Can I get my G33 back?

[geof]

I've always wanted to fly a G33 (or equiv) without losing the casing or rocket. Seems like every rocket I build is either too heavy for it to get off the pad safely with G33, or too light that the rocket will go into orbit.

I finally have a candidate, maybe. 25in tall 2.0in OD, 3fnc 16.2oz rocket. That 16.2oz includes about 3.5oz of extra lead nose weight inserted (in principle) solely for the purpose of keeping down the altitude. Not needed for stability. Approx 30in chute.

With those parameters, rocksim gives me 2345ft on a G33.

Suppose I paint it in bright or dark colors like red or black. Do you think it can be visually tracked to 2300ft? I don't want to lose my casing! The long burn will help with the smoke trail, but still--that's a long way up for such a small rocket.

What do you think? Please don't tell me to buy or borrow any tracking electronics...this question is purely for standard visual tracking and recovery.

Geof

PS. Think I could see it at 5300ft on a H180?

 

[Donaldsrockets]

I've flown my AT ARCAS quite a few times on the G33-5J. According to AT, the predicted alt for that motor was about 1,300 feet which looked about right.

I'd say go with a 2.6 inch diameter, 4 or 5 foot tall rocket which would probably give you about the same altitude.

I loved the G33J but the new G53FJ is awesome. Much more dense and higher thrust IMO.

 

[geof]

Well, the rocket is all built (sort of) except for the nose weight. The question is about recovering this *particular* rocket.

(Sort of: I'm going to fashion a special-shape nose cone, and everything needs paint + recovery system)

Geof

 

[troj]

First off, Rocksim tends to be fairly optimistic on its sims. I'm betting you'll be at 2,000 or under.

That said, it's still quite a haul on a small rocket.

One thing to consider is whether or not your additional nose weight is pushing you closer to optimal mass. Have you run sims both with and without it, and compared them?

As far as recovery goes, I'd consider a Pratt Microbeacon to help with finding it.

For recovery itself, you want parachute colors that stand out in the sky, and others that stand out on the ground. For that reason, a parachute that's has black and a neon pink or neon orange would probably be best.

-Kevin

 

[MarkH]

Build a Goblin clone or similar. Take them both to the field. Launch the Goblin on a D12 which gets to around 1800 ft. If you can track the Goblin you should be able to follow your larger kit. I'd say the 30" chute should be visible from 2300 '.

 

[DAllen]

Clear skies, colorful rocket, colorful parachute and a few friends to help out I see no reason why you couldn't see it. We have a guy in our club who routinely flies his LOC Aura (a smaller rocket) on G64's and have managed to find it every time.

You do have to be careful about upper level winds. It may seem calm on the ground but things can be a lot windier up a few thousand feet. I made a sacrificial rocket from spare parts just for that reason. It's just a min dia. 24mm and I would fly it on a E9 or something that I wouldn't mind loosing. That usually gave me a fairly good indication of what was happening way up there.

-Dave

 

[Handeman]

First off, Rocksim tends to be fairly optimistic on its sims. I'm betting you'll be at 2,000 or under.

That said, it's still quite a haul on a small rocket.

One thing to consider is whether or not your additional nose weight is pushing you closer to optimal mass. Have you run sims both with and without it, and compared them?

...snip
-Kevin

I agree, 2K or slightly less is more likely. I really doubt the nose cone weight is going towards optimal mass, almost certainly taking it out will get more alt on a G. I have a altitude contest rocket I built with a Cd about .45 that was at 10 oz and needed to be down about 7 oz to be optimal for a G motor. 13 to 14 oz was optimal for a an H motor.

 

[MarkII]

I'm not sure, but a 30" chute strikes me as a little large for that size rocket. A smaller chute will be harder to find in the sky, though. So maybe a 30" chute with a spill-hole might be the right choice, bringing it down without letting it drift out of sight.

I envy your ability to even contemplate a 2,000 foot flight. Where I fly, anything over 1,000 ft. will be right into the woods (and there are lots of woods!). And that's on a dead calm day.

MarkII

 

[geof]

It is approx 7 miles to the nearest tree.

The extra nose weight would move it away from optimal mass.

 

[MarkII]

It is approx 7 miles to the nearest tree.

The extra nose weight would move it away from optimal mass.

Awesome! I see places like that from time to time, but only when I'm sleeping...

MarkII

 

[bguffer]

Attach a 2"x25' Metallic PVC Streamers to your recovery rig
from:
https://www.aerotechnic.com/streamers/specialty/

Sun reflects and shimmers off the streamer. I've only tried the silver color. Silver works great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjACQjbzTAU&feature=channel_page

A TRF'er put me on to these. They claimed they could see them at a mile high. I've seen them at 1800'. Haven't tried anything higher yet.


I think 24" chute (no spill hole) would be plenty big.

 

[shreadvector]

G33 was replaced by the G53. The G33 was a High Power Motor because it had more than 62.5 grams of propellant. This was a major PITA because too many people did not understand the 62.5 gram limit and assumed it was a Model Rocket Motor.

The G53 will lift a bit more as it has a higher initial/peak and average thrust. Being a Fast Black Jack ("FJ") it still produces a decent amount of smoke, but since it moves faster the smoke will not "bunch up" under the slow moving rocket. And it's MUCH easier to ignite. AND it is a bifurcated motor meaning the propellant comes in 2 30 gram segments so that retailers who are authorized to ship motors legally can ship them USPS ground parcel post and avoid HAZMAT fees.

Since I'm L1, I flew a bunch of G33 reloads in my Initiator at NARAM 50. Gotta burn up that old inventory so vendors are not stuck with old motors that lose their certification. They went very, very high.

https://www.nar.org/SandT/NARenglist.shtml

https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Aerotech/G33.pdf

https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Aerotech/G53FJ.pdf

 

[hilltopper]

G33's were awsome in saucers also

 

[Pantherjon]

I have a G33 that I plan on using this weekend!

 

[hardinlw]

I have flown an Aerotech Cheeta on G80's many times and never lost it. Aerotech says it will hit 3300' and it is a tiny dot when the chute pops. As I recall, the Cheeta is 1.8" diameter, so it's even smaller than your rocket and still stays in sight. A beeper will make it easier to find in tall grass (or corn, as once happened to me). I believe the Cheeta uses an 18" chute, so your 30" is probably too big. It may hook a thermal and never come down.

 

[FROB]

My 2 cents is to remove the lead-
on a clear day, you should be able keep track of it if you dont get distracted and lose sight of it.

My worry would be to avoid weathercocking, and drifting away in the wind -so keep the weight down, the faster its going off the rod the straighter it will fly especially if there's a breeze.

I often fly in the 3000-7000 feet range and its surprising how strong the wind is above 1000' , and often in a different direction too- even when its dead calm on the ground. Thats whats most likely to steal your casing.

If your fins can take it and you have a soft field, use a long streamer only, or a very small x-form chute. A 16-18" regular chute with a spill hole or a 24" x-form is the biggest i'd go.
I understand if you don't want to spend money on electronics, but sooner or later you'll probably want to get an altimeter, even a basic one, that can do dual-deploy for this very reason.

 

[Handeman]

I agree with the small chute or streamer.

The winds can definately be very different at higher altitudes, even 500ft and be very different. Most of the time they are much stronger higher, but I lost my Kracken last launch because the lower winds were much stronger. It kind of worked like dual deploy. It came down fine to about 400ft and then never got lower, just further away.

I was using the chute that came with the Kraken with it driffed off (second time that happened). Most of the time the chutes that come with the kits are undersized, but not always. Don't be scared to go with a smaller chute if you need to.

 

[geof]

I agree with the small chute or streamer.

. It kind of worked like dual deploy. It came down fine to about 400ft and then never got lower, just further away.

I can share a chuckle at that. I lost my 18mm case that way on a very hot summer day. It came down to about 250 feet, then started back upward and northward until it was out of sight. It might have been at 750ft when it vanished. Heh. Oh well.