BRB900 or Telemetrum?

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Scott Evil

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I'd prefer the Telemetrum set from Apogee due to its dual functionality ( I can get a Tech license for it).

The BRB900 setup also sounds pretty righteous at about the same price. (sans licence but less range).

Which one of these am I less likely to have hassles with software wise? (WIN 7 64 Bit)

-S?
 
If you go with the Big Red Bee, and buy the 900MHz version with their receiver, or the 70cm version with a radio with a TNC built-in, you have no software to work with, or worry about. Greg's support is very good.

If you go with the Telemetrum, you have to install software, but I don't know anyone who's had problems with it, and Bdale and Keith's support is also very good.

Either one is a good route.

Me, personally, I'd recommend a HAM version of either. The reason being that the group I do most of my flying with all have licenses, and carry radios -- we use 2m for communication at the field, which is way better than FRS could ever hope to be.

-Kevin
 
If you go with the Big Red Bee, and buy the 900MHz version with their receiver, or the 70cm version with a radio with a TNC built-in, you have no software to work with, or worry about. Greg's support is very good.

A: So, not a lot of headaches with the telemetrum software but need a laptop at the field and a HAM license.

B: Or, go with the BRB GPS 70cm AND a radio that can be used off field as well.

C: BRB900mHz, just track it?

D: Two meter set-up? Where does all that antenna go? But...can't be much bigger than my latest and greatest right?
 
The two radios currently available with integrated TNCs both are dual-band and have two receivers. I use my VX-8GR to talk on 2M while tracking the radio on 70cm.

-Kevin
 
D: Two meter set-up? Where does all that antenna go? But...can't be much bigger than my latest and greatest right?


2 meters is the wavelength not the length of the antenna. The Antenna can be just a rubber duckie!!

73

Chris de vk2icj
 
I have a BRB 70cm and a BRB 900MHz, and an Altus Metrum Telemini (the ultra-miniature non-GPS tracker/deployment computer).

The Telemini has excellent documentation, has decent software in my experience, and is easy. It is a wonderfully transparent (you know how and why it does what it does) and functional system. However, the only time I have attempted to use it for deployment instead of direction-finding and telemetry, it fired in my hand on the pad when i powered it on, damaging my rocket (by setting off both apogee and main charges at the same time) and giving me light burns and temporary hearing damage. I still love it for easy (and insanely tiny) telemetry and direction-finding, but I will never use it again with charges hooked up. I talked to several 'old salts' at the launch i was attending, who all had negative things to say about the Altus Metrum products, although none of them had ever used them personally.

If you can get Ham, there's no reason to go with the 900MHz over the 70cm BRB. The 70cm Beeline GPS is the fastest-locking (and re-locking, after a fast boost) GPS that is currently available for hobbyists. It does not function above 135,000", however. My real problem with both the 900mhz and the 70cm is the lack of documentation or transparency-the documentation does not at all make clear what the default programming is or how the device should function, although it has functioned perfectly each time I've used it. This may be due to when i ordered mine, it seems the manufacturer was transitioning from one version to the next. That doesn't change the fact that I don't have any documentation of what model i actually have, how it should work, how I should use it, or anything-all I know is that I should wipe the flash before a flight and turn it on before the motor lights, but I don't know about how it saves data or if it's triggered or anything. If this bothers you it might be a problem.

In the end, you simply can't beat the 70cm Beeline GPS for it's time-to-lock times, however, and it has pretty decent transmit range (at least mine does-I have no idea what power it is, since the documentation isn't self-consistent), and seems to have enough memory (it recorded over two hours of data in the back of our van after recovering a rocket as we drove home, despite the documentation saying it only recorded for 20 minutes...). I'd still get the 70cm beeline.

As an aside about handsets: we're using a Yaesu of some model number I don't remember, but it has it's own GPS receiver built in-which means it receives the 70cm beeline's APRS packets, and reports the relative heading and direction to the last received packet. THat's pretty darn handy, so I think it's probably worth getting a ham receiver that can do that.
 
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As an aside about handsets: we're using a Yaesu of some model number I don't remember, but it has it's own GPS receiver built in-which means it receives the 70cm beeline's APRS packets, and reports the relative heading and direction to the last received packet. THat's pretty darn handy, so I think it's probably worth getting a ham receiver that can do that.

Yaesu VX-8GR, if the GPS is built into the unit itself. -8R or -8DR, if you have to have a mic with the GPS receiver built into it.

-Kevin
 
TeleMini fired in my hand on the pad when i powered it on,

Would love to hear more about that -- the only other report we've gotten about such an event was due to a damaged board. Please drop us some email if you'd like us to help figure out what's up.
 
In the end, you simply can't beat the 70cm Beeline GPS for it's time-to-lock times, however, and it has pretty decent transmit range (at least mine does-I have no idea what power it is, since the documentation isn't self-consistent), and seems to have enough memory (it recorded over two hours of data in the back of our van after recovering a rocket as we drove home, despite the documentation saying it only recorded for 20 minutes...). I'd still get the 70cm beeline.
...

Yes, documentation is lagging. The new 70cm u-blox version that is currently shipping is available in 16mw and 100mw versions and both have 2.5 hours of recording time at 1 Hz.

Greg
 
Yes, documentation is lagging. The new 70cm u-blox version that is currently shipping is available in 16mw and 100mw versions and both have 2.5 hours of recording time at 1 Hz.

Greg

Speaking of documentation Greg, parts wise, what are we looking at here?

https://www.bigredbee.com/zc139/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72&products_id=194

Specifically the second unit from the to top in the picture. To me, it looks likes an Rx (maybe Tx programmer too) with a USB adapter.

-S
 
I talked to several 'old salts' at the launch i was attending, who all had negative things to say about the Altus Metrum products, although none of them had ever used them personally.

We rarely get the chance to hear such conversations. There are things we do "differently" that we understand not everyone likes but are unlikely to change, like the need for a ham license, the fact that we don't use physical configuration switches, the fact that our boards are small, etc. But while we know we'll never satisfy everyone, if any of the "negative things" said are things you think we should know about so that we can improve our products, please let us know!

And as Keith has already pointed out, I'm not aware of charges ever firing on the rail on a TeleMini that wasn't damaged. I'd be happy to take a look at your board if you'd like?
 
Speaking of documentation Greg, parts wise, what are we looking at here?

https://www.bigredbee.com/zc139/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72&products_id=194

Specifically the second unit from the to top in the picture. To me, it looks likes an Rx (maybe Tx programmer too) with a USB adapter.

Top (yellow shrink tube): BeeLine GPS
Middle (green shrink tube): BeeLine Transmitter (70cm beacon)
Bottom-right: BeeLine USB interface, used to connect either of the above to a computer for configuration/download/etc

The "MegaDeal" gives you both transmitters -- the beacon, and the GPS.

-Kevin
 
Top (yellow shrink tube): BeeLine GPS
Middle (green shrink tube): BeeLine Transmitter (70cm beacon)
Bottom-right: BeeLine USB interface, used to connect either of the above to a computer for configuration/download/etc

The "MegaDeal" gives you both transmitters -- the beacon, and the GPS.

-Kevin

Gotcha, that make sense. I was wondering why the Rx was nekkid.:kill:
 
I've had dozens of flights with my TeleMetrum, the latest of which was a 15k flight two-stage at BALLS where it gave a solid GPS from lift-off to touchdown. I've had some issues with it resetting during flight, but have found twisting power and pyro leads eliminates this problem. My typical flight profile is to use the TM for tracking and primary deployment with a Raven for staging and backup deployment. It is a pain bringing a laptop, but the built-in map and audio reporting during flight make it worth the hassle. I'm waiting for a BluTooth ground station with smart phone software which would be way cool. (hint, hint)

Previously I have used 900 MHz products (GPSflight and ARTS) but found these to be hightly unreliable. I have a friend with a BRB900 who has experienced similar reliability problems with it, so I'd stay away. The 70cm BRB with the u-block GPS sounds like a winner.
 
I have a Telematrum which has flown a number of times, with complete reliability. I practically rely on the telemetry. I intend to continue using them for at least anything I can fly in the East. I have more than one now. I also have a BRB but not the GPS one. I stick it in the NC of rockets not expected to go very far away. I've yet to need to use it for tracking, but I like knowing it is there. Were I to do it again, I'd go with the GPS version. It is easier than homing in on a beacon. Some places I fly require a bit of path planning depending on where one needs to recover. GPS coords and a map save a lot of time and hassle.

There are things I'd like to be different about both systems but I'll happily use either. Anyway I'm a HAM so I'd stay on the HAM bands. YMMV.

Gerald
 
With a BRB and a handheld ham radio with built-in GPS, you can start running towards the rocket before it lands, whereas with a Telemetrum I imagine you would need to stay by the laptop until touchdown so you can get the final landing coordinate before moving.
 
With a BRB and a handheld ham radio with built-in GPS, you can start running towards the rocket before it lands, whereas with a Telemetrum I imagine you would need to stay by the laptop until touchdown so you can get the final landing coordinate before moving.

Laptops are amazingly portable.

Last I looked, it was possible to walk (or drive) while carrying one.

-Kevin
 
Laptops are amazingly portable.

Last I looked, it was possible to walk (or drive) while carrying one.

-Kevin

netbooks are good for this.... Laptops, are too expensive to try to fiddle with while they can fall and break(dont ask me how much this lesson cost...) (nothing, but 2 spare hard drives i did have are now toast from falling out of the back of the suburban....)

However, i dont see the problem with waiting 30 seconds to start walking? I would much rather see the rockets last known position, before i move and jeperdize my signal.
 
Previously I have used 900 MHz products (GPSflight and ARTS) but found these to be hightly unreliable. I have a friend with a BRB900 who has experienced similar reliability problems with it, so I'd stay away.

What are the reliability problems with BRB900? I have seen this comment a couple times on this forum with no details. My unit works fine and successfully led me to my rocket a number of times.
 
Laptops are amazingly portable.

Last I looked, it was possible to walk (or drive) while carrying one.

-Kevin

I've started to put my laptop in my book bag that on my back and feed the antenna connection and my headphones out the top. The computer is protected and it leaves me free to walk to a better position if needed to continue to track the radio signal.

In my opinion, the comparison of the BRB and the Telemetrum is an apples and oranges kind of thing. The BRB is a GPS transmitter only while the Telemetrum is a dual channel, accelerometer and barometric based altimeter that also not only transmits its position, but also tells me where to point the antenna to continue to receive the best possible signal. In addition, it tells me when the apogee charge fired and when the main charge fired. I don't have to take my eyes off the flight profile to get any of this information.

If I wanted to open the laptop, I can track my rockets location in real time over downloaded Google Earth satellite imagery, I can see its descent velocity to verify I had a separation event at apogee and that the main deployed correctly. All of this in real time!

My decision to buy the Telemetrum was really a no brainer when I got looking at the information available to me at the launch site. Price wise, the costs are very near the same (assuming you own a laptop). I have flown mine to over 30K without issues and it continues to amaze me every time I fly it.

Bob Brown
 
What are the reliability problems with BRB900? I have seen this comment a couple times on this forum with no details. My unit works fine and successfully led me to my rocket a number of times.

Basically, the last known position is the pad. I can say this with firsthand knowledge with GPSflight and ARTS. My friend has had this problem more than once with the BRB900, but seeing I was not directly involved I cannot rule out operator or some other error.

Fred
 
I just ordered a BRB 70cm version. I have a Yeasu VX-8DR and an old 70 cm Arrow Antenna yagi that I previously used for satellite communication. I have had very good luck with a BRB RF beacon, and they were very responsive to e-mail questions. I should know how well it works in a few weeks! I'm really looking forward to it.
 
I just ordered a BRB 70cm version. I have a Yeasu VX-8DR and an old 70 cm Arrow Antenna yagi that I previously used for satellite communication. I have had very good luck with a BRB RF beacon, and they were very responsive to e-mail questions. I should know how well it works in a few weeks! I'm really looking forward to it.

FWIW, I don't tend to use the Yagi with the -8GR. I find the rubber duck that came with the radio works just fine for picking up the GPS transmitter.

-Kevin
 
FWIW, I don't tend to use the Yagi with the -8GR. I find the rubber duck that came with the radio works just fine for picking up the GPS transmitter.

-Kevin

I will second that. Highest I have tracked with the rubber ducky is 20k'.

Dennis
 
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