Connecting Ejection Charges.

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BLKKROW

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Just a thought, I am redesigning and rebuilding my Blackhawk rocket, dubbed Type II.

I want to redo my AV-Bay, I do not want to use terminal blocks as they will not fit to well on a 38mm bulk plate.

I was thinking of just the good old twist and tape method. To me this method is the most simple and also reliable. I just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with this, in high velocity flights.

Plus this would make it nice and simple with a hole for the wires in the bulk plate which would be glued to create a seal, and the wires would come straight from Altimeter/Common Positive lead.

If this is a stupid idea please let me know.
 
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I wouldn't worry so much about the connection; the bigger issue is mechanically anchoring the charges. You're not attempting any 100+G flights, are you? If the charge wants to move, no matter what connection you use something is going to snap.

(this is what I learned from Disappearing Act's 220-G final flight).

Personally, I use pin headers, with the pins pre-soldered to Q2G2's and insulated with hot glue. Just plug it in and use foil tape to secure it. It's simple, reliable, and most importantly cannot be easily screwed up in the field.
 
I wouldn't worry so much about the connection; the bigger issue is mechanically anchoring the charges. You're not attempting any 100+G flights, are you? If the charge wants to move, no matter what connection you use something is going to snap.

(this is what I learned from Disappearing Act's 220-G final flight).

Personally, I use pin headers, with the pins pre-soldered to Q2G2's and insulated with hot glue. Just plug it in and use foil tape to secure it. It's simple, reliable, and most importantly cannot be easily screwed up in the field.

You can solder an e-match? I figured with the low resistance and potential to get to warm that would not be safe? Plus with my bad soldering skills, I take to much time on one wire, which is why I am afraid of the heating issue.

I normally tape my charges to the eye bolt. Right now I am only planning on taking it to roughly 11k feet with Mach 1.3 simulated.
 
You can solder an e-match? I figured with the low resistance and potential to get to warm that would not be safe? Plus with my bad soldering skills, I take to much time on one wire, which is why I am afraid of the heating issue.

Yes, you can safely solder them. I can't see how heating would be an issue unless you cut off the entire wire lead.

IMO, termal blocks, pin headers and all that are just extra failure points. I run the ematch wires through a small hole in the bulkhead and connect them directly to the terminal blocks on the electronics. The small hole and wire can be easily sealed with a bit of "poster tack" (and also easily removed).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BKQDB4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
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Yes, you can safely solder them. I can't see how heating would be an issue unless you cut off the entire wire lead.

IMO, termal blocks, pin headers and all that are just extra failure points. I run the ematch wires through a small hole in the bulkhead and connect them directly to the terminal blocks on the electronics. The small hole and wire can be easily sealed with a bit of "poster tack" (and also easily removed).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BKQDB4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

In my mind, if the wire(s) get to warm while soldering then it can heat the pyrogen and cause the match to go off. But I might just be a little to safe in that regards.
 
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In my mind, if the wire(s) get to warm while soldering then it can heat the pyrogen and cause the match to go off. But I might just be a little to safe in that regards.

I did it to 16 Q2G2's last week in a row. No issue. A bigger issue was melting the plastic on the pin headers, causing them to become misaligned. That was really irritating.

But a Q2G2 really doesn't have much power, so it shouldn't ever be a problem.
 
Just a thought, I am redesigning and rebuilding my Blackhawk rocket, dubbed Type II.

I want to redo my AV-Bay, I do not want to use terminal blocks as they will not fit to well on a 38mm bulk plate.

I was thinking of just the good old twist and tape method. To me this method is the most simple and also reliable. I just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with this, in high velocity flights.

Plus this would make it nice and simple with a hole for the wires in the bulk plate which would be glued to create a seal, and the wires would come straight from Altimeter/Common Positive lead.

If this is a stupid idea please let me know.

I drill a hole in the bulkhead large enough to insert an 8-32 well nut. I build the charges, pass the wires through the hole, connect them directly to the electronics, insert the well nut and tighten the screw. The bulk head is sealed and you have eliminated a connection/failure point. I have not tried this in a rocket smaller than 4" but I see no reason for this not to work.
 
If you are going to try and twist the wires just be aware that the wire can only take so much mechanical movement and will break off. Leave some extra sticking out through the bulkhead or make sure it is easy to replace. If you fill the hole with epoxy around the wires then you will probably be making a new hole after a few launches.

If you are soldering make sure that the solder is fully wetting both parts otherwise you can end up with a cold solder joint. Best case is that this adds a bit of resistance but works - worst case is that the wire breaks free.
 
Yes, you can safely solder them. I can't see how heating would be an issue unless you cut off the entire wire lead.

IMO, termal blocks, pin headers and all that are just extra failure points. I run the ematch wires through a small hole in the bulkhead and connect them directly to the terminal blocks on the electronics. The small hole and wire can be easily sealed with a bit of "poster tack" (and also easily removed).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BKQDB4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I don't see pin headers or terminal blocks as failure points; this past weekend I had a recovery failure where the pin header connection stayed intact, and the wires snapped between the connections. I held that particular connection together with one wrap of aluminum foil tape. On Disappearing Act, which had its deployment circuits go through two (apogee) and three (main) double header pin connections in series, the Raven fired both its charges, despite the 220 G boost it underwent.

To be specific, the electricity for the main charge flowed like this (from positive to negative):
lipo -> battery connection adapter pin -> screw switch -> header pin -> another header pin -> terminal block -> long wire down shock cord -> header pin -> Q2G2 -> header pin -> long wire to terminal block -> header pin -> Raven terminal block -> header pin -> battery adapter pin -> lipo.

Despite the horrifying boost that ripped the foil-tape-wrapped apogee charge off of its Q2G2, all 8 pin connections, 6 terminal block connections, and 16 user-soldered connections in series with the main charge held up, as well as all of the other ones for the main charge and powering the Raven itself that I haven't counted. All Q2G2's fired.

The bigger worry for me, especially since I favor the Raven which has a common high, is field usability. User error is more likely when all field-installed connections are made in the same spot. I have my wires and switches and connections that run outside the av-bay pre-arranged and color-coded in order to prevent misidentification: yellow and blue for apogee channels (sun and sky), brown and green for main channels (near the ground and trees), red for high, and black for ground. If I have space, I write actual labels too. Header pins prevent me from mixing up which lead goes to which charge, since the leads are automatically paired together.

The other reason I go through the effort of prepping charges by soldering them to header pins is that I use Q2G2's instead of ematches. The shorter leads on the standard versions can make it impractical to wire directly to an altimeter in larger rockets. For this purpose, header pins are an easy way for a quick, foolproof field connection, putting the thinking work on the preparation side instead of in the field.
 
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I don't see pin headers or terminal blocks as failure points... <snip>

I have my wires and switches and connections that run outside the av-bay pre-arranged and color-coded in order to prevent misidentification: yellow and blue for apogee channels (sun and sky), brown and green for main channels (near the ground and trees), red for high, and black for ground. If I have space, I write actual labels too. Header pins prevent me from mixing up which lead goes to which charge, since the leads are automatically paired together.

I kinda like your color analogy, Car Vac... and it's novelty.

Empirically however, I think John's correct.. (Hi John, long time no 'sprechen rockets'), however in practical terms, connections are what you make them. Thorough and thoughtful prep yields the empirical probabilities of failure much lower.

Everything aforementioned works, it's all about your personal project comfort levels and your personal attention to detail. Ruling out as many unknowns as possible pre-flight eliminates those questions post-flight should you have less than desirable results.
 
There is no problem in using twist and tie method for high velocity flights. I use that method on all of my high velocity flights. Case in point, my rocket "Carbon Nightmare" which flew at LDRS 30 on an L2375 hit mach 2.1 on the way up and I had no issue with the wiring. I also flew it at MWP 9 on an M2250 C* to mach 2.2 and I didn't have any electronics issues with that flight either. One thing that I like to do is keep all of my wires as short as possible so that I don't get a big mess, and I like to either tape my wires down to the board or zip tie them to keep them out of the way.

Carbon Nightmare M.jpg

Carbon Nightmare takeoff.jpg

Carbon Nightmare pad.jpg
 
Thank you for the replies,

I will be using the twist tie method, since heat is no issue I will also use some heat shrink instead of tape making for a better connection. The bulk plate will be sealed with just hot glue, which is easily removed.
 
I drill a hole in the bulkhead large enough to insert an 8-32 well nut. I build the charges, pass the wires through the hole, connect them directly to the electronics, insert the well nut and tighten the screw. The bulk head is sealed and you have eliminated a connection/failure point. I have not tried this in a rocket smaller than 4" but I see no reason for this not to work.

I believe I am going to have to give this well nut method a try. Thanks!


All the best, James
 
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