88]

So are you holding onto these Dr Rocket cases for a reason? Do you think they are some how going to be worth more value? Because that’s hilarious!

I'm guessing that you haven't seen the absolutely ridiculous prices that they actually sell for on ebay? Usually somewhere at 10-20% more than a new one, and certainly much more than the original cost. Can't really explain it, other than people wanting vintage stuff, or different stuff than everyone else....and they're willing to pay for it.

 

[Tobor]

@ jd2cylman,
If you do a run of 38s in Mauve with Chartreuse closures, then I'll take a 360, 720, 1080 and a 1320. Of course that is conditional on the production of a 38 RAS floating forward closure in Purple! Sorry but I'm picky like that....

 

[jd2cylman]

I'm one of those guys that would probably NOT pay extra for laser engraving, can't see it when it's inside the rocket anyway...but I would definitely buy one of those purple ones!

You are also certainly correct about the initial setup cost for turning out these cases.

Actually all the cases are laser etched now. AT did away with the sticky labels some time ago and joined the 21st century with Laser etched labels.
Only Dr rocket offered the personalized etching.

 

[BayouRat]

Why do I have to explain my reasoning to you, or even have reason? They are my property and I will d**n well do what ever I please with them!

Still don't know what your looking for or if it even exist? Aerotech has changed there closures a few times since Dr. Rocket has been around. Whatever your looking for probably doesn't exist any more.

 

[BayouRat]

I'm guessing that you haven't seen the absolutely ridiculous prices that they actually sell for on ebay? Usually somewhere at 10-20% more than a new one, and certainly much more than the original cost. Can't really explain it, other than people wanting vintage stuff, or different stuff than everyone else....and they're willing to pay for it.

I've not seen that. Do you have an example? The only ones I've seen go for more are the special one off anodizing. Other than that I don't get the hoarder mentality. I suspect it's supply and demand. I sold all my commercial stuff years ago.

 

[dhbarr]

Actually all the cases are laser etched now. AT did away with the sticky labels some time ago and joined the 21st century with Laser etched labels.
Only Dr rocket offered the personalized etching.

Apogee will custom laser etch for you.

 

[jd2cylman]

Apogee will custom laser etch for you.

I didn't know this. Luckily for me I have a friend who purchased a 80w laser. He likes experimenting on stuff for me.

 

[ROhmen]

There might be a good reason why there isn't a line of people scampering to license the hardware. Think of the initial outlay costs. Aluminum tubing in 6 different sizes in minimum quantities to fill current orders will probably run $60-70,000.00. And that number might be low. Then you have to have aluminum round stock in six different sizes to make closures. Probably another $20-30,000.00. Then machinists costs, anodizing costs, and laser etching will add up a wee bit too. That's a lot more than I can bite off...

But by god, my first run of cases would be orange or purple or chartreuse or mauve with taupe closures...
Or tie dye orange/chartreuse, or ....

TAKE MY MONEY!!!!!

 

[Dudeman247.]

The giving up was in reference to a poster's complaints that his cases are worthless without closures. I was trying to get him to concede that ordering a case without closures being available is a condition of his own creation.

I have asked this before, at what point does a manufacturer decide this is all too much trouble and pull the plug? I mean seriously guys, you have to understand that apart from Loki, the other manufacturers' hobby involvement is a small fraction of their defense work. I am sure both CTI and AT can endure the small loss of revenue from the hobby community if it all became too much. Look at how few choices we have today as opposed to a little as 10 years ago. I simply don't see the need to keep poking at them. AT knows they need to pump some cases into the market. CTI knows they need to pump some reloads into the market. Loki knows he needs to make some 29mm motors for me. Jumping around and throwing a fit doesn't seem to get anyone anywhere closer to these goals.[/QUOTE

Well said.

 

[CzTeacherMan]

On a completely different note...
Does Aerotech make "demo" motors? Like a transparent or cutaway plastic motor? Something I could use to teach/demo with?

 

[Steve Shannon]

On a completely different note...
Does Aerotech make "demo" motors? Like a transparent or cutaway plastic motor? Something I could use to teach/demo with?

I’ve mentioned this to Gary before, the possibility of obtaining inert propellant grains. They’d be easy enough to turn from wood or plastic I guess.

 

[dhbarr]

Someone on the forum has cast inert grains from table salt.

 

[beeblebrox]

There might be a good reason why there isn't a line of people scampering to license the hardware. Think of the initial outlay costs. Aluminum tubing in 6 different sizes in minimum quantities to fill current orders will probably run $60-70,000.00. And that number might be low. Then you have to have aluminum round stock in six different sizes to make closures. Probably another $20-30,000.00. Then machinists costs, anodizing costs, and laser etching will add up a wee bit too. That's a lot more than I can bite off...

But by god, my first run of cases would be orange or purple or chartreuse or mauve with taupe closures...
Or tie dye orange/chartreuse, or ....

No, you don't need to buy huge quantities, the tubing isn't the expensive part anyway it's the machining of the threads... You can buy small quantities of tubing from this supplier. They (Rough) cut to length too. So, if you want that Nike Fin Can made out of 6061...
https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/material?q=:relevance:Material:Aluminum:Alloy:6061:Shape:Round+Tube&checkbox=on#

 

[WILDMANRS]

No, you don't need to buy huge quantities, the tubing isn't the expensive part anyway it's the machining of the threads... You can buy small quantities of tubing from this supplier. They (Rough) cut to length too. So, if you want that Nike Fin Can made out of 6061...
https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/material?q=:relevance:Material:Aluminum:Alloy:6061:Shape:Round+Tube&checkbox=on#

Actually they don’t have the proper materials .

 

[Worsaer]

Someone on the forum has cast inert grains from table salt.

Info on Richard Nakka’s site:
https://www.nakka-rocketry.net/inert.html

 

[beeblebrox]

Actually they don’t have the proper materials .

Not true, at least for some things, I have tubing from there that is the exact stuff used for 38mm reload casings. Measured it and compared to an Aerotech case. (I was given those tubes for free and will most likely use them for something else...) Onesy twosy machining is too expensive... would be worth it if there were larger quantity. .

 

[WILDMANRS]

Not true, at least for some things, I have tubing from there that is the exact stuff used for 38mm reload casings. Measured it and compared to an Aerotech case. (I was given those tubes for free and will most likely use them for something else...) Onesy twosy machining is too expensive... would be worth it if there were larger quantity. .

It might measure the same, but its not the same material.

 

[tfish]

Someone on the forum has cast inert grains from table salt.

salt...

Tony

 

[ttabbal]

If I could get this done in fancy script I would frame it.

You're making me want to run a plaque on the CNC and send it to you...

 

[tOD]

I'm planning a flight on a K535 disposable with a maximum delay of 14 seconds. A rough simulation puts my optimum delay at around 16 seconds. In this case is the best thing to do not use any ejection charge at all in the motor and just rely on the apogee charge from the altimeter? A backup would be nice but in this case looks like it might do more harm than good.

 

[Steve Shannon]

You're making me want to run a plaque on the CNC and send it to you...

I’m over it. [emoji4]

 

[rharshberger]

A friend just picked up my new hardware from SBR/Fusion Rockets....a 75/7680 with RAS and Rear closure.

 

[BSNW]

I'm planning a flight on a K535 disposable with a maximum delay of 14 seconds. A rough simulation puts my optimum delay at around 16 seconds. In this case is the best thing to do not use any ejection charge at all in the motor and just rely on the apogee charge from the altimeter? A backup would be nice but in this case looks like it might do more harm than good.

You are good. More people than we can count, run on one altimeter. They are WAY more reliable than motor ejection. Just take your time on your prep and double check your work. Enjoy that K535! Have fun!
Andrew

 

[spence]

HI Charlie-

I recently flew an M1350W DMS - Followed the directions religiously...The Motor spit out the forward closure when it came up to pressure (still on the rail), Needless to say the rest if the "event" was not pretty, My L3 was pretty much toast - literally. I have a second motor on order and am now a bit gun shy to use it in the coming rebuild. Is there a known cause for this? I used the enclosed epoxy, etc ---to the directions. It seemed very secure right up to the point that it was...not.

ideas?

Steve