Saturn V from Arkansas [Estes #2157]

[Crawf56]

And so it begins....

Bought this kit on ebay, at least a couple of years ago. This is NOT the newest version of the great Saturn V moon rocket. The kit is listed in the instructions as, "Apollo 11 Saturn V".

But, let's move onward. The instructions list year 2010, and the kit number is #2157. The model is listed as 43-1/4 inches tall, and 3.94 inches diameter. The only motor recommended is a D12-3.

I intend to build the model as a sport scale. I plan to pretty much follow the instructions, without using any aftermarket parts.

Here is the box:

 

[BBowmaster]

I have that one too. I want to get it built for the anniversary.

 

[Crawf56]

Here is what you get:

 

[afadeev]

Bought this kit on ebay, at least a couple of years ago. This is NOT the newest version of the great Saturn V moon rocket. The kit is listed in the instructions as, "Apollo 11 Saturn V".
But, let's move onward. The instructions list year 2010, and the kit number is #2157. The model is listed as 43-1/4 inches tall, and 3.94 inches diameter. The only motor recommended is a D12-3.

I have this kit, VERY similar to the latest #1969. Both are fun, slow, challenging builds.
Enjoy yours, but please do NOT try to fly it on D12's.
E12/E30, or above!

a

 

[JPalmer621]

I use the E15 and E30 composite motors. Makes for great flights

 

[JJSR]

I have the 2157 kit from 1999 the 30th anniversary version. I replaced the thin paper bt with a loc thicker one and replaced the cr's with rings cut from an old book cover. The wraps are a hair short but I'm confident I can make it work. (I hope)

 

[Crawf56]

Regarding the motor comments.

I have some D12-3 motors. After watching some YouTube videos, I think the D12-3 will probably work, but...…

I will probably do a first launch with an Aerotech E15W-4 single use motor. Recommended as a more powerful D.

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocke...?cPath=7_264&zenid=toaoc64hip3nopqpc5b20urkt1

 

[afadeev]

Regarding the motor comments.

I have some D12-3 motors. After watching some YouTube videos, I think the D12-3 will probably work, but...…

You are a braver man than me!

My OR sim shows #2157 Estes SatV launching on Estes D12 and clearing 6" rod at 29.6 ft/s (too slow to be stable) on the way to an inglorious apogee at 64.3 ft.
With me packing, chutes take 100-150 feet to open.
Sim results on as-is weights, without the final coat of paint.

Your built may be lighter, and might go faster, and a bit higher... or not. Do record the video of you decide to try!

I will probably do a first launch with an Aerotech E15W-4 single use motor. Recommended as a more powerful D.
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocke...?cPath=7_264&zenid=toaoc64hip3nopqpc5b20urkt1

Here is the same AT E15W for 25% less:
https://www.siriusrocketry.biz/ishop/aerotech-e15-pw-24mm-single-use-motor-1-pack-1926.html

Here is the 3-pack of AT E15W's for 40% less, per unit:
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocke...?cPath=7_264&zenid=toaoc64hip3nopqpc5b20urkt1

a

 

[Crawf56]

Here is the Aerotech E15W-4 3-pack at Sirius:
https://www.siriusrocketry.biz/ishop/aerotech-e15-4w-24mm-single-use-motor-3-pack-1725.html

Afadeev is correct. A better price at $29.74 for three motors.

 

[jmuck78]

View attachment 373548 I have the 2157 kit from 1999 the 30th anniversary version. I replaced the thin paper bt with a loc thicker one and replaced the cr's with rings cut from an old book cover. The wraps are a hair short but I'm confident I can make it work. (I hope)

Joe, is that a picture of the thicker LOC tube with the wrap around it? Your picture is timely - I was just considering whether I should replace the thin tube with a thicker, LOC tube I happened to have around.

 

[JJSR]

Yes it's really thick,
I cut the wraps before I decided on using it so it could of been better fitting. Only problem is the transition has a bit of a lip, but I think it's workable.

 

[JJSR]

Toying with ideas on making flutes to fill in the missing ones. These are fixit epoxy, I think if I let them dry, ca them onto the wrap then shape them it'll work.
Maybe round tooth picks will work also we'll see,,,,

 

[jmuck78]

View attachment 373857
Toying with ideas on making flutes to fill in the missing ones. These are fixit epoxy, I think if I let them dry, ca them onto the wrap then shape them it'll work.
Maybe round tooth picks will work also we'll see,,,,

Could you use fixit epoxy as a cast around the existing flutes? Apply the fixit epoxy around the existing flutes, then pull it off before it cures. Let it cure, then use the cured cast to help form new flutes on the unfluted section?

 

[jmuck78]

I apologize if I'm hijacking the thread here, but I am also building the exact same Saturn V kit. I converted the mount to a 5 engine cluster with a central 29 mm and four 24 mm outboards. I'm confident the thicker 4'' LOC tube can deal with the launch loads, but the cluster requires a considerable amount of nose weight for stability, on the order of 300 grams, which seems like it would be a lot for the upper section to either during launch or under chute. Did I over reach with the cluster, or have others used that much nose weight with success?

 

[Crawf56]

Meanwhile, back to the build thread....

Working on the center motor section. Note that the centering disks are made of thick cardboard. This is why I am a little concerned about too much motor.

 

[afadeev]

View attachment 373857
Toying with ideas on making flutes to fill in the missing ones. These are fixit epoxy, I think if I let them dry, ca them onto the wrap then shape them it'll work.
Maybe round tooth picks will work also we'll see,,,,

Fancy.
I would have been tempted to glue another half-round dowel tunnel to cover up the flat spot, and call it an "antenna array" or "auxiliary tunnel" if anyone asks. Would make others jealous that your model is more true to form than theirs

Plus, those dowels only increase longitudinal rigidity of the thin BT-101 tube...

a

 

[JJSR]

Crawf56, I to am sorry about high jacking your build thread. I thought we were discussing beefing up our kits for larger motors.
If I may ask, what do you mean in post 15? Thicker cr's would stand up to more motor? Wouldn't it?

 

[Crawf56]

Crawf56, I to am sorry about high jacking your build thread. I thought we were discussing beefing up our kits for larger motors.
If I may ask, what do you mean in post 15? Thicker cr's would stand up to more motor? Wouldn't it?

HIGH JACKING
No worries on the "high jacking"; it only becomes a 'hi-jacked' thread if I stop posting (which won't happen). However, you are showing some good stuff. It might be good to start your own thread.

CARDBOARD
I have seen several High powered rockets that use plywood centering rings. I have seen a few Medium power rockets that use plywood centers.

NOTE: I build mainly rocket gliders and RC airplanes. My experience with rockets is D engines, and lower. So....I kind of 'don't really know' what I am talking about here.

On the Estes Saturn V here, I was very surprised that the only rated motor is the D12-3. The model is so big, that I understand the need for a quick ejection charge. But I wondered why an E motor was NOT specified.

My guess is that Estes engineers were concerned about the stress an E motor would put on the frame (as designed). Consequently, I am also concerned about using an E motor, although I intend to use the Aerotech E15W-4.

 

[kuririn]

FWIW the #1969 release no longer recommends the D motor. E12-4 and E30-4 only. And I may be wrong but I don't think they strengthened the motor mount from the previous release. Sims on a D are spooky: around 50' apogee. I would go E12 minimum, and E15 or more even better.
Some people have suggested gusseting the centering rings for strength.

 

[JJSR]

My guess is Estes fashioned this model more as a display rocket, due to the amount of work one has to put onto it.
Flying it was more of a second thought(?) The D12 gives it a more realistic lift off, nice and slow off the rod. It's not the kind of rocket you'd want to fly toooo high, so you can see the whole flight.
Getting back to cr's I used an old book cover just to beef her up some, lessin deflection of them with slightly bigger motors.

Their's on right @ 6.7g mine 11.4g
A small amount of epoxy spread across them and should be good for larger E's.
I don't remember the difference in weight of the bt's, the loc tube is something like 3 Xs their's.

 

[Crawf56]

Using a wooden rod to put glue up in the tube.

 

[Crawf56]

Engine mount tube in place. There is also a "Reinforcing Tube" closer to the exit. I could NOT get the Reinforcing Tube to fit into the Main Body Tube. Ended up cutting and gluing the Reinforcing Tube in place, to get the fit.

 

[Crawf56]

And looking at the front end. Need to add fillet.

 

[Crawf56]

Using blue cardboard to mark Main Body Tube.

 

[Crawf56]

FWIW the #1969 release no longer recommends the D motor. E12-4 and E30-4 only. And I may be wrong but I don't think they strengthened the motor mount from the previous release. Sims on a D are spooky: around 50' apogee. I would go E12 minimum, and E15 or more even better.
Some people have suggested gusseting the centering rings for strength.

Good info. Thanks.

At this point, I do not plan to add more reinforcement than called for in the instructions.

 

[Luzwingnut]

BEAUTIFUL work so far, Crawf56! WOW!

Just had to double-check MY Saturn V ("1969). Just arrived in the mail last week.

Just a consideration and not sure about your feelings about this (and you've stated you're staying pretty well stock on this build); however, I have NOTICED that the MMT is 24mm. I will be doing an UPGRADE on mine to incorporate a 29mm MMT to allow for a better selection of engines. This ALSO allows me to insert a 24mm to 29mm MMT ADAPTER... so IF I should decide to try a D-12, I can do it too it.

Watching with GREAT expectation on your build on this historic rocket.

(A distant cousin of mine flew on Apollo 11... so of course, the Saturn V holds a special place in my heart).

 

[SecondRow]

A stock build flies great on E15/E20s and E30s.

If you haven't already seen it, Chris Michiellsen's build on his blog proved invaluable to me. Especially the section on sanding the fin fairings. Here's the link to the first blog post. https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2011/04/estes-saturn-v-build-part-1-parts.html

His whole build is over 70 parts, but worth it.

 

[Crawf56]

Thanks for looking in, Luzwingnut. Pretty cool stuff, I encourage you to do a build thread.

Doing a little research, I was surprised to find that both Saturn kits (#1969 and #2157) list a weight of 11 oz.

 

[Luzwingnut]

I'll second, SecondRow, on the link to Chris Michiellsen's build!! GOOD STUFF RIGHT THERE!

I'm fighting through my last year of my Master's Degree at the moment... an Estes Bull Pup build will take me a whole 3 months! LOL. (Read, write, go to class, repeat.... while longingly looking at a finless Bull Pup on the building board!!)

We'll see what I can do on that, Crawf56.Who KNOWS what model number I've got... tag says "1969"...box cover is different than yours, Crawf56, with the picture of a "new and improved" Lunar Lander on the upper right of the box.

Shooting 29mm motors WILL require 100 grams in the nose of this rocket, they say. Might have to get a different nose to use while going with a 24mm to 29mm adapter, and shooting 24mm motors.

CHOICES CHOICES!

 

[OC-Patrick]

...nice build so far...