Newbie to R/C, looking for pointers to get started.

[Gnomad]

I have been experimenting with rocket boost gliders for the past few weeks. I have a rather unorthodox design, but I have been able to successfully scale it from C-class motors up through F class. I am sure I can go quite further with the design, but random glide is no longer an option. As such, I am looking to get into R/C. I realize this is quite a leap, but all I am really looking to achieve (for now) is to make sure the rocket/plane lands somewhere within the launch field.

Does anyone have any pointers for someone just getting into R/C, but for someone who is looking to dive into a scratch-built experimental build?

I am thinking about getting the Spektrum DX6i w/ micro servos kit, and then finding a foamie glider kit suitable for the micro servos to learn some of the flight basics. Clearly I will need larger servos for my gliders, but I think I will only need two of them.

 

[TheAviator]

Does anyone have any pointers for someone just getting into R/C, but for someone who is looking to dive into a scratch-built experimental build?

I am thinking about getting the Spektrum DX6i w/ micro servos kit, and then finding a foamie glider kit suitable for the micro servos to learn some of the flight basics. Clearly I will need larger servos for my gliders, but I think I will only need two of them.

My advice is to go get a standard powered trainer. I learned on a GWS E-Starter, but I would sincerely suggest an E-Flight Alpha 450 or Parkzone Cub or Decathlon. If you want to start with a glider, my suggestion is an E-Flight Ascent 450 or a Parkzone Radian, which are both equipped with an electric motor for ascent. All of these are excellent aircraft. I would also suggest that you seek the help of an experienced R/C pilot. I am self-taught, but it was a tough road, not one I would recommend.

As to a transmitter, the DX6i is an excellent choice. Enough functions to do what you want and still decently cheap at $210 for the package. I have flown with a 4-ch Hitec Laser 4 72MHz (my cheapie starter), the DX6i, the DX7 (my current), my school design club's JR X9303 and old Futaba PCM 6-ch, and a friend's JR 12X. For a beginner, both the Hitec Laser 4 and the DX6i are adequate. The DX6i will give you more flexibility as you move up though, and gives you enough to do almost any rocket-glider with a little bit of fussing.

 

[ThreeJsDad]

Hitec has a pretty nice 2.4 radio with 2rx's for $200. It's the Optic 6. The Radian is a great starter glider. I have been flying in glider competitions for about 3 years and at almost every event a Radian or two come out when the days competition is over.

Paul

 

[JoeG]

Gnomad,

In order to effectively control the glider you need some R/C experience.

Whether you gain the experience with a simulator, a small electric airplane (trainer preferably), a glider, or a full blown 4 channel R/C nitro airplane is up to you.

If you are serious about only doing rocket/boost gliders in rocketry the expense does not have to be that great. The DX6i is a nice radio.

I'm using a Futaba 9CAP with the 2.4 module in my Aerotech Phoenix and it seems a little more radio than I need but it's what I use in my other airplanes.

Parkzone and E-Flite made some good trainers for electrics.

The Radian electric powered glider is an excellent choice and you could transfer the equipment into your glider when ready.

I also advise getting someone with experience to help you. Not someone who says they have experience but someone whom you have actually seen fly.

Sneak some time on the Hobby Shops flight simulator if you have one nearby. If you do this consider buying the equipment from them. They are helping you learn to fly.

A simulator purchase is a good investment. It keeps your flight skills sharp in between launches and it's fun. Yes, flight simulators are good learning tools and you can find some that are less expensive on the internet. Just remember that you get what you pay (or don't pay) for.

 

[ThreeJsDad]

There are some free simulators for gliders you can down load from different sources. Charles River RC has one I have on my computer. I bought an inexpensive 2 stick video game controller at Wally World that works very well.

I have taught many people to fly gliders sailplanes in a just a few minutes. Keep in simple, make smooth hand tosses into the wind and learn left and right. Then work on smooth up and down movements.

At the risk of offending power pilots who may be on here they very often don't have the feel for flying sailplanes. Yah they can fly them but they are accustomed to having a throttle to use as well. Flying an rc sailplane is move of a dance, the plane has to be a partner. They are accustomed to hitting the throttle if they miss a landing or are in trouble. Your boosted sailplane wont have that option.

Another good option is an Easy Glider Pro and a hill. Build it as a pure glider with no motor.

All of my kids fly and my son who is 10 has competed in a DLG contest. We have not had a power plane in the house in 4 years.

Gnomad, if you want to PM me I may have something I can send your way to get you started. I have two wings in the shop that I wont sell (seconds) and I am sure we can figure out a fuse.

Paul

 

[Gnomad]

There are some free simulators for gliders you can down load from different sources. Charles River RC has one I have on my computer. I bought an inexpensive 2 stick video game controller at Wally World that works very well.

Any other comments on this one? It runs nicely on my Mac, reports seem to indicate that it does very accurate simulation, and it seems as if I could even use the DX6i as a controller through the mic input. Failing that, $30 will get me a dedicated 6-channel radio simulator. It doesn't seem to recognize the left-right arrow keys and the trackpad just doesn't cut it. I'm not a gamer, and I haven't had a joystick since my Apple ][. I might just pop over to wally world tomorrow (I can practically walk there) to see what they have in stock...

 

[JoeG]

Using the arrow keys or trackpad will not really let you learn much. You need a similar controller with proportional control input to "simulate" the actual flight.

The ideal thing would be to use the transmitter on the sim that you are going to use in flight.

The biggest obstacles to overcome are over controlling and control reversal.

On a proportional system the control surface moves proportionately with the stick movement. Gently moving the stick from neutral results in smooth flying while full stick movement is reserved for all out aerobatics.

Control reversal is actually not staying oriented with the model. As it is flying away from you a left turn is accomplished by a slight movement of the rudder or aileron stick to the left, usually with a small amount of up elevator to keep from losing altitude. When the model is flying toward you the elevator is the same but the ailerons/rudder "seem" backwards. To perform a left turn as the model is approaching you is exactly the same except the model with move to the right relative to your position.

This is part of what you are trying to overcome with the sim.

Good luck!!

 

[Gnomad]

Yup, I am familiar with these issues in R/C control. I stumbled across two of the local R/C clubs while hiking in years past. About three years ago, I struck up a conversation with a guy who likes to teach newbies, and he put me on the buddy box with the only plane he had out -- a high-performance acrobatic one. Needless to say, it was a rather harsh introduction to R/C.

If I understand correctly, the current crop of digital controllers can be easily configured to re-map the controls such that a large stick movement will translate into little change in control surface movement, thus making the nature for extreme overcompensation less of an issue. I suppose this could lead to bad habits, but awareness should make this a non-issue.

I agree on the control issue. The combination of CRRC with the actual DX6i *could* be the ideal way to learn. However, the only information I have found on how this works, and how well it works, is sketchy at best.

 

[ThreeJsDad]

I am not a stand by the company (meaning old school) line. There are a bunch of modern very high performance sailplanes that don't even have rudders. To me the AMA idea of teaching someone to fly and needing an AMA instructor is a joke if the person is planning to fly just sailplanes.

RC Sailplanes are flown by feel and we constantly adjust our input based on the planes reaction. I don't care about how much stick movement is involved, I am not measuring that while I am flying, I watching my plane and seeing how it reacts.

My little Wally World controller did a lot to teach me how to turn smoothly when I used the simulator. That little piece of software has a great slope sight that helped me a great deal with energy management.

Here is a link to me playing with one of my DLG's in the yard. Not the smoothest of flights but for a prototype it does okay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaTC6cdJMDg

Paul

 

[MrGneissGuy]

I have a trial membership to the AMA, since I live about 15 minutes away from their headquarters I figured I'd give it a try. I've been on their forums and other RC forums, and frankly, I learned more about RC flying a couple weekends ago going into the hobby shop next door to the AMA headquarters flying field. I walk in 5 minutes before closing to pick up an Estes Trans Wing that they had, and ended up being there for an hour talking to another customer and the guy working there. And it wasn't me keeping them there late...I liked to never got the guy to ring up my rocket. I learned a ton that evening. I still don't know enough to spend $350 on a radio, or anything like that. But they showed me a sim they had set up, talked to me about different types of gliders, pointed out a couple of kits that would work well for a beginner, as well as the wallet (relatively speaking), and were very nice all the way around.

I too have been toying with the idea of adding RC to a boost glider to guide it down where I want it to land. I should have the Trans Wing done soon (it's my daughter's and she's supposed to be helping), and I'll see how that works without RC control. Then I might have to head back to that shop and do a little more formal research on things.

 

[ThreeJsDad]

I Love to hear stories like this. My LHS is just like what you described! hey have been great to me even though I buy very little (I build for a living) from them except servos. On my servos they order in what I want no questions asked. They even call me when someone has a glider question.

On a radio, I just sold my two JR 7202's for $100. They are perfect for sailplanes but I have another radio I need to learn and as long as I had those I wasn't going to take the time. My point is look for a used JR 7202 or 8103, they both can handle any sailplane you will ever want to fly on a boost. I was actually using the 7202's in competition.

Paul

 

[JoeG]

Yup, I am familiar with these issues in R/C control. I stumbled across two of the local R/C clubs while hiking in years past. About three years ago, I struck up a conversation with a guy who likes to teach newbies, and he put me on the buddy box with the only plane he had out -- a high-performance acrobatic one. Needless to say, it was a rather harsh introduction to R/C.

If I understand correctly, the current crop of digital controllers can be easily configured to re-map the controls such that a large stick movement will translate into little change in control surface movement, thus making the nature for extreme overcompensation less of an issue. I suppose this could lead to bad habits, but awareness should make this a non-issue.

I agree on the control issue. The combination of CRRC with the actual DX6i *could* be the ideal way to learn. However, the only information I have found on how this works, and how well it works, is sketchy at best.

I'm glad you have a good experience with the local club. Not all are as lucky. Even though you had a baptism by fire it helped you to understand what you need to overcome.

Most newer radios do have a lot of features. You can add exponential throws to allow the stick to give very little control movement around neutral and still have full throw when you bang the stick to it's extreme. The over controlling is something that usually goes away very quickly. Back in the old days, when there were no simulators or computer radios and no one to help you, over controlling could cost you a model. This really stretched out the learning curve since there were no ARF(Almost ready to Fly) airplanes either and you had to go home and actually rebuild your airplane. Now with simulators, computer radios, and buddy boxes and experienced people nearby, it really shouldn't.

Sure you can learn on your own but it's easier with help and you may recruit some folks into rocketry.

I am not saying you need to get an AMA instructor but someone with some experience can save you a lot of time and money if they keep you from crashing your plane. Gliders are an excellent way to start. They generally fly slowly and react predictably.

Not all gliders are slow though. Check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi0hrjqU15I

 

[Gnomad]

Most newer radios do have a lot of features. You can add exponential throws to allow the stick to give very little control movement around neutral and still have full throw when you bang the stick to it's extreme. The over controlling is something that usually goes away very quickly. Back in the old days, when there were no simulators or computer radios and no one to help you, over controlling could cost you a model. This really stretched out the learning curve since there were no ARF(Almost ready to Fly) airplanes either and you had to go home and actually rebuild your airplane. Now with simulators, computer radios, and buddy boxes and experienced people nearby, it really shouldn't.

I always wanted to do R/C when I was a teenager (mid '80s) and the hobby was well out of my price range. Every now and again I have been touching back in, and every time I am amazed at the progression of technology, and at the same time, the reduction in price.

Not all gliders are slow though. Check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi0hrjqU15I

Wow. I have not words.

 

[ThreeJsDad]

I believe Joe Manor is now over 400mph. Those guys who do dynamic soaring are not exactly wired right.....

Paul