Recovery Made Easy

[gwh]

It looks like Apogee is working on a GPS guided steerable parachute system!
https://www.apogeerockets.com/index.php?main_page=blog&bID=147

All I can say is its about time someone has tried to take this on at a commercial level, I'm pretty pumped on this!

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I want!

 

[Handeman]

I worked on something like that, just an RC controller instead of GPS. I hope he can work past the issues I had. That was deployment. The chute worked, the controller worked, but I couldn't get any type of reliable deployment. Most of the time I had tangles and line overs and the chute just never inflated.

 

[Bat-mite]

A guy at MDRA who is now deceased invented one. It was tested after his death and it worked. I don't know what ever happened to his design.

If they pull this off, it will revolutionize rocketry.

 

[mpitfield]

I have seen at least one post on TRF from someone working on this, but it was at least a few years ago. I know that Armadillo was working on this back in 2012 and had some success

Personally it is something that I hope becomes a COTS solution for the masses, if so I will be all over it!

 

[Nathan]

A guy at MDRA who is now deceased invented one. It was tested after his death and it worked. I don't know what ever happened to his design.

If they pull this off, it will revolutionize rocketry.

Yes we saw it successfully tested at MDRA a couple of years ago.

Military has been doing this for a long time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Precision_Airdrop_System

 

[BAMA_Recovery_Systems]

Don't worry, multiple companies are working on bringing this technology to the hobby market. The biggest hurdle is education on packing and deployment. Unlike traditional rounds, square gliding chutes deploy better with speed. Price is also another big hurdle. With materials alone being more that most hobby chutes, the final price will be a shocker.

 

[gwh]

Awesome to hear, I hope to see info on yours soon! I think difficult recovery is really holding the hobby back and is very dated in comparison to the drone industry.

Price is a funny thing for people in this hobby. Raw materials are pretty cheap but when you factor in forgone wages from the hours put into even a mid power rocket a nicely finished build is worth hundreds. Well worth the investment to guarantee recovery, especially if the system can be moved from one build to another easily.

 

[crossfire]

I hope someone will get a system to work. But for our hobby use I don't think it will be a big seller.

 

[BAMA_Recovery_Systems]

I hope someone will get a system to work. But for our hobby use I don't think it will be a big seller.

I agree. I feel that the bigger market is balloons and full blown experimental sounding rockets and cube sat boosters. Software that accounts wind and automatically sets up flight paths is expensive. High altitude flyers may be in the market for a system, but cost is probably the biggest hurdle.

 

[gwh]

Is a fully calculate flight path necessary? Could a more simple feedback control logic allow the recovery system to basically spiral around the target coordinates?
Even 25 to 50 meter accuracy would be enough for the average hobbyist.

 

[rharshberger]

Is a fully calculate flight path necessary? Could a more simple feedback control logic allow the recovery system to basically spiral around the target coordinates?
Even 25 to 50 meter accuracy would be enough for the average hobbyist.

200 yards or so would be plenty close enough IMO.

 

[Bat-mite]

200 yards or so would be plenty close enough IMO.

I'd take anything within a quarter mile.

 

[snrkl]

Screw that, I want a system that puts the rocket back in my car, preferably after recording the apogee, downloading the flight video, and wiped clean of BP residue... [emoji12]

 

[Bat-mite]

Screw that, I want a system that puts the rocket back in my car, preferably after recording the apogee, downloading the flight video, and wiped clean of BP residue... [emoji12]

So what will you do at launches ... sleep?

 

[Ravenex]

I have been working on this with an eye toward a commercial product for a few years, in fact it's what got me started with LiquidFyre Rocketry (see my profile pic, and ExPac build threads). When I first started high power rocketry my dad challenged me to build a steerable recovery so he wouldn't have to walk so far. I have had some limited success with a remote control version, I even managed to land my rocket about 40 feet from me under remote control. I've also had a few deployment issues mostly due to underestimating the load one of these style chutes can create upon snapping open. Mostly though, while I have developed what I believe to be very nice mechanics, I have no ability to design and program the electronics and have been looking for a partner to help with the development. My test rocket was badly damaged at Mini MWP in the spring and with my most recent set backs I have had no time to rebuild the rocket. I am quite certain Apogee will beat me to it.

Someday I plan to offer active stabilization and GPS guided recovery, but that day is probably years away.

 

[Bat-mite]

I have been working on this with an eye toward a commercial product for a few years, in fact it's what got me started with LiquidFyre Rocketry (see my profile pic, and ExPac build threads). When I first started high power rocketry my dad challenged me to build a steerable recovery so he wouldn't have to walk so far. I have had some limited success with a remote control version, I even managed to land my rocket about 40 feet from me under remote control. I've also had a few deployment issues mostly due to underestimating the load one of these style chutes can create upon snapping open. Mostly though, while I have developed what I believe to be very nice mechanics, I have no ability to design and program the electronics and have been looking for a partner to help with the development. My test rocket was badly damaged at Mini MWP in the spring and with my most recent set backs I have had no time to rebuild the rocket. I am quite certain Apogee will beat me to it.

Someday I plan to offer active stabilization and GPS guided recovery, but that day is probably years away.

I wish you success! How's your dad doing?

 

[burkefj]

Someone I talked to at NARAM 60 flew a gps guided steerable chute that worked quite well, apparently he is selling them, they ran about the same as a gps type telemetry type altimeter, around $250-300 if I remember correctly, you had buttons to do some left right steering overrides if the gps was not doing the right thing for you, apparently he said the deployment was not an issue in his current design. It was pretty small, I think fitting into a 54mm tube I think, he flew it in a 2.6" estes type V-2. I think you can also use it as a locating device if needed due to telemetry and gps usage.

 

[Bat-mite]

What would be most helpful would be something that you can transfer chute to chute, rocket to rocket. Use it on a 3-inch bird with a 48", then swap into an 8-incher with a 15' chute.

 

[burkefj]

the problem is you are trying to steer and make headway, which normally requires a specialized ram air type chute, it's not just a matter of snapping something onto a normal chute and thinking you can get steering.

 

[gwh]

The ideal solution would probably allow you to swap the electronics over from one rocket to the next, with each rocket having its own dedicated chute, lines and servos. Switch modes on the guidance system via blue tooth and smart phone... and voila.

 

[burkefj]

The ideal solution would probably allow you to swap the electronics over from one rocket to the next, with each rocket having its own dedicated chute, lines and servos. Switch modes on the guidance system via blue tooth and smart phone... and voila.

In the example I saw the servo was integrated into the steering module/receiver/transmitter, so you might not even need that to be dedicated to each model, just the chute.....

 

[Ravenex]

My system will be completely transferable between rockets, but would need different kites and maybe shock cords, depending on weight.

 

[Nathan Chang]

Don't know if this is the right thread, but does anyone have experience using slider rings? Does it improve opening stability by a significant amount? Does it reduce the chance of shearing of the parachute fabric? Thanks.

 

[BAMA_Recovery_Systems]

Don't know if this is the right thread, but does anyone have experience using slider rings? Does it improve opening stability by a significant amount? Does it reduce the chance of shearing of the parachute fabric? Thanks.

Reefing of any kind is used to lower opening forces and ensure an in- sequence deployment. Sizing of sliders is derived from the desired inflation time, max Fx, and the q at deployment.

 

[BAMA_Recovery_Systems]

My system will be completely transferable between rockets, but would need different kites and maybe shock cords, depending on weight.

Why would it need to be different at all? Why not just a can system that attaches to shock cords? The electronics, servos, guidance program, chute (why are you using a kite?) And can could all be the same and a single point quick link connector.

 

[mpitfield]

Don't know if this is the right thread, but does anyone have experience using slider rings? Does it improve opening stability by a significant amount? Does it reduce the chance of shearing of the parachute fabric? Thanks.

I regularly use the Fruity Chutes slider ring on a 48" Iris Ultra deployed from a deployment bag using a12"pilot. Prior to using the tech the config was the same just minus the slider.

In all honestly my main usually deploys well out of sight, so I have yet to witness any appreciable difference on opening stability. However I was lucky enough in one flight to capture it in operation with my onboard camera, but barely and not in enough FPS detail to give any weighted evaluation.

Having said that it has been reliable and I believe that it does help with shock loads on deployment.

Just keep in mind that I really pay attention when packing and I subscribe to neatness counts and it's all in the details. I would say that generally the tech is forgiving but I am sure there are scenarios where the introduction of the tech can lead to a failure.

 

[Paulb06]

I worked on something like that, just an RC controller instead of GPS. I hope he can work past the issues I had. That was deployment. The chute worked, the controller worked, but I couldn't get any type of reliable deployment. Most of the time I had tangles and line overs and the chute just never inflated.

I wonder if we wouldn't be better served with a paracommander style round chute? They only have a speed over the ground of about 10mph but that should be enough and I suspect they would be easier to deploy....

 

[BAMA_Recovery_Systems]

I wonder if we wouldn't be better served with a paracommander style round chute? They only have a speed over the ground of about 10mph but that should be enough and I suspect they would be easier to deploy....

Parafoils like to deploy under specific conditions. If the conditions are not present then there is a large risk for malfunction.

 

[Paulb06]

Parafoils like to deploy under specific conditions. If the conditions are not present then there is a large risk for malfunction.

Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology? ...para-commander is what I remember calling them....its a slightly flattened round chute with 2 fairly large vents in the back to provide steering and forward speed. They were popular with sport jumpers before ram air foils took over