hybrid ground support equipment

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Mariner

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Been out of rocketry for over a year due to work and a shoulder injury. I am wanting to get into hybrids and was wondering if someone could point me towards a set of plans to build my own ground support and launch equipment. I know very little about hybrids as the club I was launching with does not have the equipment to support them. I have access to probably everything needed to make my set up, just don't know what is needed or how to put it all together.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
 
No diagram, but you need two solenoids -- fill and dump. You need to then build a manifold that goes from the bottle through the fill solenoid and into the motor. You need a T off of the section in between the fill solenoid and the motor that's your dump solenoid.

So, it's basically: Nitrous bottle -> Fill solenoid -> (T fitting to motor fill connector and dump solenoid)

You really want a relay controller, so that the battery for the solenoids is out near the pad, or on a warm day, your solenoids won't cooperate and will be difficult to get the fill solenoid to open under pressure.

-Kevin
 
SkyRipper has some great documentation for monotube hybrids-
https://www.skyrippersystems.com/documents/index.html

Pratt has a good 'getting started' article describing the various
types of hybrids and the GSE needed for each.

https://www.pratthobbies.com/info_pages/getting_started.htm
https://www.pratthobbies.com/info_pages/hybrids.htm

If you're looking to get into HyperTek, BackYard Ballistics has
some GSE details/plans here-
https://www.privatedata.com/byb/rocketry/hybrid_gse/index.html

HTH!
 
I recommend the solenoids that Pratt hobbies sells, you don't need a solenoid saver, keep in mind if you decide to use automotive solenoids, you will need a solenoid saver circuit. A toggle switch for the fill control is a good idea, to avoid sore fingers on long fills. The Hypertek setup uses Double j boxes with standard 15 amp 120 volt receptacles, this is a very simple way to hook everything up, and you can fit the necessary relays in there too: that's how i did it. You can connect your control box to the system with cat 5 cable. Have you decided on what brand of motor you want yet?


Jeremy
 
Thanks for the information so far. I have not decided on an engine yet, although I have been looking at the differant manufacturers that I can find on the internet. Do you need a special type of 24 volt solenoid or can I use a regular asco red hat. We have lots of spare asco valves on the ship and I could easily snag a few of the spares to build my setup. Also I am not sure what the saver circuit is for. The red hats on the ship stay energized for long periods of time depending on what piece of machinery it is being used on and they last for years usually.
 
The voltage required for the solenoid doesn't matter, as far as rocketry goes. Where it does matter is convenience, for you -- car batteries are common for clubs for powering launch equipment, so designing things around their 12V simplifies your life dramatically.

-Kevin
 
Another good resource is Black Dog Rocketry. Ron McGough from Black Dog https://www.blkdgrkty.com/ supports Rattworks, Sky Ripper and Hypertek plus he has complete GSE plus components if you want to build your own.

The circuit saver helps keep from burning out the solenoid. Most of the solenoids are not designed to be continuously energized. The solenoid saver makes sure the solenoid activates but doesn't allow it to burn out. Again, Ron from Black Dog can explain this better.

Where are you located? Seeing a hybrid being set up and launched would help tremendously. I could teach someone to swim over the internet, but being in the pool sure makes it easy to explain things.
 
I am from Central tennessee, and normally launch with MC2. Unfortunately I was injured at work in April of 2009 and had to have shoulder surgery. The last launch I was at was the April 2009 launch with them. Working on a cargo ship doesn't give much time to enjoy rocketry, but I do manage to get to a couple of launches every year. i may try to get to a launch at the end of the year up north or in one of the surrounding states. i would really like to help set up a couple of hybrids as I agree that doing is the best way to learn.

The solenoids we use in the engine room are designed to stay energized for long periods of time, in some cases months at a time. So they may work out well for this.
 
Sorry to hear about the injury. Glad to hear you seem to be coming back from it.

What are the solenoids used for on ship?

You should probably avoid recycling any hardware that has been used with "fuel like" compounds. When Doug Pratt sells stuff he makes sure it is "Oxygen cleaned" to avoid any unfortunate reactions between the high pressure Nitrous and any residues or seals.

Hopefully Bob will chime in soon as he's a fount of lab safety advice...
 
We use the solenoids for everything from air systems to fuel systems. The chief won't have a problem with me grabbing a few of the new spares as we don't have to replace them very often so we have quite a few new in the box spares in the parts lockers.
 
Mariner said:
We use the solenoids for everything from air systems to fuel systems. The chief won't have a problem with me grabbing a few of the new spares as we don't have to replace them very often so we have quite a few new in the box spares in the parts lockers.
Click to expand...

You'll still need to be careful as "new spares" may have seals sensitive to oxidizers and may have greases that are also incompatible.
 
Will raises a good point.

Nothing that has petroleum-based solvents, cleaners, greases, seals, etc should be used. The results can be....unpleasant....when exposed to a strong oxidizer.

-Kevin
 
They also need to be high pressure solenoids, they should be rated for at least 2000 psi, that will give you a good safety margin under most conditions. Operating pressure can be as high as 900 psi. Different motors have different ground support requirements; for example, Hypertek motors require a special fill stem, an oxygen tank, regulator, solenoid, and a high voltage transformer. Meeting the Hypertek requirements can cost you an extra 300 to 500 dollars more than normal hybrid ground support.

Jeremy
 
Aerocon has some very nice solenoids at a good price. I use aerocon solenoids myself. I also use prestolock fittings and nylon tubing from the solenoid to the motor. I use relays as well and keep the power source by the launch pad. I believe Black Dog Rocketry makes a system that is relay based. If you don't want to build your on system then BDR makes a very nice system.
 
Last edited:
Jclark said:
They also need to be high pressure solenoids, they should be rated for at least 2000 psi, that will give you a good safety margin under most conditions. Operating pressure can be as high as 900 psi. Different motors have different ground support requirements; for example, Hypertek motors require a special fill stem, an oxygen tank, regulator, solenoid, and a high voltage transformer. Meeting the Hypertek requirements can cost you an extra 300 to 500 dollars more than normal hybrid ground support.

Jeremy
Click to expand...

OOPs wasn't thinking of the pressure rating. The only high pressure solenoids we have would be for the propeller pitch system, which would be set up for hydraulic use. guess I will be buying a couple after all.:confused:
 
Mariner said:
OOPs wasn't thinking of the pressure rating. The only high pressure solenoids we have would be for the propeller pitch system, which would be set up for hydraulic use. guess I will be buying a couple after all.
Click to expand...
Then I'll second the recommendation for the Pratt BFV unit.
https://www.pratthobbies.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BFV

NEFAR upgraded to this (replacing a NOS automotive solenoid) about
a year and a half ago. Absolutely the best! And no more problems
filling.
 
Just my opinion but this doesn't seem to be the place to cut corners. Unless you use a car "remote bottle opener" you're going to be standing right next to your GSE with your hand on plumbing that's going from one atmosphere to hundreds of PSI and the fluid is a potential monopropellant. If that doesn't give you a bit of a queasy feeling in the pit of your stomach then I submit that you might be in the wrong hobby...

I too have a set of the Pratt valves and they work as advertised.
 
I agree with you in that you definately would not want to cut corners where safety is involved, but I am of the opinion that as long as you follow guidelines for safe handling of N2O and you have an appreciation of the dangers associated with it (not only it's ability to decompose), then a "roll your own" hybrid GSE setup need not be any more dangerous than a commercially avaliable alternative.
 
Last edited:
ROCKet STAR said:
I agree with you in that you definately would not want to cut corners where safety is involved, but I am of the opinion that as long as you follow guidelines for safe handling of N2O and you have an appreciation of the dangers associated with it (not only it's ability to decompose), then a "roll your own" hybrid GSE setup need not be any more dangerous than a commercially avaliable alternative.
Click to expand...

I agree. Even professionals can have issues with nitrous. Let's just be careful out there, please...
 
I used Pratt solenoids on my GSE, they work very well and don't have the overheating issues you get with automotive units. The BFV fills nice and fast, and I got the cheap econo one for the dump.

Now if my fill tube had let go properly and not taken said GSE for a ride, that would be nice. But that might have been user error. Skyripper 54mm K, was ummm... interesting... to see it take half the manifold (broke a fitting near the bottle) and the electronics with it to about 50ft and hover there till burnout.

Again, be careful out there guys! :)
 
Hm, never had anything like that happen, and i wouldn't want to. I have noticed whenever i fly my Contrail L2525 the push loc fittings seem to take a beating. Seems like it would be a good idea to strap the fill line to the pad, and maybe even install a break away fitting on the line.

Jeremy
 
Jclark said:
Hm, never had anything like that happen, and i wouldn't want to. I have noticed whenever i fly my Contrail L2525 the push loc fittings seem to take a beating. Seems like it would be a good idea to strap the fill line to the pad, and maybe even install a break away fitting on the line.

Jeremy
Click to expand...


I'd prefer it never happen again. I plan to connect the fill line somehow to the pad frame, we use heavy tripods for HPR, so it should help keep things from flying away. Some kind of break-away fitting would be a good idea, any suggestions for something oxygen safe that can handle the pressure but still detach in a case like this?

I've even thought about a large stake driven into the ground to anchor the line to. Not sure if that would be practical, or help though.
 
I suggest you take a look at McMaster-Carr part number 7877K55. I think it's around $25 and, assuming you can solder on your own electrical connector, it has the right specifications.

John at Transolve Inc. modified a Minifire to handle the longest possible fill time on an M hybrid on a hot day. Might say it has a 100% duty cycle. It is a wireless remote control, fill, fire/O2, and, dump/continuity with beeper. It has a small device like a garage door opener to control the base stations with 3 channels. It is good for 800', and more distance with the base station up off the ground 4'. The base station has an on/off key for safety. It can also launch 3 AP rockets, each separately. Only 3, 8' wires are going to the launcher/solenoids, and one short one to connect the battery. No long rolls of wire to play out, or huge automotive battery. I am using a small sealed, lead acid Harley motorcycle battery. I have tested the battery/Minifire and can get 10 launches on a hybrid...maybe more! I have fired a 29mm Sky Ripper with it, and am very pleased with the product. www.transolve.com
 
Last edited:
dan winter said:
I suggest you take a look at McMaster-Carr part number 7877K55. I think it's around $25 and, assuming you can solder on your own electrical connector, it has the right specifications.

John at Transolve Inc. modified a Minifire to handle the longest possible fill time on an M hybrid on a hot day. Might say it has a 100% duty cycle. It is a wireless remote control, fill, fire/O2, and, dump/continuity with beeper. It has a small device like a garage door opener to control the base stations with 3 channels. It is good for 800', and more distance with the base station up off the ground 4'. The base station has an on/off key for safety. It can also launch 3 AP rockets, each separately. Only 3, 8' wires are going to the launcher/solenoids, and one short one to connect the battery. No long rolls of wire to play out, or huge automotive battery. I am using a small sealed, lead acid Harley motorcycle battery. I have tested the battery/Minifire and can get 10 launches on a hybrid...maybe more! I have fired a 29mm Sky Ripper with it, and am very pleased with the product. www.transolve.com
Click to expand...

That solenoid is rated for a max of 100 psi. nitrous oxide is at 650 psi on the low end. i would not use a solenoid rated for any less than 1500 psi, and 2000 psi rating would give you a good safety margin.

Jeremy
 

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