F-1 Injector Plate

[GregGleason]

For you F-1 fanboys ("Why, yes I am!"), here is a link that you might find interesting:


https://heroicrelics.org/info/f-1/f-1-injector.html


The F-1 injector plate was one of the most necessary developments of the Saturn V program, for without it the performance of Boeing's S-IC first stage (let alone man-rating) would have been in question. The personnel at Rocketdyne worked long and hard to adequately solve the problem of combustion instability.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocketdyne_F-1

During seven years of development, F-1 tests revealed serious combustion instability problems which sometimes caused catastrophic failure.^[4] Initially, progress on this problem was slow, as it was intermittent and unpredictable. Oscillations of 4 kHz with harmonics to 24 kHz were observed. Eventually, engineers developed a technique of detonating small explosive charges (which they called "bombs") outside the combustion chamber, through a tangential tube (RDX, C4 or black powder were used) while the engine was firing. This allowed them to determine exactly how the running chamber responded to variations in pressure, and to determine how to nullify these oscillations. The designers could then quickly experiment with different co-axial fuel-injector designs to obtain the one most resistant to instability. These problems were addressed from 1959 through 1961. Eventually, engine combustion was so stable, it would self-damp artificially induced instability within 1/10 of a second.

Greg

 

[rocketguy101]

oh, that is cool! I have read several accounts about this development, and it has fascinated me it was done with slide rules, analog data acquisition, and good ol' fashioned testing. The idea of using "the bomb" was truly inspiring. A recent new member of our club brought in some memorabilia from his parents who both worked for Rocketdyne on the F-1. His dad was an engineer working on the engine bells and his mother was a tech writer.

 

[troj]

If I remember right, this book is the one I have, which does a great job of explaining what all they went through to make that monster work.

-Kevin

 

[cvanc]

Thanks so much for posting this - fascinating stuff!

 

[Maxx Mayhem]

Looking at the injector plate, you will notice that there are a number of dividers separating the injectors in to sections. Those dividers are actually baffles, whose purpose is to remediate the oscillation that was causing much of the instability problem.

 

[freddiejojo]

Thank you so much for posting this information. Please post more at your convenience. It saddens me to see how we have regressed as a country and society from this high-point.

Kent/GLR

 

[troj]

If I remember right, this book is the one I have, which does a great job of explaining what all they went through to make that monster work.

Yep, I confirmed that's the book I've got.

Very interesting reading!

-Kevin

 

[jd2cylman]

If I remember right, this book is the one I have, which does a great job of explaining what all they went through to make that monster work.

-Kevin[/QUOTE

I thought this was how the Saturn V worked:http:xkcd.com/1133/
Thanks to Troj for introducing me to this site.

Adrian

 

[rocketguy101]

If I remember right, this book is the one I have, which does a great job of explaining what all they went through to make that monster work.

-Kevin

The first I ever read of the instability problem and solution was in "Apollo" by Charles Murray and Catherine Bly Cox...the book goes in and out of print. If you get a chance to buy it, do so! It is wonderful. The book Troj references is great too.

 

[MaxQ]

That injector was mentioned in the series Moon Machines...that and many other problems overcome in the Saturn V design.
I liked the part about how California surfers contributed to the solution to insulating the cryogenic fuel tanks......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB-jdTPLdKA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ichh5Wd5TDg

 

[troj]

I thought this was how the Saturn V worked:http:xkcd.com/1133/
Thanks to Troj for introducing me to this site.

Up Goer Five, a classic!

I have it framed on the wall next to me -- $15 poster, over $300 in framing. Worth every penny!

-Kevin

 

[NJRick]

Greg....what a great find...every time I read this stuff it just makes me take a pause and realize just how bright these guys were....this was all done in the day of slide rules, skinny ties and pocket protectors. There was great episode on Moon Machines about the F-1 project manager....I mean he was given control of the F-1 program...he was a kid.....in his 30's or something.

I wish I could find the picture that puts this in prospective...but somewhere a guy posted pictures on this Forum of paper model rockets he had made and he had the Mercury Redstone next to the Saturn 5...same scale...and the sheer volume of the Saturn 5 compared to the Redstone...it was unbelievable ...I mean..you can just see not only the huge leap in design and performance...but the damn genius behind it.....great find!! Thanks for posting

For you F-1 fanboys ("Why, yes I am!"), here is a link that you might find interesting:


https://heroicrelics.org/info/f-1/f-1-injector.html


The F-1 injector plate was one of the most necessary developments of the Saturn V program, for without it the performance of Boeing's S-IC first stage (let alone man-rating) would have been in question. The personnel at Rocketdyne worked long and hard to adequately solve the problem of combustion instability.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocketdyne_F-1



Greg

 

[MaxQ]

Greg....what a great find...every time I read this stuff it just makes me take a pause and realize just how bright these guys were....this was all done in the day of slide rules, skinny ties and pocket protectors. There was great episode on Moon Machines about the F-1 project manager....I mean he was given control of the F-1 program...he was a kid.....in his 30's or something.

I wish I could find the picture that puts this in prospective...but somewhere a guy posted pictures on this Forum of paper model rockets he had made and he had the Mercury Redstone next to the Saturn 5...same scale...and the sheer volume of the Saturn 5 compared to the Redstone...it was unbelievable ...I mean..you can just see not only the huge leap in design and performance...but the damn genius behind it.....great find!! Thanks for posting

That would be Sonny Morea...see him at 10:30 into this vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh5YIyqmt2Y

 

[Winston]

If I remember right, this book is the one I have, which does a great job of explaining what all they went through to make that monster work.

-Kevin

Looks like it's inter-library loan time again. That looks like a neat book.

 

[Winston]

These Apollo Program quarterly progress reports are also fascinating and illustrate what a gigantic effort this was. There are many on YouTube:

[video=youtube_share;CoN5q59Nn-M]https://youtu.be/CoN5q59Nn-M[/video]

and on the great DVD set, "The Mighty Saturns: Saturn V":

https://www.spacecraftfilms.com/themightysaturnssaturnv.aspx