Upscale Omega/Cineroc

[jadebox]

My current big rocketry project is an approximately 2X upscale of the Estes Omega and its Cineroc payload.

The original rocket had two-stages and flew on D motors. My clone is single stage, but includes both sets of fins to duplicate the look of the original. The original Cineroc was a movie camera. My cloned version will have a small digital video camera in the payload section.

As I build the rocket, I'll describe my progess and show photos on my web site at:

https://www.payloadbay.com/article-my-current-project---upscaled-cinerocomega.html

I designed the upscale Omega/Cineroc using Rocksim and discovered it's going to be bigger and heavier than I'd hoped. I wanted it to fly on an H motor, but it looks like I'll probably have to use an I. I want to use dual-deployment more for redundancy
than because of the rocket's altitude at apogee.

While I'm finishing the Omega, I'm going to finish the Cineroc payload and launch it on my EZI-65 a few times. I'll also upgrade the EZI-65 to use dual-deployment. This will give me some practice using dual-deployment and larger motors before I fly the Omega/Cineroc. I think the EZI-65 is more sturdy and forgiving than the Omega/Cineroc will be, so it's a better platform for practicing.

-- Roger

 

[Pem Tech]

I see you are figerglassing the LOC 3" tubing and intend on flying her on 29&38mm motors.
At what point (power range/weight) does one need to start fiberglassing?

 

[ben]

Originally posted by Pem Tech
I see you are figerglassing the LOC 3" tubing and intend on flying her on 29&38mm motors.
At what point (power range/weight) does one need to start fiberglassing?

its all preferance and model type. I am fiberglassing the fins on my 18mm Deuce so I can fly it on AT D's. So it all depends on the model. But I would sy anything over an H should have SOME fiberglass

thanx, Ben

 

[jadebox]

Originally posted by Pem Tech
I see you are figerglassing the LOC 3" tubing and intend on flying her on 29&38mm motors.
At what point (power range/weight) does one need to start fiberglassing?

I'm no expert, but I think what Ben said is correct. It's a good rule-of-thumb to say you need fiberglass for motors larger than an H. But it may be needed for smaller motors in special cases.

For flights on an H motor you may be okay without fiberglassing. For example, my EZI-65 is bulky - 4" in diameter and not too long. So, it probably didn't need to be fiberglassed to fly on an H motor. But I wanted to build the rocket heavy on purpose to keep the altitude down for my Level 1 Certification flight. And I though the glassing would help if I decide to fly the rocket on a larger motor later.

The Omega is long and thin (3" in diameter) with a heavy 4" payload section on top. So I think it needs as much strength in the body tubes as I can provide. I'm also going to extend the motor mount tube as much as possible and include several centering rings on it to help beef up the lower body tube. And for a little more strength on top, I'm considering gluing a coupler inside the upper body tube between the transition to the payload section and the altimeter bay/coupler which will join the two sections of the booster.

BTW, I find fiberglassing to be a messy job, but not too difficult if you're careful to have everything ready before you start. Make sure the cloths are precut and you have all the tools and stuff you need close by before you put on gloves and mix the epoxy. And have all the tubes you want glassed ready so you can do them all at once. Once you get started, you won't want to stop until the job is done.

For my 4" EZI-65 I used a fiberglass "sock" from Giant Leap which made the job a little easier. I still had to add a layer of finer cloth on top, though.

Working on the Omega, I ran into a problem with heat. It was a hot day here in Central Florida and the epoxy started to overheat. It actually started smoking. I had to move the epoxy into the shade which made things more difficult as I had to continually walk to get more epoxy.

The nose cone was also difficult because you can't just wrap a layer of fiberglass cloth over it. I cut out a bunch of triangle-shaped pieces of cloth and some strips and covered the styrofoam cone as if I were doing paper mache. The result didn't look too good at first. But I sanded it a lot and used wood filler to patch some spots and the final result is really quite nice.

-- Roger

 

[jadebox]

At last Saturday's NEFAR launch, I made a couple of test flights of my "upscale Cineroc" with it's digital camcorder payload. Since the Omega rocket isn't ready yet, I replaced the payload section of my EZI-65 with the Cineroc.

Both flights were close to perfect, but I accidently turned the camera off when loading it the first time. So I only have video from the second flight.

I'm very impressed by the video. The quality and sound are good and there's only one minor glitch in the recording.

You can watch the video and see stills from it at:

https://www.payloadbay.com/gallery/v/projects/omega/test01/

-- Roger

 

[Fore Check]

Originally posted by jadebox
I'm no expert, but I think what Ben said is correct. It's a good rule-of-thumb to say you need fiberglass for motors larger than an H. But it may be needed for smaller motors in special cases.

For flights on an H motor you may be okay without fiberglassing. For example, my EZI-65 is bulky - 4" in diameter and not too long. So, it probably didn't need to be fiberglassed to fly on an H motor. But I wanted to build the rocket heavy on purpose to keep the altitude down for my Level 1 Certification flight. And I though the glassing would help if I decide to fly the rocket on a larger motor later.

I disagree with this "rule of thumb" non-sense.

I well-built model made of kraft paper tubing and wood fins will survive J impulse flights if built with wood glue and no fiberglass.

It all depends on the velocities. If your going to approach 1000 fps max velocity (approching Mach 1), glass. If you are safely sub-sonic, glassing is not necessary. This is entirely independent of total installed impulse (H, I, J, whatever.)

 

[Fore Check]

Oh - on the Omega.

Here's a couple of pics of an upscale Omega that is on a similar scale to your project. These pics were taken at NSL 2004 in Hearne, Texas by Jim Flis.

 

[jadebox]

Originally posted by Fore Check
Oh - on the Omega.

Here's a couple of pics of an upscale Omega that is on a similar scale to your project. These pics were taken at NSL 2004 in Hearne, Texas by Jim Flis.

That's a nice looking rocket. It's a more accurate upscale than the one I'm doing. Mine's going to look like it's been stretched a bit.

Thanks!

-- Roger

 

[jadebox]

My "Upscale Omega" finally made its first flight.

It flew on an I200 motor and the flight was close to perfect. I don't have a large enough parachute that will fit in the rocket yet. So I didn't fly the Omega with its Cineroc payload. Instead I used a 3" nose cone that my wife won in a raffle. It came preloaded with about a pound of weight added.

The photo makes it appear that I added a nice boat tail. Actually that's a 29mm to 38mm motor adapter with a Slimline retainer in a 38mm to 54mm adapter with a Slimline retainer in a 54mm motor mount with a Slimline retainer.

The rocket's still unpainted. Now that it's proven itself, I'll invest the time in a nice paint job.

-- Roger

 

[jflis]

Originally posted by Fore Check
Oh - on the Omega.

Here's a couple of pics of an upscale Omega that is on a similar scale to your project. These pics were taken at NSL 2004 in Hearne, Texas by Jim Flis.

Having built an Omega (but never a Cineroc), that beast was a near perfect upscale. It was a beaut, I remember that one well

 

[tbzep]

Originally posted by Fore Check
I disagree with this "rule of thumb" non-sense.

I well-built model made of kraft paper tubing and wood fins will survive J impulse flights if built with wood glue and no fiberglass.

It all depends on the velocities. If your going to approach 1000 fps max velocity (approching Mach 1), glass. If you are safely sub-sonic, glassing is not necessary. This is entirely independent of total installed impulse (H, I, J, whatever.)

I agree. I've had great success in 3", 4" and 7.5" airframes with J, L, and M motors. (Hmmm, I just realized I've never flown a K motor.) The only thing I've ever fiberglassed in rocketry is nosecones that I've made with foam cores.

 

[jadebox]

Originally posted by tbzep
I agree. I've had great success in 3", 4" and 7.5" airframes with J, L, and M motors. (Hmmm, I just realized I've never flown a K motor.) The only thing I've ever fiberglassed in rocketry is nosecones that I've made with foam cores.

I wrote that "rule of thumb" message some time ago and even now I still consider myself a newbie when it comes to HPR.

I fiberglassed both of my current high-power rockets. I don't think they absolutely needed it, but it was good practice for the future and I think it makes them more durable.

My EZI-65 landed on a sharp rocket at the Winternationals. In the middle of miles of sod, my rocket found the only rock! The paint was chipped, but the body tube is undamaged. I'm not sure that would have been the case if it wasn't fiberglassed.

The nose cone of the "Cineroc" payload I built for the Omega is crafted from a foam cone covered with fiberglass. I did that because I couldn't find a cone shaped like the Cineroc's. I found it quite a challenge to get the fiberglass to lay down over the foam shape, but after a lot of filling and sanding, I'm pleased with the result.

I think there's another advantage to having a foam core nose cone on my Cineroc. I have a threaded rod running through the nose cone and the payload section. It provides an anchor on the tip of the nose cone. This allows me to rig the recovery system to have the camera point down during recovery. It also allows me to switch out whether I put a 4" coupler or a 4" to 3" transition on the other end of the Cineroc. That way I can use the camera on either my EZI-65 or Omega.

The rod is topped with an eye nut at the tip of the nose cone (it took me a while to find an "eye nut"), so it's not like it has a sharp point. But, the idea of a metal rod sticking out the top of a rocket worried me when I was designing and building it. Since then I've seen a lot of rockets with pounds of lead shot in the nose cone (like the one I used on the Omega's first flight). And I've never seen one cause any damage, so I'm not as concerned about it as I was.

Nevertheless, if the Cineroc rocket happens to come in ballistic, the foam-core nose cone should collapse and the threaded rod will just push through the payload section. I purposefully designed it so nothing will prevent it from doing that. Although I doubt it would save the camera, it would be less likely to damage anything on the ground.

-- Roger

 

[tbzep]

Sounds like a really nice project. I'll have to watch the videos when I'm at home. I'm blocked out here at work.

 

[jadebox]

I haven't finished painting the upscale Omega, but I want to launch it tomorrow at the NEFAR launch with its "Cineroc" video camera. I did put several layers of white primer on the rocket, however, so it's mostly the correct color. So, as a quick fix, I printed the Omega's blue and black decal designs onto label sticker paper and stuck them to the fins. I had to tack it down with white glue.

It actually looks pretty good! I was planning on painting the decal designs onto the rocket, but I may stick with stickers. I need to adjust the size a bit - the stickers I made are a touch too small - but the technique seems to have worked better than I expected!

I was having a hard time fitting a large enough parachute into the rocket which is why I didn't launch it with the camera last month. But I recently purchased a Rocket Rage parachute designed for up to a 30 pound rocket. It seems to fit. Since this rocket weighs only about 10 pounds, I think the 'chute is big enough.

I'll take some photos tomorrow and post them.

-- Roger

 

[jadebox]

Here's a photo of the rocket with the temporary stick-on "decals":

I flew the rocket on an H268 and the flight was very nice. The video came out well also.

-- Roger

 

[jadebox]

Here's a link to the video from the camera inside the "Cineroc":

https://www.payloadbay.com/gallery/d/13832-2/2007-03-10+Upscale+Cineroc.wmv

Additional photos - including stills from the video - are at:

https://www.payloadbay.com/gallery/v/projects/omega/first-full/

-- Roger