Level 1 cert kit recommendations

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eggtimer rocketry
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samb said:
I think an Aerotech kit with F and G, 29mm single use or reloads with the 29/40-120 case are a good next step up.
Click to expand...

^ Finally, a sensible recommendation. There is a whole class called Mid Power Rocketry (MPR) that nicely introduces you to the next level of performance and construction techniques. The first time you fire a 29mm White Lightening composite motor in the schoolyard (after launching nothing but BP motors) you will be blown away.

These posts crack me up. The newbie has an Estes rocket, and you guys are already recommending fiberglass, 54mm motor mounts, and L2 certification.
 
Buckeye said:
^ Finally, a sensible recommendation. There is a whole class called Mid Power Rocketry (MPR) that nicely introduces you to the next level of performance and construction techniques. The first time you fire a 29mm White Lightening composite motor in the schoolyard (after launching nothing but BP motors) you will be blown away.

These posts crack me up. The newbie has an Estes rocket, and you guys are already recommending fiberglass, 54mm motor mounts, and L2 certification.
Click to expand...

Completely agree, MP is a GREAT stepping stone to L1, even if you only step there for a moment......it's the KNOWLEDGE that's importand. Plenty of annecdotal stories about the increase in the rate of "Same rocket for L1 and L2, then build your second rocket and go for L3" type of folks, and that's the thinking that gets us to the point where we have someone who's only ever built 2 rockets and done 2 flights thinking they've got enough figured out to go L3CC/TAP shopping.
 
Had a guy out to the range some time ago looking to Level 1 with a scratch-built rocket. First mistake: hooked up the wrong leads to the igniter. Second mistake: had no idea you need to drill the delay. Had it set to the default 14 seconds when he needed 7. Got the first two things fixed. Third mistake: rocket skywrote, completely unstable.

Moral of the story: only difference between your cert flight and other successful flights should be a slightly bigger motor.
 
Banzai88 said:
Completely agree, MP is a GREAT stepping stone to L1, even if you only step there for a moment......it's the KNOWLEDGE that's importand. Plenty of annecdotal stories about the increase in the rate of "Same rocket for L1 and L2, then build your second rocket and go for L3" type of folks, and that's the thinking that gets us to the point where we have someone who's only ever built 2 rockets and done 2 flights thinking they've got enough figured out to go L3CC/TAP shopping.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I recommend a 29mm motor mount for an L1. You learn an awful lot on your L1 rocket that will improve later rockets. 29mm is a really nice transition size that covers most of MPR and a bit of HPR.
 
Buckeye said:
^ Finally, a sensible recommendation....

...These posts crack me up. The newbie has an Estes rocket, and you guys are already recommending fiberglass, 54mm motor mounts, and L2 certification.
Click to expand...

I'll just note that the OP asked for a recommendation on a L1 cert kit - he may already be planning to fly mid power rockets as well, we don't know. I answered the question that he asked in the hopes that answering a straightforward question with a straightforward answer might solicit more questions.
 
Mid power is a good next step, but honestly, a solidly capable L1 rocket right out of the gate isn't all that crazy.

https://locprecision.com The Vulcanite needs a bit of modification for DD, but is a great L1. So are any of the 3" or 4" kits. Easy to build and fun to fly. Not as durable as FG

https://macperformancerocketry.com/collections/54mm-diameter-kits-1 MAC kits are really really well made, and a pleasure to fly. I've got a DD 54mm Zodiac and it'd make a great L1

https://wildmanrocketry.com Wildman's Jr kits are another great option. if you're willing to or able to work with Fiberglass, it's not rocket science.

https://www.madcowrocketry.com/kits/ Madcow has an insane number of kits that would make a perfect L1. Me? I'd do a 2.6" screech (OK I've built two ;) ) or a 2.6" Pike

I've built multiple rockets from each of these companies...and you really can't go wrong. if It looks fun, and fits your waiver....go for it.

My L1? I cloned an Estes Optima out of bluetube and plywood on a CTI H133BS for a nice easy 1200' pop and drop.

8686817609_ea5eba8a7b_c.jpg
 
Once again thanks everyone for all the advice and recommendations. The reason they didn't lead to more questions is due to meeting local club members and using them as mentors. I plan on attending my second launch date on 4-13-19 and asking lots of questions about rockets that peak my interest .
 
Lukun7 said:
Are there any good rockets that have DD that I can use for L1 + l2 and not lose on l2, but also not crash on L1?
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Most any kit 3" or above with a 38mm motor mount will fit that bill. A 2.6" is also possible but a little harder to fit all of the electronics in the AV bay. Either way, cardboard or fiberglass will work with appropriate motor selections.
 
Lukun7 said:
Are there any large 38mm rockets I can launch and build easily and that have no electronics and I can launch to a low altitude on an H?
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Kits generally don't come with electronics and most are designed to be deployed via motor ejection. Just avoid any kit labeled "dual deployment."
 
I'm using the Madcow SuperDX3 for my L1 cert. Roughly 1600 feet on an AT H123W (low and slow). I'm building it so I can add the av bay and do dual deploy later, then potentially L2 if I'm comfortable it can handle the impulse of an I. It's pretty easy to build, versatile (can fly G through J) and there are several very good build threads on the HPR forum you can use as guidelines. Do join a local club as the locals can help with a lot of your questions along the way...
 
some thoughts some kits have ads stating that they are easy to convert to dual deploy, well yes and no. example Madcow's 4" patriot (wood and paper) to convert from motor deploy to dual deploy I would likely need to swap out the nose cone and payload bay for an 18" parachute bay and AV bay with however much added weight to balance.
for me I find that I need about 10" of free tube to pack the main chute into(the nose and AV bay will use about 8" of tube. the stock nose will usually have about a pound of weight added, the AV bay weighs in at about a pound offset a bit by the bigger motors(a J570 weighs in at 910g) I would hazard a guess that one wouldn't need a full pound of nose weight for that(on top of the AV bay weight). so a 'clean slate' nose cone would be a good idea.
Rex
 
I used a 2.6” Madcow DX3 with 29mm. My L2 was a LOC Goblin. It has the ability to fly on 29mm, 38mm and 54mm. That is a great flier for L1 and L2. That’s what I would do if you want one flier your first two level certs.
 
Lukun7 said:
Are there any large 38mm rockets I can launch and build easily and that have no electronics and I can launch to a low altitude on an H?
Click to expand...

I used a 4" Cardboard/Wood MadCow DX3 with 38mm motor mount, but built it with an added avionics bay (DX3 kit + 4" MadCow avionics bay). It flew empty for my L1 (H123W, motor ejection), then I added altimeters and flew it dual-deploy for my L2 (J420).
Easy build, very forgiving design.
 
I am just getting back in to rocketry after being out over 40 years. As a kid and teenager (I'm 58), I launched many an Estes and Centuri rocket. Now that I am retired, I'm ready to enjoy it again. I have purchased a couple LPR rockets to practice and regain my building/flying skills and ordered a Loc IV to start on, once I get my hobby legs under me again. After ordering the Loc IV, I came across this thread and heard about the Fusion. That one really has gotten under my skin and am considering ordering it. My question is this: Once I am ready to start building a rocket for a Level 1 cert, should I use the Loc IV or the Fusion? BTW, I have to say that the rockets haven't changed much in 40 years but the engines and recovery systems, WOW!
 
Raindog said:
I am just getting back in to rocketry after being out over 40 years. As a kid and teenager (I'm 58), I launched many an Estes and Centuri rocket. Now that I am retired, I'm ready to enjoy it again. I have purchased a couple LPR rockets to practice and regain my building/flying skills and ordered a Loc IV to start on, once I get my hobby legs under me again. After ordering the Loc IV, I came across this thread and heard about the Fusion. That one really has gotten under my skin and am considering ordering it. My question is this: Once I am ready to start building a rocket for a Level 1 cert, should I use the Loc IV or the Fusion? BTW, I have to say that the rockets haven't changed much in 40 years but the engines and recovery systems, WOW!
Click to expand...

Welcome back to the hobby. It's kind of up to you for your L1 rocket both are great kits.
 
Raindog said:
I am just getting back in to rocketry after being out over 40 years. As a kid and teenager (I'm 58), I launched many an Estes and Centuri rocket. Now that I am retired, I'm ready to enjoy it again. I have purchased a couple LPR rockets to practice and regain my building/flying skills and ordered a Loc IV to start on, once I get my hobby legs under me again. After ordering the Loc IV, I came across this thread and heard about the Fusion. That one really has gotten under my skin and am considering ordering it. My question is this: Once I am ready to start building a rocket for a Level 1 cert, should I use the Loc IV or the Fusion? BTW, I have to say that the rockets haven't changed much in 40 years but the engines and recovery systems, WOW!
Click to expand...
Essentially, they're the same rocket. - the Fusion just allows the option to fly single or dual deployment. The choice is yours.. Fusion also includes all the extras you're likely to buy... like nomex heat shields, shock cord protectors, main and drogue parachutes, motor adapters, and a handy camera and altimeter mount. Fusion is also available with or without an altimeter, although it can always be flown using just motor ejection.
 
Rex R said:
some thoughts some kits have ads stating that they are easy to convert to dual deploy, well yes and no. example Madcow's 4" patriot (wood and paper) to convert from motor deploy to dual deploy I would likely need to swap out the nose cone and payload bay for an 18" parachute bay and AV bay with however much added weight to balance.
for me I find that I need about 10" of free tube to pack the main chute into(the nose and AV bay will use about 8" of tube. the stock nose will usually have about a pound of weight added, the AV bay weighs in at about a pound offset a bit by the bigger motors(a J570 weighs in at 910g) I would hazard a guess that one wouldn't need a full pound of nose weight for that(on top of the AV bay weight). so a 'clean slate' nose cone would be a good idea.
Rex
Click to expand...
 
Good thoughts. My review of various threads has led me to the conclusion that to do SD/DD with the same air-frame requires two relatively simple updates to the core design (at least for the Madcow Super DX3). First, afix the SD coupler to the two air frame tubes with removable rivets. When going DD, you instead attach the AV bay with shear pins or rivets where needed, depending on how you intend to do deployment and where you intend to pack the parachutes. For weight management, you cut off the bottom of the nosecone and build a two piece bulkhead, the larger epoxied to the nose cone. The smaller holds a forged eye-bolt and is attached to the larger via removable screws. Washers can be added to add weight as need for each different motor configuration. I'm also looking into whether the center opening will be large enough to also include a small sled for holding a tracker (not necessary if DD is done well, but could be useful for higher power SD that go over 3000'). Given the vastly different weight of motors, especially in L2 rockets, a single, alterable nosecone makes a lot more sense. I also have a King Kracken in inventory and intent to use the same scheme and same AV bay to make it SD/DD capable as well. Proper design lets you re-use components across same-size air-frames, which is a plus. Of course, you could just use Jolly Logic chute release and avoid DD entirely, but where is the fun in that?
 
Mike Haberer said:
I also have a King Kracken in inventory and intent to use the same scheme and same AV bay to make it SD/DD capable as well.
Click to expand...

I recently built a King Kraken for DD, but launched it SD for my cert flight. Another option (in addition to the SD -> DD conversion you described), is to build the complete AV bay, and simply put the main on the motor side. You'll probably want to rivet or screw the nose cone side together so it doesn't pop apart at ejection.
 
Nytrunner said:
Just because DD is done well doesn't mean high altitude winds won't take it over a hill/treeline :cool:
Click to expand...
True, but if you size your intial (drogue) deploy correctly, it should come down fast enough that it won't drift too far. Hey, HPR is supposed to be flown on a big field! ;-)
 
mbeels said:
I recently built a King Kraken for DD, but launched it SD for my cert flight. Another option (in addition to the SD -> DD conversion you described), is to build the complete AV bay, and simply put the main on the motor side. You'll probably want to rivet or screw the nose cone side together so it doesn't pop apart at ejection.
Click to expand...
Yeah, thought of that, too. For the KK, my (slight) concern would be the nosecone hanging nose down (can't add a lanyard if there is no chute attached to the nosecone) and hitting the ground hard enough to damage or break the squidly canards.
 
Mike Haberer said:
True, but if you size your intial (drogue) deploy correctly, it should come down fast enough that it won't drift too far. Hey, HPR is supposed to be flown on a big field! ;-)
Click to expand...
Let's look at some numbers.

6 lb. descent weight, apogee at 7000', which is the top of the waiver, minimum field dimension is 3500', and wind is blowing in that direction; 12" drogue yields 90 fps descent rate.

If you reach apogee directly over the launch pad, and the winds aloft are at 20 mph, it takes 77 seconds to descend. 77 X 90 = 6930 feet of potential drift.

Your drogue descent has put you 3430' beyond the edge of your waiver area. Just sayin'.
 

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