What kits should Estes bring back?

[jlabrasca]

FWIW what are the dimensions of the clear tubing sold for protecting fluorescent bulbs? Might make a good payload section for an upscale.

Best -- Terry

BMS makes a nosecone sized for a T12 tube protector (I think. Its part number BMSFLMS). with a shoulder diameter of 1.65" -- which is pretty close to BT60. Its a 1.58:1 aspect ratio, though. The X-ray cone was NC20A -- with a 4:1 aspect.

Estes, eRockets and Apogee all sell clear airframe. I don't know if estes BT60 clear payload tube is long enough for a BT55/BT60 X-ray, but Apogee sells it in in 18" sections. I got the BT80 payload for my upscaled Scrambler from Apogee, I think. IIRC the clear BT55 and the BNC55A cone for the upscaled X-ray came from eRockets.

 

[DeWain]

I'd like to see some of the classic kits that are hard to clone and are not available through Semroc. A big vote for the 1/35th scale Mercury Atlas and the 1/100th scale Saturn 1B (Century). A couple of kits that I always wanted to have were the Century Skylab (no resemblance to the real Skylab) and the Estes Starlab.

 

[Ez2cDave]

I'd like to see some of the classic kits that are hard to clone and are not available through Semroc.

Bring back the Maxi-Brute's . . . V-2, Pershing-1A, and the Honest John . . . With 29mm motor mounts !

 

[DeWain]

Bring back the Maxi-Brute's . . . V-2, Pershing-1A, and the Honest John . . . With 29mm motor mounts !

Agreed. I love the Maxi Brutes, but they were seriously under-powered on 24mm black powder motors. They either need a 24mm composite or a 29mm motor mount. The V2 and the Honest John have been re-released in the past, but the Pershing 1A was never re-released (that I know of).

BTW, I must either have been really tired when I wrote the post last night, or I was the victim of auto-incorrect. The Saturn 1B and Skylab kits that I referred to were old Centuri kits, not Century. Kits with injection molded plastic or vacuum formed parts are way too difficult for most rocketeers to clone (unless you have lots of time on your hands to draw up a model for a 3D printer). Of course, it may not be cost effective for Estes to invest in the tooling to make the parts for the Centuri Skylab (there may not be that many classic rocketeers who want one out there, and its odd design may not appeal to today's kids), but the same parts could be re-purposed on other sci-fi designs (as Estes has done in the past).

 

[DRAGON64]

Agreed. I love the Maxi Brutes, but they were seriously under-powered on 24mm black powder motors. They either need a 24mm composite or a 29mm motor mount. The V2 and the Honest John have been re-released in the past, but the Pershing 1A was never re-released (that I know of).

BTW, I must either have been really tired when I wrote the post last night, or I was the victim of auto-incorrect. The Saturn 1B and Skylab kits that I referred to were old Centuri kits, not Century. Kits with injection molded plastic or vacuum formed parts are way too difficult for most rocketeers to clone (unless you have lots of time on your hands to draw up a model for a 3D printer). Of course, it may not be cost effective for Estes to invest in the tooling to make the parts for the Centuri Skylab (there may not be that many classic rocketeers who want one out there, and its odd design may not appeal to today's kids), but the same parts could be re-purposed on other sci-fi designs (as Estes has done in the past).

I wish the link to Rocketry Planet was still available where the owner, Darrell Mobley, built the Honest John with a 54mm motor mount. He flew it on the "soda can" 54mm from Aerotech. About half way down the page on this link there is video of Darrell's Honest John flying on an I170 and a J240...

https://www.nefar.net/gallery/2008-11/index.html

The I170 video wasn't very good, but that J240 was SWEET!

 

[GlenP]

https://plans.rocketshoppe.com/estes/est1902/est1902.htm

They already brought back the Explorer Aquarius, so why not the Space Station Aquarius too?

 

[Scott_650]

I don’t think that the Space Station Aquarius has any special parts - everything looks to be standard stuff: nose cone, plastic transition, body tubes, and centering rings - so it would make a great, somewhat simpler to build, follow up to the Explorer Aquarius.

Another sci-fi, pseudo scale kit that where the decals make it special.

 

[RFMan]

Agreed. I love the Maxi Brutes, but they were seriously under-powered on 24mm black powder motors. They either need a 24mm composite or a 29mm motor mount. The V2 and the Honest John have been re-released in the past, but the Pershing 1A was never re-released (that I know of).

BTW, I must either have been really tired when I wrote the post last night, or I was the victim of auto-incorrect. The Saturn 1B and Skylab kits that I referred to were old Centuri kits, not Century. Kits with injection molded plastic or vacuum formed parts are way too difficult for most rocketeers to clone (unless you have lots of time on your hands to draw up a model for a 3D printer). Of course, it may not be cost effective for Estes to invest in the tooling to make the parts for the Centuri Skylab (there may not be that many classic rocketeers who want one out there, and its odd design may not appeal to today's kids), but the same parts could be re-purposed on other sci-fi designs (as Estes has done in the past).

I had an Estes Honest John. I never flew it on D engines, only on FSI F-100...which were GREAT...until a cato (due to excessive heat in the dorm over a holiday) took it out Basically destroyed the entire lower portion of the rocket, and I never bothered to try to repair that pile of debris.

 

[cwbullet]

You can clearly see there is a market for the re-releases.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=153358508542

 

[neil_w]

You can clearly see there is a market for the re-releases.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=153358508542

I dunno, it's hard to draw conclusions from that. Estes looks to pretty large (for rocketry, anyway) quantities of each kit; the fact that some small number of motivated collectors are willing to pay stupid money for OOP kits doesn't really say if the market is Estes-large or not.

Anecdotally, I agree that it *seems* like there's demand.

 

[Scott_650]

I dunno, it's hard to draw conclusions from that. Estes looks to pretty large (for rocketry, anyway) quantities of each kit; the fact that some small number of motivated collectors are willing to pay stupid money for OOP kits doesn't really say if the market is Estes-large or not.

Anecdotally, I agree that it *seems* like there's demand.

A Maxi HoJo would make a great PSII kit on 29mm BP motors! This is another one that probably would come down to the nose cone - if Estes still has the molds or not would be the determining factor.

 

[cwbullet]

I dunno, it's hard to draw conclusions from that. Estes looks to pretty large (for rocketry, anyway) quantities of each kit; the fact that some small number of motivated collectors are willing to pay stupid money for OOP kits doesn't really say if the market is Estes-large or not.

Anecdotally, I agree that it *seems* like there's demand.

Yes, but the number is getting larger. Folks buy these things and build them. I think a Maxi Honest John, V2, and Pershing would sell very well. Heck, I would buy the X-wing too.

 

[RFMan]

Yes, but the number is getting larger. Folks buy these things and build them. I think a Maxi Honest John, V2, and Pershing would sell very well. Heck, I would buy the X-wing too.

Yes, so would I. I never got the Maxi X-wing, and I always regretted that.

 

[Bungie64]

The Maxi-Brutes were Maxi under powered. I love them but need bigger motors. I'd say the Interceptor E since the original Interceptor has been rereleased. Maybe bring back a boost glider like the Astro-Blaster. With the advent of drones I think this could do well if the kit could handle a big enough motor and/or have a camera on it.

 

[JonathanOtt]

If Estes is still having a problem with their plywood supplier, I'd like to recommend if they won't re-release the Mega der Red Max, how about just making the nose cone available? I think its popular enough to at least do a parts run, if they can't (won't) re release the full kit. I know for fact that the MDRM nose cone fits the LOC 4" tube perfectly.

 

[BDB]

If Estes is still having a problem with their plywood supplier, I'd like to recommend if they won't re-release the Mega der Red Max, how about just making the nose cone available? I think its popular enough to at least do a parts run, if they can't (won't) re release the full kit. I know for fact that the MDRM nose cone fits the LOC 4" tube perfectly.

Do you know about the clone from AMW?
https://cart.amwprox.com/index.php?..._id=1175&virtuemart_category_id=60&Itemid=482

 

[JonathanOtt]

Do you know about the clone from AMW?
https://cart.amwprox.com/index.php?..._id=1175&virtuemart_category_id=60&Itemid=482

Yeah, the only "problem" (and it's not really a "problem") with it is the NC...its not an MDRM profile, it's a standard PNC-3.90" (98MM)...3.9" 3:1 blunted tip cone. The clone has a longer body tube and you paint the top 3" or so of it black to give the illusion of the MDRM nose...this is the cardboard and plywood kit...the FiberMax has the correct profile, with an FG nose, FG body and CF fins...and a higher cost...and (to me) loses that classic look.

 

[shreadvector]

Estes should bring back the Astron Scrambler, but with a plastic nose cone and adapter, using a 24mm mount, instead of the original 3 x 18mm cluster.

Dave F.

View attachment 372006

Or a 29mm mount. E16 is like 3 C6 motors (OK, slightly less peak thrust, but similar sustaining thrust for a couple of tenths of a second longer) and F15 is an even longer burning version.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Since ESTES own all of the CENTURI rights, let's bring back the ENERJET models . . . 29 mm mounts !

I like this photo of Carl . . .

Dave F.

 

[Ez2cDave]

The X-ray cone was NC20A -- with a 4:1 aspect.

The X-Ray was a BT-20 lower section, with a BT-50 Nose Cone ( BNC-50K - 3:1 - Same as the Alpha ), TA-2050A Adapter.

Dave F.

 

[Initiator001]

Since ESTES own all of the CENTURI rights, let's bring back the ENERJET models . . . 29 mm mounts !

I like this photo of Carl . . .

Dave F.


View attachment 373932



View attachment 373933

I took that picture of Carl at NARAM-52 in Colorado.

(Accreditation for the picture would be appreciated. I know I posted it on YORF and probably TRF).

That is an upscale Aero-Dart model (2.6" diameter) with an 29mm motor mount that I built from custom parts made by Carl.

The model flew great on an AeroTech single-use F20-4W motor.

 

[jlabrasca]

The X-Ray was a BT-20 lower section, with a BT-50 Nose Cone ( BNC-50K - 3:1 - Same as the Alpha ), TA-2050A Adapter.

Yes. Trying to find the N/C model number I only read down to the first instance of "X-ray" here

https://www.rocketshoppe.com/info/Estes_Nose_Cone_Reference_10.1.pdf

Which seemed authoritative enough that I was willing to ignore the fact that it was a plastic nosecone of the wrong diameter before bloviating about aspect ratios. By the time I realized my error, the edit window had expired. Thanks for making the correction.

Considering that I've cloned it (twice) and upscaled it, it is an astonishingly lazy mistake to have made. In my defense, I am astonishingly lazy.

 

[kuririn]

Should've said that you were talking about THIS X-Ray:


Yeah, that's it, yeah.

 

[prfesser]

I'm curious...since the instructions for a lot of these are on Jimz's site, and most parts are readily available (BMS, eRockets, elsewhere) or not too difficult to make...what's the lure of a kit? I like some of the kits, but like most of you I have a fair stock of airframe tubing, balsa, plywood, etc.

Best -- Terry

 

[kuririn]

I'm curious...since the instructions for a lot of these are on Jimz's site, and most parts are readily available (BMS, eRockets, elsewhere) or not too difficult to make...what's the lure of a kit? I like some of the kits, but like most of you I have a fair stock of airframe tubing, balsa, plywood, etc.

Best -- Terry

If the kit is OOP, but the plans are available and the parts are all standard, then I'll do a clone (if I like the design). The problem is when some parts are not easily bought or reproduced. Maxi Brutes, for example. The V2 tail cone is problematic. I've cloned one by cutting off the tip of a 4" nose cone. And the Maxi Hojo nose cone is currently unavailable. I cloned one when Madcow had the 2.6" Hojo fiberglass nose cone, but it is currently OOP. As for the Maxi Pershing, that nose cone, until recently, could not be obtained. Thanks to Leo that looks like it will soon change with his 3D printer files. I've been wanting to clone an ALCM cruise missile for the longest time, but the inlet must be custom made. If a specialty nose cone is not available, it must be custom made, either in 3D or hand turned in balsa. That can be expensive. And not everyone has access to or can afford to buy a 3D printer. Not to mention the learning curve. Cheers.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, some people just like to build kits. Laters.

 

[Bruiser]

EDIT: Forgot to mention, some people just like to build kits. Laters.

Some people like to build but don't want to build a kit before they can build the rocket. Some don't have the capability to build a kit. The other thing about kits is that I believe they normally come with decals. That's why I started my latest build with a Semroc kit but the joke was on me because the decals were minimal...

-Bob

 

[scottrc]

Estes 1385 Space Shuttle Columbia. I flew the snot out of mine and then lost it when a water pipe broke in my apartment and soaked it. Like a dummy, I didn't keep the nose cone and threw it out. And this looks like a hard part to try to clone.

 

[Scott_650]

I'm curious...since the instructions for a lot of these are on Jimz's site, and most parts are readily available (BMS, eRockets, elsewhere) or not too difficult to make...what's the lure of a kit? I like some of the kits, but like most of you I have a fair stock of airframe tubing, balsa, plywood, etc.

Best -- Terry

The kits that used unique parts - mostly nose cones - and the kits that used proprietary decals are tough to clone. Plus there are “completist” collectors who want an official kit from the maker in the original packaging.

But as for rockets using off the shelf parts? Clone ‘em if ya want ‘em!

 

[jlabrasca]

Should've said that you were talking about THIS X-Ray:
View attachment 373939

Yeah, that's it, yeah.

Yes. I think that's the one. That's the first X-ray on the Nosecone Cross-refrence list.

It was careless error.


Seriously - I've cloned The K-18 Xray twice and built a BT50 to BT55 upscale.

#153

I had a brain-lapse while searching for the nose-cone, to compare its profile to that of the Fluorescent Tube Protector cone that BMS sells.

 

[kuririn]

I was trying to make a joke, but I guess you're too young to remember Jon Lovitz. i.e. you could've covered up the faux pas by claiming it was the other one you were referring to. Guess I'll never make it as a stand up comedian. Cheers.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...DFC18CD1D295BB3D872BDFC18CD1D295&&FORM=VRDGAR