That Time the US Military Made an Atomic Cannon

[Winston]

About as dumb as the German rail artillery in WWII. If there was sufficient air superiority to protect it from easy air attack, being a maximum of a mere 20 miles from its target, why not drop a similar bomb from an aircraft?

An important contribution it made besides the development of artillery shell nuke tech which was later miniaturized making them much more practical:

Upshot-Knothole Grable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upshot-Knothole_Grable

An anomalous feature of the blast was the formation of a precursor, a second shock front ahead of the incident wave. This precursor was formed when the shock wave reflected off the ground and surpassed the incident wave and Mach stem due to a heated ground air layer and the low burst height. It resulted in a lower overpressure, but higher overall dynamic pressure, which inflicted much more damage on drag sensitive targets such as jeeps and personnel carriers. This led strategists to rethink the importance of low air bursts in tactical nuclear warfare.

 

[shanejohnson2002]

Two words: Fulda Gap.

Three words: Because we can.

This was produced at a time when we were proving just how far we could go with nuclear tech. The intent was to be a one-shot deterrent for areas like the Fulda Gap in Germany, which was an obvious point of entry for any Warsaw Pact invasion.

Think about the logistics of even short-range nukes vs this thing. Yes, you need to devote some resources to protecting it, but it's as simple to launch as pulling a string. It's also an artillery weapon....a tried and true delivery system when nuclear rockets were still in their relative infancy. The final advantage is you can put it in places short range missiles, ICBMs etc cant go. Good luck convincing the Germans to let us build an ICBM bunker within range of the FG. This, on the other hand, can be parked on a convenient hilltop.

 

[DaveW6DPS]

I have actually seen an example at the artillery museum at Fort Sill, where my son went for basic and AIT.

It was actually quickly deployed and definitely provided battlefield superiority. Other than maybe killing as many friendlies and enemies...

 

[shanejohnson2002]

I have actually seen an example at the artillery museum at Fort Sill, where my son went for basic and AIT.

It was actually quickly deployed and definitely provided battlefield superiority. Other than maybe killing as many friendlies and enemies...

I'll be at Sill this summer as a DS...and that museum is definitely cool. I went there last year and made a stop at the museum, and Geronimo's prison / grave.

 

[Winston]

Two words: Fulda Gap.

21 words: blown away by Soviet aircraft in "secret" storage location, during road transit, or during their "15 minute setup" (yeah, I'm sure).

Three words: Because we can.

Because the Army wanted to get their nose more into the nuke game, too. The also stupid, but very cool little Davy Crockett nuclear hand grenade-ish weapon was another example.

This was produced at a time when we were proving just how far we could go with nuclear tech.

I said that in my original post: ..."important contribution it made besides the development of artillery shell nuke tech which was later miniaturized making them much more practical"

Yes, you need to devote some resources to protecting it

And if those most likely airborne assets were successful in doing so a mere 20 miles from the intended target, why not just drop a similar bomb from those airborne assets on that target?

Finally, the best measure of "stupid military systems" is how long they're fielded. From Wikipedia:

"Due to the size of the apparatus, their limited range, the development of nuclear shells compatible with existing artillery pieces (the W48 for the 155 mm and the W33 for the 203 mm), and the development of rocket- and missile-based nuclear artillery (such as the Little John and Honest John tactical nuclear missiles), the M65 was effectively obsolete soon after it was deployed. However, it remained a prestige weapon and was not retired until 1963."

Also:

https://olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_atomic.php

The Army deployed the 280mm atomic cannons to Europe in the early 1950s. Some sources say there was also deployment to other areas, but
details were classified. The units were difficult to maneuver because of their length and heavy weight, and could only be driven on paved roadways or packed ground. The atomic cannon weapon system appeared in the Inagural Parade for Gen. Dwight Eisenhower when he became President of the United States, 20 January 1953. The gun had difficulty maneuvering the parade route in downtown Washington, DC.

According to information from Kirtland Air Force Base, NM, Jim Michalko served as a crew member of one of the cannons in Germany in 1955. He said, "They couldn't turn well and the streets of Germany were narrow so we had a hard time moving it around." He remembers that several buildings were destroyed at one point when the cannon had no where else to go.

 

[shanejohnson2002]

21 words: blown away by Soviet aircraft in "secret" storage location, during road transit, or during their "15 minute setup" (yeah, I'm sure).

Because the Army wanted to get their nose more into the nuke game, too. The also stupid, but very cool little Davy Crockett nuclear hand grenade-ish weapon was another example.

I said that in my original post: ..."important contribution it made besides the development of artillery shell nuke tech which was later miniaturized making them much more practical"

And if those most likely airborne assets were successful in doing so a mere 20 miles from the intended target, why not just drop a similar bomb from those airborne assets on that target?

Finally, the best measure of "stupid military systems" is how long they're fielded. From Wikipedia:

"Due to the size of the apparatus, their limited range, the development of nuclear shells compatible with existing artillery pieces (the W48 for the 155 mm and the W33 for the 203 mm), and the development of rocket- and missile-based nuclear artillery (such as the Little John and Honest John tactical nuclear missiles), the M65 was effectively obsolete soon after it was deployed. However, it remained a prestige weapon and was not retired until 1963."

Also:

https://olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_atomic.php

The Army deployed the 280mm atomic cannons to Europe in the early 1950s. Some sources say there was also deployment to other areas, but
details were classified. The units were difficult to maneuver because of their length and heavy weight, and could only be driven on paved roadways or packed ground. The atomic cannon weapon system appeared in the Inagural Parade for Gen. Dwight Eisenhower when he became President of the United States, 20 January 1953. The gun had difficulty maneuvering the parade route in downtown Washington, DC.

According to information from Kirtland Air Force Base, NM, Jim Michalko served as a crew member of one of the cannons in Germany in 1955. He said, "They couldn't turn well and the streets of Germany were narrow so we had a hard time moving it around." He remembers that several buildings were destroyed at one point when the cannon had no where else to go.

I never said it was actually deployed in any real capacity (it *was* deployed though)...only the thought process (however flawed) behind it. This is 1950s-era strategy, which absolutely sounds utterly ridiculous to modern ears. However, when all branches of the military are trying to beat The Red Menace in just about every category...sure, why not have a nuclear arty?

It was also *not* intended to be air dropped, or guarded by airborne units. It was intended to be towed to the FFP (hence the prime movers towing them in the parade), fired once into the FG (or any similar pinch point), and then pretty much abandoned.

I can definitely see where it would cause damage while being towed. Not sure which major thought it was a brilliant idea to drag it through the streets, but he probably got a medal. Because that's just how the Army works.

Source: I've actually, physically, touched the thing. I can provide pictures of it in person later this year, if it'll help the thread.

 

[shanejohnson2002]

Edit: Wrong decade. I was thinking 1945 vice 1955. My bad.

 

[rharshberger]

There is also an Atomic Cannon on display on the ridge above Fort Riley, KS, seen it many times on the boring as hell drive across Kansas.

 

[rocketguy101]

I have actually seen an example at the artillery museum at Fort Sill, where my son went for basic and AIT.

It was actually quickly deployed and definitely provided battlefield superiority. Other than maybe killing as many friendlies and enemies...

Here's pics from Ft. Sill museum...pretty impressive beast!

 

[Winston]

There is also an Atomic Cannon on display on the ridge above Fort Riley, KS, seen it many times on the boring as hell drive across Kansas.

Yep, walked up the hill to closely examine it myself.

EDIT: A photo I took of it.

 

[Winston]

There is a quote by an unnamed as far as I can find American military analyst: “In Germany, the towns are only two kilotons apart.” Nuclear defense of West Germany using standard nukes would have destroyed West Germany. That's why the neutron bombs were deployed there and that's what I believe the unnamed military analyst was referring to.

 

[Johnly]

Well they did later develop the W48 for the 155mm cannons with a yield of just .07kt. Later on even looked at an 155mm ER variant of the 2kt W82.

 

[Winston]

M65 - The Atomic Cannon



The one and only test:



W9 (nuclear warhead)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W9_(nuclear_warhead)

 

[teepot]

Tested just over the mountains to the east of here.

 

[cwbullet]

Just sounds like a bad idea

 

[Sooner Boomer]

I can understand the focus of attention on the Fulda Gap. That's one reason the Neutron Bomb was developed.

I worked with a guy that had been a forward radar site tech. Everything could be carried in via helo, set up, and made operational in less than 15 minutes. He said he thought that if it were real war, they would live another 15 minutes after they turned it on and started transmitting.

 

[BABAR]

They tried an atomic hand grenade, but to survive you had to have a reeeeeaaaallly good arm.

 

[Reinhard]

They tried an atomic hand grenade, but to survive you had to have a reeeeeaaaallly good arm.

Did it include instructions to count to three, no more, no less?

Reinhard

 

[Tobor]

Well...

I don't think the concept of an Atomic Cannon is such a bad idea. At least in modern warfare. With the Russian's new Koalitsiya-SV SPG (43 mile effective range), it shows that an atomic cannon could be practical. Think of a GPS guided smart warhead, fired from an upgraded howitzer with rocket assist (Maybe even AeroTech propelled) would make for one hell of a tactical deterrent.

 

[Winston]

Well...

I don't think the concept of an Atomic Cannon is such a bad idea. At least in modern warfare. With the Russian's new Koalitsiya-SV SPG (43 mile effective range), it shows that an atomic cannon could be practical. Think of a GPS guided smart warhead, fired from an upgraded howitzer with rocket assist (Maybe even AeroTech propelled) would make for one hell of a tactical deterrent.

It was stupid then in so many ways as detailed in this specific post from this thread:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...ry-made-an-atomic-cannon.151731/#post-1871784
But, after all, it was all about the Army wanting to get involved in nukes like the USAF and Navy.

The claimed 1000 mile cannon supposedly under development would be a much more practical application of nuclear artillery rounds:

Army developing 'high-rate-of-fire' breakthrough 1,000-mile range cannon
The long-range cannon could be a possibility by 2023

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/army-builds-never-before-seen-breakthrough-1000-mile-range-cannon

 

[boomtube-mk2]

Otherwise known as the "One second slum clearance plan".

If you want some real crazy with your nuclear devices, read up on the various concepts enshrined within "Project Plowshare" one of which was "Gas Buggy" which used nuclear charges as fracking devices.
To the best of my knowledge it was the only "Plowshare" concept that was actually implemented.

Then there was the USAF's AIR-2 Genie an unguided air-to-air nuclear missile carrying a 1.5 kiloton warhead, a single example of the AIM-2 was fired, and detonated, over Nevada's nuclear test range. How would you have liked to have been the pilot of the aircraft that launched that one?

The "Logic" behind the Genie was to have a single missiles that could destroy Soviet heavy bomber formations though many in the various UFO groups believe it was designed as a means to shoot down "Flying Saucers" as nothing up to then had proven effective.

 

[Tobor]

It was stupid then in so many ways as detailed in this specific post from this thread:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...ry-made-an-atomic-cannon.151731/#post-1871784
But, after all, it was all about the Army wanting to get involved in nukes like the USAF and Navy.

The claimed 1000 mile cannon supposedly under development would be a much more practical application of nuclear artillery rounds:

Army developing 'high-rate-of-fire' breakthrough 1,000-mile range cannon
The long-range cannon could be a possibility by 2023

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/army-builds-never-before-seen-breakthrough-1000-mile-range-cannon

Yeah I understood the then part. I think the real motive for a atomic cannon during the cold war was the serious potential of a ground invasion of the Northern U.S. border. Considering the real threat posed by (then) China's Million Man Army, along with Russian aeriel and long range missile support, would have easily overwelmed our defenses to the North. Although horrific in concept, losing a battalion of howitzers lobbing atomic ordinance to stop the "Red Horde" in their tracks, would (imho) be deemed by military minds an acceptable loss. I believe a battalion of howitzer's would do a better job of targeting enemy ground forces then any U.S. ICBM or Air-to-Ground missile availible at the time.

 

[Funkworks]

Available in hobby stores.