plastic model conversion pink book clarification needed

[cornyl]

Hi All,
Pink book states:

Plastic Model Conversion Competition comprises a single event open to model rockets that have been assembled from commercially available plastic model kits of guided missiles, rocket vehicles, space vehicles, or jets whose engines are in or spaced apart to the rear of the fuselage.

Here is my question.
When it states "commercially available" does that mean the model kit is still being produced by a plastic model manufacturer or does it mean you can use a kit that is out of production or both?

Thanks for your help!

Cornyl

 

[Micromeister]

Hi All,
Pink book states:


Here is my question.
When it states "commercially available" does that mean the model kit is still being produced by a plastic model manufacturer or does it mean you can use a kit that is out of production or both?

Thanks for your help!

Cornyl

Cornyl:
As long as the model your building is or Was manufactured "commerically" as a plastic model static kit, it'll be perfectly legal for Plastic Model Conversion. I've entered OOP PMC's for years dating back decades since they were last produced without ever having a single problem or even question.
I've seen some REALLY old OOP kit PMC's a Narams all are not only legal they are often welcome additions to the rather sparce offerings.
Be sure to include the Boxart or boxtop in your "data packet" for lack of a better term. I usually add a box end with the Cat number and sometimes the kit instruction sheet just for S&G's
Hope this helps.

 

[kjohnson]

John's right on the money. The rule about commercial availablity was added to stop folks from basically making a one-off plastic kit to use, not to say that it has to be still on the market.

kj

 

[cornyl]

Thanks, Micro&kjohnson
Thanks for your input.
Great I have some oldies to start with.
Adams Honest John 1960's
Revell Bomarc 1963
Airfix Vostoc 1975
Tough choices........
Thanks
Cornyl

 

[Micromeister]

Thanks, Micro&kjohnson
Thanks for your input.
Great I have some oldies to start with.
Adams Honest John 1960's
Revell Bomarc 1963
Airfix Vostoc 1975
Tough choices........
Thanks
Cornyl

Sure is:
I don't have the 60's Honest John. but do have a couple of the re-release Revell Bomarcs from the 80's. Converted one using the Launcher (with added rod) it's a very nice flyer. PS don't add smokers to the ramjets as I did...they melted from the heat Sorry no pics..I was just to upset!
Back in the day I did a Vostoc..not sure who's kit is was to be honest I think it was my second PMC ever.

 

[James Duffy]

The rule about commercial availablity was added to stop folks from basically making a one-off plastic kit to use

So, that would be wrong? Who would do that, anyway?

Oh, BTW: the 1/24 scale V-2 kit from Spacemonkey Models is now shipping. It is a static, non-flying kit, but should make an ideal PMC candidate. See:

https://www.spacemonkeymodels.com

James
_________________
James Duffy
[email protected]
www.rocket.aero
www.spacemonkeymodels.com

 

[roy_lappalainen]

I noticed in some of the documentation on PMC building referencing a 500 gram limit. Does this still exist? I was browsing the Pink Book and didn't see that referenced anywhere. Although, I could have missed it.

 

[cornyl]

I thought it was the 454g/16oz limit. But I could also be wrong.
I get confused with the mid power NAR/Tripoli weight limits.
And who can fly what?
Can NAR members fly Tripoli limits?
Not really sure.
Cornyl

 

[kjohnson]

So, that would be wrong? Who would do that, anyway?

FAI rules are different

kj

 

[kjohnson]

I noticed in some of the documentation on PMC building referencing a 500 gram limit. Does this still exist? I was browsing the Pink Book and didn't see that referenced anywhere. Although, I could have missed it.

Used to be a 500g limit but https://www.nar.org/pinkbook/9_Entries.html#9.11 now is at 1500g.

Ahh progress!


kj

 

[Gus]

Thanks, Micro&kjohnson
Thanks for your input.
Great I have some oldies to start with.
Adams Honest John 1960's
Revell Bomarc 1963
Airfix Vostoc 1975
Tough choices........
Thanks
Cornyl

Cornyl,

Those are great kits, fun to convert and fly, but be aware that if you are building for NAR PMC the rules are kind of goofy and rockets generally score way less than aircraft. You get all kinds of extra points for the little hangy-off doo-dads that get attached to airplane wings and usually aren't present on rockets. Also, the more ludicrously un-rocket-like the vehicle the more "difficulty" points you get. Very silly event but lots of fun to enter and watch.

James Duffy wrote a great intro to PMC you can read at https://ojames3.tripod.com/tccnarcontesttips/TCCAARGPMCDuffy.pdf

The TCC has great writeups on every NAR event and you can read the PMC writeup at https://ojames3.tripod.com/tccnarcontesttips/55PMC.html The link to the PMC Judging Form in the TCC writeup is not working but hopefully someone will take note and correct that. The judging forms for all the scale events are way more useful that the Pink Book for telling you what you need to know to score points.

Pic below is of my favorite PMC which is basically a non-contender in PMC competitions but is huge fun to fly.

Have fun,

Steve

 

[cornyl]

Gus,
I have never entered PMC before, so Naram PMC should be interesting.
I realize PMC is more of a craftsmanship event than a flying event but the obvious question is why would a rocket competition
give more points to non-rocket type PMC models?
That just does not make sense.
Besides I really just want to have a qualified flight as my PMC goal.
Cornyl

 

[Gus]

That just does not make sense.

Correct.

Actually, I think the real intent was to reward models which are more difficult to construct. Lots of doo-dads and almost-impossible-to-overcome unstable shapes get more points. But what it actually means is that a poorly built Tomcat will probably outscore a well-built Jupiter-C any day. Remember, it doesn't have to fly well, or even remotely resemble what a real model of that type would look like flying, it just has to have a stable flight (the pig just needs to dance, no extra points for dancing well :wink.

PMC is a lot like most NAR and FAI Scale events. It's as important to pick the right model to build as it is to build that model well. I'm still really confused as to most of the "Mission Points" rules and, unfortunately, they are not spelled out in the Pink Book. You really need to read the judges guide to begin to understand them, and even that doesn't explain everything. Many new participants find this really frustrating.

But if you go into the competition as an excuse to build something you probably wouldn't have tried otherwise, and you can make it work, it's definitely a win no matter how the competition turns out. And being there to watch the event is always huge fun.

Have a great time.

Steve

 

[Micromeister]

Gus,
I have never entered PMC before, so Naram PMC should be interesting.
I realize PMC is more of a craftsmanship event than a flying event but the obvious question is why would a rocket competition
give more points to non-rocket type PMC models?
That just does not make sense.
Besides I really just want to have a qualified flight as my PMC goal.
Cornyl

Cornyl:
Tech-Tip-009 Plastic Model conversion from the Library section at www.narhams.org web site has 16 pages of very helpful information on this event with lots of suggestions and observations that may be of help. Several of the pages give observations from both the judges and entrants perspective.
To be fair: Judges are not supposed to give more points to aircraft then Spacecraft Gus's observation is based on his observation of outcomes as he has seen it play out....I must agree there does "seem" to be a bent but it's more dew to degree of difficulty in making the conversion and detailing opportunities than Aircaft over Rocket/missile bias.
I tend to build models that I like rather then thinking about what the "judges" may like which usually gets me in trouble right off the top. but giving your best effort in conversion and construction regardless of which type model you decide on will make the whole project more then worth the work.....and you may find as I did another aspect of the hobby that really is a lot of fun to do.

Lets be honest; It's pretty darn simple to convert a straight tubular missile model for rocket flight where most winged aircraft takes a good bit more planning & inginuity Wheels Up or down, external weapons stores, and other external detailing is a good deal easier and much more plentiful on Aircraft then Rockets. Aircraft offer some skillful Detailing possibilities and a lot more "exposed Part" opportunity in cockpits, wheelwells etc then on most Rockets. PMC is afterall a Craftsmanship Event.
Hope this helps a little, the Tech-tip should also answer a lot of questions.

 

[JPVegh]

So my Batmobile conversion is definitely out? Dang! I guess I should scrap my Dukes of Hazard Dodge Charger then too. Man that was gonna be sweet.:fly:



:wink:

 

[Micromeister]

So my Batmobile conversion is definitely out? Dang! I guess I should scrap my Dukes of Hazard Dodge Charger then too. Man that was gonna be sweet.:fly:



:wink:

Neither of which could be flown in competition..as they are outside the perimeters set by the evert rules Jeff...but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be flown for fun...I've been looking for a not to expensive batmobile for awaile myself LOL!! The General Lee would just be toooo easy