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Wow Ken. I totally missed this thread. Well done! Similar to how we used to wrap feathers on shafts to get a good spin. Launch looked really nice. Again, well done!!!
TRF Summer Build Off: SSC - Spiral Spin Can
- Thread starter KenECoyote
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Great job. Keep building them bigger and better!
Thanks Kevin! I've seen some arrows with angled fletchings, but not spiral...that'd be cool!
Thanks and I'm itching to go bigger!
On a side note, I've been somewhat undecided about a name...while I like "Oh Mah Swirls" for the little test rocket, I'm thinking of other possibilities for an upscale...
Spiral Obsession
Twisted Thoughts
Power Drill
Swirly Bird
Driller Thriller
Helical Fury
Swirl E. Coyote
What do you guys think? Any suggestions?
Spiral Obsession
Twisted Thoughts
Power Drill
Swirly Bird
Driller Thriller
Helical Fury
Swirl E. Coyote
What do you guys think? Any suggestions?
Gary Byrum
Overstable By Design
A spinoff from one in the list....Thrill Drill
grapetang
Space Frog Fan
That's definitely something a little different. Congrats on the flights!
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Right Round Baby
dixontj93060
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I'll add that to the considerations list!
Believe it or not, that was one of my favorite songs from the mid 80's (if not the favorite!); however it also brings back memories of big 80's hair, funky clothes, bad dancing and men with make up and an eye patch. Not sure if that quite goes with the rocket unless I paint it purple and draw an eye patch on the nose cone. :wink: I may still name one of the upscales with that if popular enough though...
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I'll add in that Dick Stafford thought of a really cool name he used on one of his spinning rockets..."Screw Up".
If I build a HP one, maybe I'll name it "Major Screw Up". :cyclops:
If I build a HP one, maybe I'll name it "Major Screw Up". :cyclops:
Here's a pic of the damage from the first launch...very perplexing since I had launched over many, many mini rockets this year and hadn't seen such occur...I think the nose cone snapped straight back into the tube. Oh well. I've cut off 1.5" and will use that to possibly test a shorter version.
So I'm now thinking upscale; however there are so many options. I'm considering 29mm for minimum diameter and I have body tubes for that as well as sleeves that fit over well; however that means either single deploy or mini dd (which I haven' t done yet and would make it more complex). I can go 38mm (which allows for using a Chute Release) and also use a 29-38mm adapter for the motor; however that means stronger material than cardboard for the fins (Kydex?) and that may take a lot longer and even more testing. Even more out there would be a 29mm bt transitioned to 38mm upper and a 38mm lower rotating shroud using 29-38mm centering rings...an entire lower rotating cylindrical assembly...even the possibility of using ball bearings/needle roller bearings/thrust bearings on a fiberglass build...that would be way cool, but it sounds more like a winter project after some cardboard Mid-Power flights.
Right now I'm thinking 29mm MD...possibly CF main tube and cardboard spiral fin assembly first and then possibly plastic fins if I can figure it out. I've ordered a 29mm slimline retainer and have just contacted the seller to see if I can add in a 38mm just in case. I may also adjust the fin spacing to allow the use of micro rail buttons...we'll see.
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I think so too! Then if that works well, it can maybe scream on some AP motors.
Maybe I'll go 29mm with a large streamer. The areas I launch from are very tricky, so having a rocket that flies up straight and comes down precisely is a gem.
I think so too! Then if that works well, it can maybe scream on some AP motors.
Maybe I'll go 29mm with a large streamer. The areas I launch from are very tricky, so having a rocket that flies up straight and comes down precisely is a gem.
54mm later on?
Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
I'd LOVE to! However that would most likely be in steps...first 24/29mm, then (not necessarily in order and some can be combined): HP, Fiberglass, CF, 38mm, 54mm, DD, Ball bearings (?). I'd really like to eventually have a 54mm FG/CF with ball bearings on the lower spiral fin can and a mounted camera.
One of the tricky parts right now is figuring a good fin material for HP fins...should be flexible enough for the spiral but strong for HP and also be able to glue in place quickly and firmly. Many choices out there to test including Styrene, PVC, Fiberglass, Kydex, Lexan and others. Anyone got any suggestions?
I'd LOVE to! However that would most likely be in steps...first 24/29mm, then (not necessarily in order and some can be combined): HP, Fiberglass, CF, 38mm, 54mm, DD, Ball bearings (?). I'd really like to eventually have a 54mm FG/CF with ball bearings on the lower spiral fin can and a mounted camera.
One of the tricky parts right now is figuring a good fin material for HP fins...should be flexible enough for the spiral but strong for HP and also be able to glue in place quickly and firmly. Many choices out there to test including Styrene, PVC, Fiberglass, Kydex, Lexan and others. Anyone got any suggestions?
Oh dont worry, it will happen sooner or later >
.Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
Oh dont worry, it will happen sooner or later >
More likely next year since I have a number of other projects that are fairly high priority commitments, but you never know...
Been looking through the options for "plastic" fins on a 29-38mm and one that would be really cool if it works is this...
Would be awesome for night launches with a glow stick taped to the base of each fin!
Unfortunately it's acrylic, which is fragile and prone to breakage from what I've heard; however I'm hoping that being curved and shorter than normal fins, they will be stronger...we'll see. I'm having a lot of trouble finding suitable flexible plastic for upscales. Fiberglass may be an option, but I'm not sure if it can be twisted enough (even with heat) and that is a lot of testing as well.
I've also started looking at possibly doing a Fiberglass 29mm main tube with 38mm roller-bearing shroud extending up to a 38mm chute compartment so I can go HP and use a Chute release. Sounds simple, right?
However I'll likely just make a 29mm cardboard one next...smaller steps!
Back to small scale prototyping, I wanted to make one where there was a gap between the fins for the rod. This one ended taking a lot longer than the first since the curve was way more gradual meaning a much larger radius (almost 3x larger!). I actually tried to find the formula for the radius of a section of helix, but the ones that looked promising/appropriate didn't seem to work for me. Oh well, I'll figure that part out later.
Since I had a gap between the fins, I made the fin can shorter so there would be more angle to make up for it. Now this version is more like that of an arrow with angled vanes/fletchings, but is still "swirly". While at it, I made a separate small counter rotating fin can at the bottom to test for later...hoping that will produce some nice sound, but we'll see. Planning on some test flights this weekend.
Also I think I've figured out how to make this "semi-modular".
Since I had a gap between the fins, I made the fin can shorter so there would be more angle to make up for it. Now this version is more like that of an arrow with angled vanes/fletchings, but is still "swirly". While at it, I made a separate small counter rotating fin can at the bottom to test for later...hoping that will produce some nice sound, but we'll see. Planning on some test flights this weekend.
Also I think I've figured out how to make this "semi-modular".
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More likely next year since I have a number of other projects that are fairly high priority commitments, but you never know...
Been looking through the options for "plastic" fins on a 29-38mm and one that would be really cool if it works is this...
Would be awesome for night launches with a glow stick taped to the base of each fin!
Unfortunately it's acrylic, which is fragile and prone to breakage from what I've heard; however I'm hoping that being curved and shorter than normal fins, they will be stronger...we'll see. I'm having a lot of trouble finding suitable flexible plastic for upscales. Fiberglass may be an option, but I'm not sure if it can be twisted enough (even with heat) and that is a lot of testing as well.
I've also started looking at possibly doing a Fiberglass 29mm main tube with 38mm roller-bearing shroud extending up to a 38mm chute compartment so I can go HP and use a Chute release. Sounds simple, right?
That would be awesome, as far as using fiberglass, its as simple as using a curved surface instead of a flat one to get that curved fin. No need to hasle with heating it to get it to bend.
Best save that stuff for later lad. I think its better to start off with paper and balsa to see what works and what doesnt.
Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
Well, you're assuming I'm planning on laying the fiberglass myself, but that isn't the case (at least not in the near future). I was thinking of cutting it from sheet and bending/twisting it to shape...same as I'm doing now with the small rockets and same as I was thinking for acrylic/lexan/kydex fins.
For you it likely isn't a problem to do it in FG or CF...and that would be really cool.
BTW - Can you heat, twist and set CF sheet?
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Ken. What you want to do is come up with some sort of Helical jig like we used to use in Archery. Would make getting the fins on a snap. While this isn't as strong of a helical as you have, it represents what I mean..one of the old Jo Jan helical fletching jigs.
Something like that would be cool...I even gave a bit of thought to making something like that, but I'm thinking it would be simpler and easier if I glue one edge down and heat, twist, glue, repeat. We'll see.
I'd LOVE to! However that would most likely be in steps...first 24/29mm, then (not necessarily in order and some can be combined): HP, Fiberglass, CF, 38mm, 54mm, DD, Ball bearings (?). I'd really like to eventually have a 54mm FG/CF with ball bearings on the lower spiral fin can and a mounted camera.
On the LP version, did you do anything special to enable the fin "can" (really stretching the term here
) to spin smoothly on the main BT?I'm also trying (unsuccessfully) to mindsim what is the effect (other than coolness) of having the fin can spin on its own rather than just letting the whole rocket spin...
On the LP version, did you do anything special to enable the fin "can" (really stretching the term here
I'm also trying (unsuccessfully) to mindsim what is the effect (other than coolness) of having the fin can spin on its own rather than just letting the whole rocket spin...
I didn't do anything special...in that scale, the larger tube just happened to be a near perfect fit to spin but not wobble.
The LP 18mm/24mm builds I'm considering will have "collars"/"cans" made from paper or card stock, which is wrapped around the tube and glued...in fact, I just made two this morning for my 18mm bt:
Funny thing is that the spinning can was an afterthought...it resulted from my building the mini rockets in a modular style...with a sleeve, I can simply switch out different fin cans or slip the current fin can onto another prepped body tube for a quick launch (such as I did for the A10 club launch when I found the front of the tube pranged). While doing the spiral fins, it just seemed natural that they should spin. Additionally, I recalled an on board video I saw last year of a large research rocket launch where they had a fin collar which spun (although it wasn't apparent that the fin was canted) and in researching that, it seemed that (or I guessed that) it was done to correct for imperfections in the fins. That particular rocket looked very big budget, so I was guessing those guys knew what they were doing; however that seemed way beyond most people's capabilities here and an overkill for recreational purposes.
I was actually just thinking that I've yet to test the fins not spinning; however given how straight the first two launches are, I doubt they'd be the same or better - having done quite a few spinning rockets already earlier this year (but of a completely different design...not hard to guess what that would be). I'll eventually test it as well, but from my earlier tests of a very "spinny" rocket, it wasn't ideal since it would wobble a bit on coast and can be wacky on deploy (the stuff comes out all spinning like a crazy out of control washer throwing out laundry). So given my experience, I think the spinning can is a very good thing on this rocket.
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Well, you're assuming I'm planning on laying the fiberglass myself, but that isn't the case (at least not in the near future). I was thinking of cutting it from sheet and bending/twisting it to shape...same as I'm doing now with the small rockets and same as I was thinking for acrylic/lexan/kydex fins.
For you it likely isn't a problem to do it in FG or CF...and that would be really cool.
BTW - Can you heat, twist and set CF sheet?
Maybe someone can correct me on this, but maybe if you get it to its Tg you can warp it, but in the process might ruin it. I do know for a fact there is a resin that you can heat up and shape it. I dont know where you can get it, however.
I bet someone can 3D print me a curved dome to make the curved fins. It would be so easy to lay a fiberglass or carbon sheet.
Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
I saw some CF sheet on ebay (listed as 100% carbon fiber...is there a way to verify?) and the pic shows it molded into a bike seat; however I'm not sure about if that is actually possible and the implication that you can cover or make a bike with it is ridiculous:
If it wasn't so costly, I would buy it to test with, but for now, it's another back burner project.
I saw some CF sheet on ebay (listed as 100% carbon fiber...is there a way to verify?) and the pic shows it molded into a bike seat; however I'm not sure about if that is actually possible and the implication that you can cover or make a bike with it is ridiculous:
If it wasn't so costly, I would buy it to test with, but for now, it's another back burner project.
When it comes to those dealers you definitely got to watch out. It may be 100% carbon, but it could be a weak modulus carbon that just sucks.
I can make a thin sheet that you should be able to bend, however you will have to hold it in place while you are bonding it to the body tube.
Even thin fiberglass should be able to be bent and when it comes down to it, I'd use fiberglass over carbon, because its cheaper. Thats of course if you want carbon strength and looks
.Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
When it comes to those dealers you definitely got to watch out. It may be 100% carbon, but it could be a weak modulus carbon that just sucks.
I can make a thin sheet that you should be able to bend, however you will have to hold it in place while you are bonding it to the body tube.
Even thin fiberglass should be able to be bent and when it comes down to it, I'd use fiberglass over carbon, because its cheaper. Thats of course if you want carbon strength and looks
Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
Ah, thanks for the heads up Alex!
Also thanks for the option of custom thin sheet...I may discuss that with you at a later time if/when I go CF on this baby. For now, I want to focus more on developing a good fin pattern and the paper ones, then the cheaper plastic first before going CF since it would be quite a shame to waste such beautiful material! :no:Gotta head off for a family hike, but I'll update later today - I got in 3 launches in earlier this morning...stay tuned! :grin:
Ah, thanks for the heads up Alex!
Gotta head off for a family hike, but I'll update later today - I got in 3 launches in earlier this morning...stay tuned! :grin:
Soungs good, we can actually start with fiberglass as I have a ton of that stuff. Should make great test subjects before going CF
.Have fun hiking
Alexander Solis - TRA Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
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