Aerotech Phoenix Motor?

[Kruegon]

I've got a motor question by proxy. Short story long:

One of our LHS has changed hands. The new owner is pushing R/C and Rockets pretty well. I offered him advice about AT motors. He has a stock of G40-7W and E30-4T Estes motors. I let him know about AT and how the Estes motors were actually AT motors.

One of the employees has an Aerotech Phoenix. Apparently this is an R/C boost glider. He has lost the motor for it. Doesn't recall what it was. I've never heard of it. Does anyone know what motor he needs to get this thing flying?

 

[pyrobob]

It uses the rather unique 32mm RMS system with an F13 or G12 according to this:

https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/c...tructions/Kit_Instructions/phoenix_manual.pdf

 

[samb]

Google Aerotech Master Motor Matrix, search this document for "rc" to get all the currently available glider motors.
You WILL get better at this search stuff, if ya want it bad enough! :tongue:


Two build threads in the Rocket Boosted Glider sub-forum.

 

[Kruegon]

Google Aerotech Master Motor Matrix, search this document for "rc" to get all the currently available glider motors.
You WILL get better at this search stuff, if ya want it bad enough! :tongue:


Two build threads in the Rocket Boosted Glider sub-forum.

For things I'm somewhat familiar with, I've figured out how to word the search string. When it's something I know nothing about, I'm. It sure what string to try. For instance, I didn't even know it was an RMS motor. But pyrobob said it's the 32 motor which I have seen listed on valuerockets.com before. Now that I know this much I can get the guy everything.

And on here… searches are often hard. A topic starts out at A but question after question leads to F which is what my question happened to be about.

I don't know why rocketry searches for me are harder than need be. When I search on any other subject I find all I need and more lol.

 

[Kruegon]

It uses the rather unique 32mm RMS system with an F13 or G12 according to this:

https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/c...tructions/Kit_Instructions/phoenix_manual.pdf

I'll check that out at home. Having trouble loading it on my phone. I found a link to it in my search on Google also, just could t open it and wasn't sure the launch I was good.

 

[samb]

Yeah, searching this place is much harder on mobile devices instead of my old fashioned desktop computer. Also when looking at a thread on the PC you get a nice section at the bottom called "Similar Threads" with a list of similar threads. And as has been pointed out many times:

"search argument" site:full website name

ie. "aerotech phoenix" site:www.rocketryforum.com

typed into a search engine yields much better results than this forums search function.

 

[Kruegon]

Good to know.

 

[Kruegon]

Got with the gentleman today and he said thank you to all those that helped him.

Now he has another question. I think I know the answer, but I'm going to let you all chime in.

Is there any reason he can't make an adapter and use the 29/40-120 case?

My guess is the glider may not survive that level of thrust. What's your opinion?

 

[djs]

What about an Estes F15 motor? or some other low thrust CTI motor, like the F29?

 

[ECayemberg]

I think a few loads in the 29/40-120 list would work...definitely the lower thrusting variants.

Motors I'll be trying in my Phoenix upon completion/when it warms up outside:

F20W
F14J (yeah, that's old)
G33J (kinda old)
G25W (the new 29/120 reload version)
G33 Mellow Yellow

There are others that will work...just have these in the inventory and slated for glider burns.

I think the Estes F15 would work fine, but I'd be concerned about "plugging" the engine. Just don't want any hot gases flowing out the front end of the motor with this or other rocket gliders.

Will let y'all know how they work!

 

[BBrown]

I think a few loads in the 29/40-120 list would work...definitely the lower thrusting variants.

Motors I'll be trying in my Phoenix upon completion/when it warms up outside:

F20W
F14J (yeah, that's old)
G33J (kinda old)
G25W (the new 29/120 reload version)
G33 Mellow Yellow

There are others that will work...just have these in the inventory and slated for glider burns.

I think the Estes F15 would work fine, but I'd be concerned about "plugging" the engine. Just don't want any hot gases flowing out the front end of the motor with this or other rocket gliders.

Will let y'all know how they work!

Eric,
I know you are a very experienced RC flyer so I'm a little reluctant to say what I'm about to say. Please feel free to dismiss my concerns seeing they come from a dumb old Kansan!

I'd be a little leary of flying a Phoenix on a couple of your motor choices above. Here's why: One of our club officers who is a VERY experienced RC flyer has been flying his Phoenix for the past season. On the initial flight he flew it on the 32mm F13 and we were both surprised at how fast and how high that motor boosted the Phoenix. Since then, he's been flying the G12 reload and if you allow it to continue to climb, it makes the Phoenix a pretty small speck in the sky. For review, let's remember that the G12 puts out an average thrust of 10.N and a total thrust of 87.2N. It weighs 131 grams loaded.
Now let's look at the G33 Mellow. That motor produces an average thrust of 32.7N (3.2X the G12) and a total thrust of 143N (1.6X the G12). The new G25 puts out 22.2N of average thrust (2.2X the G12) and has an total thrust of 117.5N (1.35X the G12). In addition, this motor is 66 grams heaver than the G-12.
My point to this rambling is that, when completed, your Phoenix is going to be a really light, aerodynamically clean flight vehicle. The G12 motor launches this aircraft to heights near my ability to properly and easily transition to glide mode. I don't believe that more thrust (both average and total) is going to be your friend. The 32mm case and the reloads are available. When more of us fly them getting them will only get easier. I'd hate to hear that one of these other motors did something bad to your Phoenix.
Do me a favor, if you elect to fly it on one of them, be sure someone it recording video. It will either be really cool or really cool!:wink:
Bob

 

[ECayemberg]

Eric,
I know you are a very experienced RC flyer so I'm a little reluctant to say what I'm about to say. Please feel free to dismiss my concerns seeing they come from a dumb old Kansan!

I'd be a little leary of flying a Phoenix on a couple of your motor choices above. Here's why: One of our club officers who is a VERY experienced RC flyer has been flying his Phoenix for the past season. On the initial flight he flew it on the 32mm F13 and we were both surprised at how fast and how high that motor boosted the Phoenix. Since then, he's been flying the G12 reload and if you allow it to continue to climb, it makes the Phoenix a pretty small speck in the sky. For review, let's remember that the G12 puts out an average thrust of 10.N and a total thrust of 87.2N. It weighs 131 grams loaded.
Now let's look at the G33 Mellow. That motor produces an average thrust of 32.7N (3.2X the G12) and a total thrust of 143N (1.6X the G12). The new G25 puts out 22.2N of average thrust (2.2X the G12) and has an total thrust of 117.5N (1.35X the G12). In addition, this motor is 66 grams heaver than the G-12.
My point to this rambling is that, when completed, your Phoenix is going to be a really light, aerodynamically clean flight vehicle. The G12 motor launches this aircraft to heights near my ability to properly and easily transition to glide mode. I don't believe that more thrust (both average and total) is going to be your friend. The 32mm case and the reloads are available. When more of us fly them getting them will only get easier. I'd hate to hear that one of these other motors did something bad to your Phoenix.
Do me a favor, if you elect to fly it on one of them, be sure someone it recording video. It will either be really cool or really cool!:wink:
Bob

Bob,

No need for reluctance; I very much appreciate the input! I'd been considering just installing a 29mm mount instead of the 32mm...you've convinced me to go with the 32mm! One can always adapt down!

I'll start with the lower impulse, lower thrusting F's and see where it goes from there. Was definitely planning to go light on impulse and avg. thrust at the Airfest mass launch....definitely looking to avoid adding anything *spectacular* to an already exciting event!

Thanks for the input...now off to order some servos and get the leading and trailing edges trimmed and fit up!

-Eric-

 

[JoeG]

I too would encourage you to go with the 32mm mount. Right after the Aerotech fire, many, many years ago now, I substituted what ever motors i could get for my Phoenix while Aerotech was rebuilding. Some worked better than others but for my money the G12 is by far the best motor for the Phoenix and as I grow older it does often strain my eyesight, Anything over the lowest average thrust motors would really give you a ride and always brought the structural integrity of the glider uppermost in my mind during the boost. Good luck with your build!

 

[mwtoelle]

I would definitely agree with keeping the motor mount stock on the Phoenix. IIRC, Aerotech did recommend the use of the old F14-P, If you had trouble locating 32mm reloads. I believe that the motor would fit in the 32mm case. Good luck on your build and many happy flights with it.