Tire replacement: Am I getting ripped off?

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I also bring the wheel/tire to the shop rather than dropping off the car.

Couple of reasons, 1) I don't particularly want them messing with my vehicles and stuff my life depends on, 2) I can still drive around while the shop is working on the wheel/tire, 3) I have a compressor and full complement of air tools, hydraulic jacks, stands, etc.
 
El Cheapo said:
20s actually. It's a big tire 275.55.r20. The last set was 305s. They were a bit wider. I bet yer burban would look cooler and be a lot happier if you strapped these shoes on her :cool:
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i was joking with the 26" rims... i figured you bought nice 20". and there is a big difference in the cheap vs you get what you pay for....

I dont mind being dumb looking with 17" wheels... my suburban is an 07, i have already busted 120k on the odometer... needless to say, i dont mind the cheaper tires since i buy them almost yearly... almost time for another set.

o1d_dude said:
I also bring the wheel/tire to the shop rather than dropping off the car.
Click to expand...

Main reson for me, is my "baby" only has 2 3/4" ground clearance.... I have to put 2x4's in front of the tires, drive them up onto the 2x4, then i can slide a low profile jack under it.
the last alignment job i did, i had to trailer it to a place that had a special pit.(most tire places dont have it... )
 
Nice... I used to have an '89 with a 9/6 drop, phantom front end, totally shaved and capped. Loved that truck. That was before air bags were commercially available and wasnt really into stealing them off a semi trailer.
 
El Cheapo said:
Nice... I used to have an '89 with a 9/6 drop, phantom front end, totally shaved and capped. Loved that truck. That was before air bags were commercially available and wasnt really into stealing them off a semi trailer.
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the suburban isnt low... its the family/rocket car... drive it till the wheels fall off... my buddy had a 9/6 drop and it was ROUGH... we ended up bagging it, then it gets exciting when your going down the highway and a valve goofs on you....

My baby is a 97 mustang GT convertable, (base) then some saleen, steeda, rousch, svo stuff...
its lowered 2 1/4" in the front and 1 7/8" in the back. the side exaughst is only 2" from the pavement. it has 18 x 10.5s all around, (20's would have required rolling the fender- and i didnt feel like doing that.. plus i didnt want to cut out the a arm)
it is a dust queen with a blown motor... i cant wait till my son gets a little older, so we can build a new motor for it.
 
Ended up switching out to a 6/4 drop on the Burban (got tired of replacing spring pans) and added helper bags to tow the boat before I bought the YukonXL. It was a pain because it didn't have any side-view mirrors :y:

The Yukon is stock ride height. It's towed probably 10 days a month up until the last year which is why I didn't go with a lower profile tire. If you've ever taco'd a rim, it's not fun. The wheels are Dolce DC6. I've never seen another set on the road which is nice. Maybe there's a reason for that...lol They were my first post divorce purchase so are a little flashy had I really thought about it. Plus, the advertising didn't hurt.

Sorry for the hijack.
 
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The laws of physics disagree about where new tires go on a front wheel drive car.

They go on the front. You steer with the front wheels, you power with the front wheels, the front wheels are more highly loaded than the back wheels. That's where you need the traction.

The rear wheels are more lightly loaded than the fronts in a front wheel drive car. Assuming you have decent tread on the old tires, they have more than enough grip to keep the back wheels behind the fronts.

As for tire pressure, the higher the tire pressure, the higher the cornering force developed. All tires have a stamp on the sideway giving a load rating and a pressure. The load rating is proportional to the tire pressure. If a tire has a load rating of 1800 pounds at 45 psi, the rating drops to 1200 pounds at 30 psi. The problem with the Explorer was the same problem that all SUVs have. They have a high center of gravity. In the early days of SUVs, the spring rates were high to retard rolling, but that gives a hard ride, so as SUVs became a popular family vehicle instead of the utility vehicle they were designed to be, the spring rates were reduce to give a softer ride which in turn makes the vehicle lean more in a turn.

Ford lowered their Explorer tire pressure recommendation from about 32 psi (their design pressure) to 26 psi to pass a specific roll test. Unfortunately this test did not accurately simulate the real world driving errors of young drivers driving too fast who turn then brake, instead of braking and then turning, which is guaranteed to roll a high CG, weakly sprung vehicle with under inflated tires. Coupled to the myth that 4 wheel drives are safer than a regular car, few SUV drivers wear seat belts, so when it rolls, the driver and passengers are frequently ejected and are killed impacting the road, in what would have been a very survivable, but embarrassing accident.

Nough said.

Bob
 
$0.02.

I've always put the new tires on the front, with either front or rear wheel drive vehicles. Never thought about it and never noticed a safer or less safe ride in the rain.

I've also had tire stores replace only 1 tire from a set, with a bunch of miles on them. That one time I did put the new one on the rear, as I thought the diameter difference would be bad for the front wheel drive differential. That car did drive a bit funny, but never in a way I thought unsafe, just a slight difference when cornering left or right.

I now get tire warranties on any tire that costs more that $50, which is pretty much any tire I get. I live in an area where there's always at least a little construction going on and get nails/screws every year or two. They have replaced the tire instead of plugging if it was anywhere near the edge of the tire, which I agree with.

My experience with the chain Discount Tire has been great. A co-worker had a less than great experience, as they damaged the chrome wheels on his truck. They agreed it was damaged, but instead of replacing all 4 wheels at their cost, they asked if they would have them buffed out (chrome over aluminum, I think, but don't quote me). They gave him 4 loaner wheels with new tires for over a month while they tried to get them fixed. After the buffing didn't look good, they opted to try having them re-dipped. That too didn't work. In the end, they replaced the 4 wheels with new ones and put new tires on them as well. He drove around on free-ugly wheels and tires for almost 5 months, but in the end, I truly thought they tried to do the right thing and just ended up trying to cheap out as the wheel were crazy overpriced factory large wheels.

Anyway, I'd say nothing wrong at all with replacing at least 2 tires. Not sure if I would be picky about doing all 4 on my own car, but if they've only got 5-10k left on them, I'd do all 4, especially if it were my wife's car.

Sandy.
 
plano-doug said:
It was the Firestone 500 - the 721 replaced it. That was back in the mid 70's - I was still riding bicycles at the time :)

When the Explorer issue came up a few years ago and Ford parted ways with Firestone, I was surprised folks kept buying their products. You'd think buyers would shy away after two such scandalous, deathly episodes.

Doug

.
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There have been 3 recalls of Firestone tires. The 500's, the 721's, and the Wilderness/ATX.

https://articles.nydailynews.com/20...ss-tires-firestone-tires-tire-related-crashes

As an ex-taxi owner I ran Goodyears on my cabs. Never had a problem with them.
 
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Yep, there's wheels in that photo.

I don't know how many states they are in now but in the SW, Discount Tire is the only place I buy new shoes for car, truck, trailer.
 
bobkrech said:
The laws of physics disagree about where new tires go on a front wheel drive car.


Bob
Click to expand...

The NHTSA, most insurance companies and just about all tire manufacturers will tell you to put them on the rear just as cobra1336 posted earlier - there is too much accident documentation otherwise. The ideal thing is to put 4 matched tires on the vehicle and rotate them regularly so that the tread depth stays roughly equal. The physics of front wheel drive are much more complex than RWD, but many of us are still stuck in RWD thinking.
 
Bazookadale said:
The NHTSA, most insurance companies and just about all tire manufacturers will tell you to put them on the rear just as cobra1336 posted earlier - there is too much accident documentation otherwise.
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Right, the fear is that the back end will break loose and somebody will have a bad wreck. OTOH, I can handle a loose situation much better than having the front end wash out on me. Plus, if I'm only getting two tires, knowing the fronts usually wear faster than the backs, I'm gonna want the new tires on the front and the older, more worn tires on the back, so that, after some time, the wear is more even.

As a result of the current tire store policy of new ones on the rear, I tend to usually rotate them (in my driveway) pretty soon afterward.

That is, if the tires they want to put on the front are so worn they're afraid to put them on the rear, then maybe they shouldn't be put back on the car at all :)

Doug

.
 
Wow. I can't believe the response to my question! Two pages of dialog, about something other than rockets or politics!!! Must be a TRF record!

Thanks so much for helping me out. I have an appointment tomorrow with my trusted shop to put two new tires on the thing and inspect the other two. I've done my own (layman) look-see and the tires are in good shape up there to my untrained eye. It will be about $380 for the appropriate pair of tires, with road handler warranty I think.

The shop I use is a Goodyear Gemini (maybe recently rebranded Tire Central and Service). I know the guys that work there; they know me. Consider this a shameless plug for the Gemini chain; I've been to three or four in several states over the last 15 years and all treated me well. Good folks. They get 100% of my service except the wife's routine oil change type stuff, due to proximity to her work.

Marc
 
plano-doug said:
... I remember the ads for them - 7 strands wrapped around 2 strands wrapped around 1 :)
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I can't believe I am going to post this.:blush: It just confirms that my wife is correct in calling me an uber dork, but here goes...

The ad was; 7 around 2 wrapped by 1.

The one was on the outside of the whole bundle.

It's kind of like remembering the phone number to Empire carpeting in Chicago after all those episodes of Bozo's Big Top.;)
 
clreynolds said:
I can't believe I am going to post this.:blush: It just confirms that my wife is correct in calling me an uber dork, but here goes...

The ad was; 7 around 2 wrapped by 1.

The one was on the outside of the whole bundle.
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Thanks, Curtis. It's only been ~35 years. At least I got the right three numbers ;)

Doug

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My wife sent me photos of some airless tires. Supposedly they will be available soon. this is a photo of the Michelin design.

111111.jpg
 
It's hard to tell from that picture, but it looks like there's not much tread left on those tires. Either way, with 30k on them, you'll be replacing them soon anyway. If you can swing it, I would replace all 4. I'm a big fan of even tread depth on all my tires.
 
bobkrech said:
You steer with the front wheels, you power with the front wheels, the front wheels are more highly loaded than the back wheels. That's where you need the traction.
Click to expand...

But the reason it's recommended to put the new tires on the rear of the car is not to keep traction, but the behavior of the car after you lose traction.

In a situation of cornering too fast, the question in a front wheel drive car is what happens when you start to lose traction, and what is the typical response of the typical driver.

Lets say the front wheels let go first for whatever reason. The car doesn't respond as well to steering inputs...it starts 'plowing'. In other words, classic understeer. What's the typical response of the driver...he usually takes his foot off the gas. This action by its very nature transfers more weight to the front tires, hopefully increasing friction and traction, canceling the understeer and regaining control. Applying the brake will do this more...and as long as the driver doesn't overdo it, he'll regain control.

Now, lets say the rear wheels let go first. The rear of the car will start arcing around the outside of the turn, the nose of the car turning farther inward...oversteering, but not due to excess power to the rear wheels. The typical driver will do exactly the wrong thing at this point...he will let off the gas, and may even apply the brake. Which only makes the situation worse as there is now less weight at the rear of the car, less traction as well, and now the car gets sideways and the driver does not know what to do.

The argument isn't which arrangement gives you better traction, its what gives you more predictable behavior after you lose traction.

FC
 
Fastcargo is exactly correct. Understeer is much easier to correct than oversteer for most drivers.

If you like to push the limits of handling, take a car control clinic and learn how to correct for oversteer and actually learn how to drive a car. You will have a blast.
 
On my way home from work yesterday, one of the run-flat tires on my 4-month-old Rav4 Sport sprung a leak. Limped to the dealer who told me it can't be repaired, it must be replaced. $362 dollars and an hour later, the only run-flat tire the dealer had in stock was installed. It would have been over $400 if I hadn't complained. Anyway, don't ever buy a car with run-flats! They're way overpriced, most garages aren't set up to service them and the ride is bumpy.
 
Tronman said:
On my way home from work yesterday, one of the run-flat tires on my 4-month-old Rav4 Sport sprung a leak. Limped to the dealer who told me it can't be repaired, it must be replaced. $362 dollars and an hour later, the only run-flat tire the dealer had in stock was installed. It would have been over $400 if I hadn't complained. Anyway, don't ever buy a car with run-flats! They're way overpriced, most garages aren't set up to service them and the ride is bumpy.
Click to expand...

Similarly my car has an unusually sized tire a shorter sidewall than typical. Not something I did, it was like that on the lot and if I had been thinking, I would have picked a different one. Anyway, having just gone over 250k miles, I've gone through my share of tires. With previous cars, I could feel if a tire was getting low, and as such if I had a leak, could pull over, put on the spare and take it in for repair. But these tires don't really feel any different when low, and barely feel different when flat. So too many times when I've realized I had a problem, the sidewall had already been damaged and it can't be fixed. I've called numerous places in two different cities (work and home), and no shop ever carries them in stock, so I can't ever just pull in and have a new one put on. I always have to have them order one and then take a vacation day because I'm not driving on a donut on the interstate for 50 miles.

Because of this, I've become obsessed with checking the air levels in the tires every time I get in the car.
 

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