Estes Terrier-Sandhawk

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One of my abolute favorite scale models of all time. Hard to explain why, but it is just such a cool looking rocket. You did a great job with the scale details. Also, that Nike Hercules in the background! Another favorite!


Tony
 
Yes!! I've always wanted to see this one released again! The Sandhawk launched alone on a D12-5 really gets up there and the full stack goes high too on D12s. I'm hoping to launch again the full stack on E20s soon now that I have a setup to get I phone launch pics. I'm always so leery of launches since it's such a rare Estes model. There is a quirky history of my building the Terrier booster in that there was a live video of cops chasing a white Bronco in southern California as I was building the booster! :rolleyes:
 
Is that a two stage kit?
If not; has anybody attempted . . . successfully, to build it as a two stage rocket?
 
boomtube-mk2 said:
Is that a two stage kit?
If not; has anybody attempted . . . successfully, to build it as a two stage rocket?
Click to expand...
It would be kind of difficult... I'm not saying impossible, but difficult. It's a bit too far for gap staging (from the information I've read on the topic). So, you'd likely need electronics to fire the upper stage, then there's the whole recovery of the booster issue, as well as not damaging your transition so you could repeat the process. One thing that would be interesting is if the upper stage could have a piston launcher somehow incorporated into it. No matter what, a lot of careful thought would need to go into it, and I wouldn't recommend it for an original Estes kit... A clone, sure, but the original kits are a bit pricy for something so risky.
 
Is it too far for gap staging? I've read about some gaps in the double digit range inches wise.

But recovering the booster would be problematic at best.
 
boomtube-mk2 said:
Well, it was a nice dream while it lasted.
Click to expand...
Again, I'm not saying it can't be done, but with gap staging, I'd want to find a better way.

Personally, I've thought of this myself (back in the 90s when I bought my pair of T/S kits). I wondered if there was a way of running the engine mount of the Sandhawk deep inside the Terrier to reduce the distance needed for staging. However, I couldn't figure out how I wouldn't destroy the guts of the Terrier when the Sandhawk ignited. Part of the problem I also thought of was how would you not pressurize the Sandhawk when the motor mount slides up inside to its final location (thus blowing the nosecone off prematurely). It would require some serious venting that gets sealed off when the motor's tube finally hit home.

With electronic ignition, you could run a channel (or two) inside the Sandhawk that would have your wires run from the payload/nosecone section, but making them secure enough to stay put during the boost phase, but releasable when the ejection charge fires is the challenge there. You want to make sure your wires would separate so you don't F-up your parachute's deployment. Also, in the event of a failed ignition, you'd also likely want a dual deployment arrangement JIC.
 
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Just thought of another idea... instead of wires, metal tape run inside the Sandhawk, with contacts on the shoulder of the payload section. Managing the contacts with the igniter would be a bit of a challenge, but not impossible. The issue would be maintaining good continuity.

That said, still the nosecone's hooks are annoyingly weak, and repeated attaching and detaching of it did in my stock builds. If I could, I'd like to turn a new payload section (out of a fine grained wood, plastic, or machinable foam (like Adam Savage does) along with the nosecone, then cast it in a material like polyurethane, and use that. No annoying lengthwise seam lines to deal with, and much finer (engraved) detail seam lines are possible.
 
boomtube-mk2 said:
"I bought the kit for $30 then spent $200 making it two stage."
Click to expand...

And this is a problem?

Since I've got a Terrier booster from my Terrier Improved Malemute build, I've been eyeing this thread and thinking I might need to build a Sandhawk for it. Matching scale puts the Sandhawk at BT80 - easily big enough for electronics. And it would just be an interstage away from a Sandia Dualhawk - Sandhawk to Tomahawk two stage. I was planning a Black Brant for the next sustainer - but I'm thinking winter is long enough for several builds.
 
brockrwood said:
According to this website, the real Terrier-Sandhawk has a maximum altitude of 427 km (265 miles). Can't this sounding rocket actually put a payload into orbit if it can get that high up?
Click to expand...
It takes a lot more energy to put something into orbit than it does to put something into space briefly and down again.
 
kuririn said:
Branson isn't even reaching the Karman line.
Click to expand...

That's for sure. Still, I like the idea of the air-launched "spaceship", a la Virgin Galactic's "Spaceship 2" and the old, venerable, X-15 rocket plane.

It seems to make sense: You make a really big, high-flying, but still air-breathing aircraft. Then you launch or drop a rocket powered "spaceship" from the aircraft. Maybe the spaceship is both "scramjet" and "rocket" craft, or some sort of hybrid. Wouldn't that be the most economical, most elegant way to get into space? Here we are in 2021, 60 years after Yuri Gagarin became the first human in space, and we are still, basically, doing this the same way: We point a large, chemically fueled rocket at the sky and then we light that roman candle. Then the rocket goes (essentially) straight up, vertically, against the gravity well of Earth, expending enormous amounts of fuel in the process. Ultimately, a fairly small payload on the top of the rocket gets into space.

I love rockets! I am a BAR model rocketeer. But as a space enthusiast, I think we (we being humanity) need a more elegant way to get into space. Space elevator? Some sort of rail run that magnetically hurls a payload into space? An air-launched spaceship? A horizontal take off craft that begins as an air-breathing jet airplane, turns into some sort of hybrid jet/rocket craft at some point, and then finally becomes a pure rocket craft that enters space?
 
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brockrwood said:
That's for sure. Still, I like the idea of the air-launched "spaceship", a la Virgin Galactic's "Spaceship 2" and the old, venerable, X-15 rocket plane.

It seems to make sense: You make a really big, high-flying, but still air-breathing aircraft. Then you launch or drop a rocket powered "spaceship" from the aircraft. Maybe the spaceship is both "scramjet" and "rocket" craft, or some sort of hybrid. Wouldn't that be the most economical, most elegant way to get into space? Here we are in 2021, 60 years after Yuri Gagarin became the first human in space, and we are still, basically, doing this the same way: We point a large, chemically fueled rocket at the sky and then we light that roman candle. Then the rocket goes (essentially) straight up, vertically, against the gravity well of Earth, expending enormous amounts of fuel in the process. Ultimately, a fairly small payload on the top of the rocket gets into space.

I love rockets! I am a BAR model rocketeer. But as a space enthusiast, I think we (we being humanity) need a more elegant way to get into space. Space elevator? Some sort of rail run that magnetically hurls a payload into space? An air-launched spaceship? A horizontal take off craft that begins as an air-breathing jet airplane, turns into some sort of hybrid jet/rocket craft at some point, and then finally becomes a pure rocket craft that enters space?
Click to expand...
Virgin Orbit
 
I just ordered tubing to make a Sandhawk for my Terrier booster. It will be slightly off scale - my Terrier interstage is made for BT80. So 2.6" instead of the 2.5" that would match scale more precisely.

It's going to be a tall rocket.
 
I had bought a Terrier Sandhawk kit from someone a few years back but the plastic body bits were so warped, they were unusable. I wish someone would do one for 3D printing.
 

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