Punisher 3 Wiggle

[user 30299]

@QFactor --

Very nice analysis !

It is a lot of fun to follow along in threads like these.

I always learn something

Do you mind posting your RocSim .RKT File ?

The .RKT file I downloaded from the Wildman Punisher3 Page has a few mass overrides, and the length is 49 inches instead of 48.75 inches.

Here is my RockSim file for the Punisher.

Somethings you need to know. Its component, component weights and component CGs are based
on my kit. I did not order anything special, so they are the components you would get if you bought
a new kit today.

The file you downloaded, from Wildman, was not entirely correct for components; nose cone, AvBay
sleeve, bulkheads, etc. I added/corrected those items when I did the initial dry-fit for the future build.

My file has the individual component masses, but uses the overall Mass and CG override on the simulations.
You would need to turn that off if you want to see what happens with the component masses and CGs.

My file is not a "polished & finished" file. It was put together to see what its overall flight envelope was
like for assorted motors.

 

[DHays]

Here's some extra info from the simulations.

I always start off with a fixed Drag Coefficient (Cd) of 0.60. I found that to be a good middle of the
road number when working with a new design or someone else's build. And I used an 8 ft. rail length.

• The H550 shows a max altitude of 1,529 ft., and a rail exit velocity of 106 ft./sec. In the ballpark for your actual launch of 1,400 ft.
• The J415 shows a max altitude of 6,705 ft., and a rail exit velocity of 77 ft./sec.
• The K550 shows a max altitude of 8,268 ft., and a rail exit velocity of 99 ft./sec.
• The K2050 shows a max altitude of 7,079 ft., and a rail exit velocity of 161 ft./sec. (don't blink when the LCO pushes the button)

Do you know the actual altitudes for your J415 and K550 launches?

Yes, I have some bits and pieces of my flights info that I keep in my note book. Now this is coming from my RRC2L.

H550 on the pad, 6lbs, 9.2oz. 5-10MPH winds. Overcast. Alt. 1,447' Velocity 310FPS. Flew nice and straight.

J415 didn't get the weight. 5-8 MPH winds. Clear and sunny. Alt. 8,501' Did not get the velocity. (I don't think that I can go back and retrieve the info in the RRC2L??) It just shows the last flight info.

K550 didn't get the weight. 5-8 MPH winds, same day flight as the J415. Clear and sunny. Alt. 10,972, which I was pleasantly surprised. Velocity 2,277 FPS. Now, that 2,277 FPS sounds kinda fast. I don't know if I believe it or not?? It has to be 1,277 FPS?? Must of been a glitch?

 

[DHays]

And, you should hope those fins are attached well.

Yes, no kidding. I have 6 fillets on each fin. 4 internal and the 2 external. Plus foamed between the fin roots. Fingers crossed! I used West System. Explains extra tail weight. But, I tried not to get carried away with using more than I needed.

 

[DHays]

I agree—definitely not a newby build. I have built several that will take a K2050, but my 5.5-inch Bertha did not. That is a lesson to always label your motors (if you assemble them at home) and that is a different story.

Yes! I agree. I started using masking tape to label them. Otherwise, oh no. Lol.

 

[DHays]

Yes, I have some bits and pieces of my flights info that I keep in my note book. Now this is coming from my RRC2L.

H550 on the pad, 6lbs, 9.2oz. 5-10MPH winds. Overcast. Alt. 1,447' Velocity 310FPS. Flew nice and straight.

J415 didn't get the weight. 5-8 MPH winds. Clear and sunny. Alt. 8,501' Did not get the velocity. (I don't think that I can go back and retrieve the info in the RRC2L??) It just shows the last flight info.

K550 didn't get the weight. 5-8 MPH winds, same day flight as the J415. Clear and sunny. Alt. 10,972, which I was pleasantly surprised. Velocity 2,277 FPS. Now, that 2,277 FPS sounds kinda fast. I don't know if I believe it or not?? It has to be 1,277 FPS?? Must of been a glitch?

 

[user 30299]

Yes, I have some bits and pieces of my flights info that I keep in my note book. Now this is coming from my RRC2L.

H550 on the pad, 6lbs, 9.2oz. 5-10MPH winds. Overcast. Alt. 1,447' Velocity 310FPS. Flew nice and straight.

J415 didn't get the weight. 5-8 MPH winds. Clear and sunny. Alt. 8,501' Did not get the velocity. (I don't think that I can go back and retrieve the info in the RRC2L??) It just shows the last flight info.

K550 didn't get the weight. 5-8 MPH winds, same day flight as the J415. Clear and sunny. Alt. 10,972, which I was pleasantly surprised. Velocity 2,277 FPS. Now, that 2,277 FPS sounds kinda fast. I don't know if I believe it or not?? It has to be 1,277 FPS?? Must of been a glitch?

I used my middle of the road Cd of 0.60 on those first sims. So I went and used 0.40, which is what I use on some of
the fiberglass sims. My fiberglass Cd varies from 0.32 to 0.40 depending on the component manufacturer - if you
don't paint/seal the body tube and nose cone.

The K550 comes up at 10,192 ft., and the J415 comes up 8,236 ft. The K2050 would put you at 8,888 ft.

We're in the ballpark.

Better get that K2050 ASAP! We need more data . . . . lol

 

[kjhambrick]

Here is my RockSim file for the Punisher.

<<snip>>

Thanks QFactor !

OpenRocket interpreted the finish on all the wetted components as 'Aircraft Sheet Metal' when I imported your file into OpenRocket.

This in turn, knocked the Static CD down to 0.52 and the altitudes were all higher -- about what @DHays recorded for each motor except the H550.

Note that I found the same when I imported the Wildman Punisher_3.RPT as well.

But I changed the finish to 'smooth paint' on my first sim above.

I left it that way for the sims below because they match @DHays' experience except for the H550.

@DHays --

A K700-W should give you a long, wonderful ride if the RMS 54/2560 will fit in the hole ( 13,900 ft and 1480 ft/sec )

And again, if it fits in the hole, an RMS 54/2800 L1090-W would be awesome !

Whee !

Thanks !

-- kjh

I added a streamer to sim a deployment sack at apogee and then popped the main at 700 ft in @QFactor's model.

A few more motors added to @QFactor's sim:

# Title     | Wildman Punisher 3 from QFactor
# Command   | /home/konrad/prj/app/dev/blueraven/tst/get-or-sims.sh -SA -T Wildman Punisher 3 from QFactor -D 3.1 in -L 49 in -o /home/tmp/Punisher_3-rev01-sum.txt /home/tmp/Punisher-3-rev01.ork
# Sorted by | Altitude
# RunDate   | Wed Nov 15 09:37:48 CST 2023
#
# Config       |      zMax |     vRail |      vMax |   GMax |      Mach |     tBurn |   tApogee |     tLand |     vLand | MotSize | Delay | SimName
  H550ST       |      1697 |      84.4 |     349.6 |  22.21 |      0.30 |       0.6 |      10.2 |      40.0 |      25.6 | 38x213  |  14.0 | H550-ST
  J415W        |      9177 |      87.2 |    1029.4 |  15.02 |      0.91 |       3.4 |      22.2 |      60.1 |      26.6 | 54x314  |  14.0 | J415-W
  K2050ST      |      9644 |     132.0 |    1246.3 |  61.34 |      1.08 |       0.8 |      21.8 |      60.0 |      27.9 | 54x383  |  none | K2050
  K550W        |     10824 |      99.2 |    1186.8 |  20.69 |      1.05 |       3.4 |      23.5 |      64.0 |      27.1 | 54x410  |  18.0 | K550
  K700W        |     13909 |     120.6 |    1481.4 |  23.45 |      1.32 |       3.6 |      25.9 |      74.9 |      27.8 | 54x568  |  none | K700-W
  K1050W       |     14811 |     135.9 |    1696.8 |  30.32 |      1.51 |       2.5 |      26.3 |      71.1 |      28.4 | 54x627  |  none | K1050-W
  L1090W       |     15688 |     129.6 |    1699.0 |  26.27 |      1.51 |       3.0 |      27.1 |      75.3 |      29.0 | 54x626  |  none | L1090-WP
#
# Rocket Name      = Wildman Punisher 3
#
# Diameter         = 3.1 in
# Length           = 49 in
# Dry Mass         = 2534 g
# CD               = 0.52
#
# Config From      = K550
# Site Latitude    = 30.617158375589348
# Site Longitude   = -97.49690197952224
# Site Altitude    = 643 ft
# Site Temperature = 75.0 F
# Site Pressure    = 998 mb
# Wind Speed       = 10 mph
# Speed of Sound   = 1132 ft/sec
#
# Rod Length       = 120 in
# Rod Angle        = 0.0 deg
#
# Command Line     = /home/konrad/prj/app/dev/blueraven/tst/get-or-sims.sh -SA -T Wildman Punisher 3 from QFactor -D 3.1 in -L 49 in -o /home/tmp/Punisher_3-rev01-sum.txt /home/tmp/Punisher-3-rev01.ork

 

[DHays]

I used my middle of the road Cd of 0.60 on those first sims. So I went and used 0.40, which is what I use on some of
the fiberglass sims. My fiberglass Cd varies from 0.32 to 0.40 depending on the component manufacturer - if you
don't paint/seal the body tube and nose cone.

The K550 comes up at 10,192 ft., and the J415 comes up 8,236 ft. The K2050 would put you at 8,888 ft.

We're in the ballpark.

Better get that K2050 ASAP! We need more data . . . . lol

I know....I know. Lol

 

[DHays]

Thanks QFactor !

OpenRocket interpreted the finish on all the wetted components as 'Aircraft Sheet Metal' when I imported your file into OpenRocket.

This in turn, knocked the Static CD down to 0.52 and the altitudes were all higher -- about what @DHays recorded for each motor except the H550.

Note that I found the same when I imported the Wildman Punisher_3.RPT as well.

But I changed the finish to 'smooth paint' on my first sim above.

I left it that way for the sims below because they match @DHays' experience except for the H550.

@DHays --

A K700-W should give you a long, wonderful ride if the RMS 54/2560 will fit in the hole ( 13,900 ft and 1480 ft/sec )

And again, if it fits in the hole, an RMS 54/2800 L1090-W would be awesome !

Whee !

Thanks !

-- kjh

I added a streamer to sim a deployment sack at apogee and then popped the main at 700 ft in @QFactor's model.

A few more motors added to @QFactor's sim:

# Title     | Wildman Punisher 3 from QFactor
# Command   | /home/konrad/prj/app/dev/blueraven/tst/get-or-sims.sh -SA -T Wildman Punisher 3 from QFactor -D 3.1 in -L 49 in -o /home/tmp/Punisher_3-rev01-sum.txt /home/tmp/Punisher-3-rev01.ork
# Sorted by | Altitude
# RunDate   | Wed Nov 15 09:37:48 CST 2023
#
# Config       |      zMax |     vRail |      vMax |   GMax |      Mach |     tBurn |   tApogee |     tLand |     vLand | MotSize | Delay | SimName
  H550ST       |      1697 |      84.4 |     349.6 |  22.21 |      0.30 |       0.6 |      10.2 |      40.0 |      25.6 | 38x213  |  14.0 | H550-ST
  J415W        |      9177 |      87.2 |    1029.4 |  15.02 |      0.91 |       3.4 |      22.2 |      60.1 |      26.6 | 54x314  |  14.0 | J415-W
  K2050ST      |      9644 |     132.0 |    1246.3 |  61.34 |      1.08 |       0.8 |      21.8 |      60.0 |      27.9 | 54x383  |  none | K2050
  K550W        |     10824 |      99.2 |    1186.8 |  20.69 |      1.05 |       3.4 |      23.5 |      64.0 |      27.1 | 54x410  |  18.0 | K550
  K700W        |     13909 |     120.6 |    1481.4 |  23.45 |      1.32 |       3.6 |      25.9 |      74.9 |      27.8 | 54x568  |  none | K700-W
  K1050W       |     14811 |     135.9 |    1696.8 |  30.32 |      1.51 |       2.5 |      26.3 |      71.1 |      28.4 | 54x627  |  none | K1050-W
  L1090W       |     15688 |     129.6 |    1699.0 |  26.27 |      1.51 |       3.0 |      27.1 |      75.3 |      29.0 | 54x626  |  none | L1090-WP
#
# Rocket Name      = Wildman Punisher 3
#
# Diameter         = 3.1 in
# Length           = 49 in
# Dry Mass         = 2534 g
# CD               = 0.52
#
# Config From      = K550
# Site Latitude    = 30.617158375589348
# Site Longitude   = -97.49690197952224
# Site Altitude    = 643 ft
# Site Temperature = 75.0 F
# Site Pressure    = 998 mb
# Wind Speed       = 10 mph
# Speed of Sound   = 1132 ft/sec
#
# Rod Length       = 120 in
# Rod Angle        = 0.0 deg
#
# Command Line     = /home/konrad/prj/app/dev/blueraven/tst/get-or-sims.sh -SA -T Wildman Punisher 3 from QFactor -D 3.1 in -L 49 in -o /home/tmp/Punisher_3-rev01-sum.txt /home/tmp/Punisher-3-rev01.ork

Definitely will consider it.