quick an dirty fiberglassing

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stardust

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I am sure this has been covered before...some friends on this forum asked me to describe how I reinforce my rockets body tube and fins.

Here is how I glassed (glass reinforced plastic GRP) a scratch built "little bigger Bertha."

I used a round handle piece of a scraper clamped in a bench vice to hold the rocket. This way I can spin it around as I work on each fin. I used scrap pieces of glass cloth/resin between the fins on the body tube. Slightly overlap the pieces1/16th: to assure continuity of strength. This is one of the few project I am trying to see how strong and light I can make it. Kind of want to use the new 24 mm.Cesroni 3grain White on it. We'll see....

First I made fillets out of 15 min. epoxy mixed with 3M micro balloons to a thick paste. Globed it in with protected fingers. Swiped it into a cove with a rounded piece of tag board. Let it set up to a rubbery consistency and scratched the excess off with a pocket knife. The next day sanded the whole rocket with 120 grit sand paper. The micro balloons with epoxy sand easy so touch up of the fillets was not a problem. Once the whole project was sanded I washed the surfaces with denatured alcohol. Everything is clean... glass cloth, mixing container, brush mixing sticks, etc. I like the laminating Aeropoxy from Giant Leap Rocketry. It is strong and saturates wood, glass, prepped plastics very well. It also gives a long working time so I am not pressured to work fast. The resin/ glass can be bought bulk from a fiberglass supplier. I do not use enough to get a price break...so Leap has good prices and fresh/clean materials. Oh, store your glass cloth in a tight dry plastic bag. The atmosphere can have contaminates in it. Especially if one fries a lot of food in the storage area. I use natural bristle brushes. Epoxy fumes are tricky...don't smell too dangerous but they are not to good. I do it out side in the summer. In the winter I use a refrigerator box with a light bulb in it outside to cure things, and do the basic layup in the open garage. All the basic precautions. I wash up the brush, floor, cloths etc. with denatured alcohol from the lumber yard. Nitrile rubber exam gloves are the only ones worth using.

To start the laminating process paint a generous coat of resin over the surface to be glass reinforced. Then flop a precut clean piece of satin weave 3oz. glass cloth on to the work surface with resin. Using a resin loaded brush apply additional resin plastic to the glass on the work surface. A dabbing motion is best...brushing will move the glass around. The ideal laminate will not have so much resin on it that it hides the fibers of the glass. Use only enough resin to saturate the glass laminate. Dab away excess with the brush slightly dry from resin. Dab the brush into air bubbles trapped under the glass. This will work them out an allow the resin to move in. This will result in a stronger laminate and less sanding. Do not worry about excess resin along the edges it is easily sanded off later. Or while cured to a hard rubbery consistency it can be carefully trimmed with a knife or scissors. For additional layers of laminate lightly sand the cured existing layer and clean it with the alcohol or acetone. This will expose some of the glass fibers from the existing laminate. Some times a CSM (chopped strand mat) of varying weights might be used between woven layers to give thickness and a better bond between layers. I did not use any csm on this project. At this point sand it, prime it , and paint. Laminating is easy and fun!
 
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I've been waiting for others to ask questions so that I could learn about fiberglassing. Looks like everyone else but me knows how to do it, although I find that hard to belive. OK, I'm fine with being the one to start asking questions.

How are the fins trimed of excess fiberglass?
 
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I used scrap pieces of glass cloth/resin between the fins on the body tube. Slightly overlap the pieces1/16th: to assure continuity of strength.
QUOTE]

I'm sure there will be a lump where the glass over laps. Since the glass was applied for strength, won't sanding the lump down weaken the glass at that overlap point?
 
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He does touch on the issue in the last paragraph.

Understandably, it's a lot to absorb if you haven't had some play time with these materials.

In a nutshell, there is a stage of curing where the resin+fiberglass isn't goopy or still too sticky but not quite hard as a rock yet either. It's in a leathery or rubbery stage. At this point the excess glass can be cut off reasonably with new razor blade(s) or exacto blade(s).
 
He does touch on the issue in the last paragraph.

QUOTE]


OK, yeah I read that part. What I meant is how are the edges of the fin trimed up to the point of being ready for paint.
 
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Nice writeup, Dan!

I don't know how Dan does it, but I typically use fairly coarse sandpaper in a palm sander to take down remaining bumps. You just have to be careful about not getting into the wood, especially with balsa.

-Kevin
 
Thanks for the fiberglassing write-up, Dan.

I've been wanting to start doing this for some time but really didn't know where to begin. Your how-to helps greatly.

They don't offer a remedial fiberglassing class at Clown College. I checked.
 
Thanks for the fiberglassing write-up, Dan.

I've been wanting to start doing this for some time but really didn't know where to begin. Your how-to helps greatly.

They don't offer a remedial fiberglassing class at Clown College. I checked.



It's being offerd at the Clown Institute of Technology, but you have to get class materials out of Clown College dumpsters.

Also, does the weave of the fiberglass need to follow the grain of the wood?
 
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I used scrap pieces of glass cloth/resin between the fins on the body tube. Slightly overlap the pieces1/16th: to assure continuity of strength.
QUOTE]

I'm sure there will be a lump where the glass over laps. Since the glass was applied for strength, won't sanding the lump down weaken the glass at that overlap point?
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The process is continuous...
 
I'm sure there will be a lump where the glass over laps. Since the glass was applied for strength, won't sanding the lump down weaken the glass at that overlap point?

The part I was referring to sanding is the fin edges.

The "lump" where there's overlap from the pieces is minimal and can be handled via the application of a small amount of filler, then a bit of sanding until it's smooth.

You'd be surprised at just how little filler is required.

-Kevin
 
Can the different weights of fiberglass be explained, and why one would be chosen over another?
 
Can the different weights of fiberglass be explained, and why one would be chosen over another?

The weight of a woven cloth is the weight of one square yard of the material. Thus, for 3oz cloth, one square yard weighs 3oz. That also means that, ideally, you'd use 3oz of resin for that same amount of cloth.

A heavier cloth is stronger than a lighter cloth of the same style. Weave matters, as do the fibers used (S glass versus E glass, etc). For a lot of rocketry applications, a plain weave is just fine. For complex curves (such as around a nosecone), a harness satin weave conforms to the compound curves more readily.

-Kevin
 
The weight of a woven cloth is the weight of one square yard of the material. Thus, for 3oz cloth, one square yard weighs 3oz.

-Kevin

That's the kind of answer(s) we, the 'fiberglass challanged', like to get. Thank you for your reply.
 
How do you fiberglass a nose cone and get the same outside diameter as the glassed body tube?
 
Yep, you apply fiberglass to both parts, and once you've finished trimming everything, you assemble them and level them out with Bondo spot filler.

Ergo, Bondo.

G.D.
 
How is a good looking joint between the nose cone and the body tube achived?
 
How is a good looking joint between the nose cone and the body tube achived?

sanding...

If you sand the lip right at the edge of the tube down to the size of the nosecone. It won't be noticeable when painted. It won't go completely down, but you can get it down far enough.
 
It would be nice if such a manual existed. This book would contain such bits of info like:

Choosing the proper type and weight of fiberglass for particular rocket types and/or sizes
Choosing the proper type and/or different brands of fiberglass epoxy/rezins
Techniques for applications
Sanding and Finishing, which would include priming etc.
Safety and Clean-up

Anything else you fiberglass experts can think of? I am sure that there is someone who could even produce a video that would include glassing a rocket, start to finished product.
 
See posts 15 and 16 first so the qustion below makes cents.

Which kind of bondo? The spot filler kind or the two part kind used for auto body work?

I'd use the two part.

Why? Because it's stronger.

Spot putty isn't very strong and can be chipped fairly easily, so in an exposed area, like the end of a tube, I wouldn't expect it to hold up very well.

The two-part polyester resin is much more durable. It's also not as easy to work with, and really should be used outside, with a VOC respirator, as the fumes are nasty.

-Kevin
 
I'd use the two part.

Why? Because it's stronger.

Spot putty isn't very strong and can be chipped fairly easily, so in an exposed area, like the end of a tube, I wouldn't expect it to hold up very well.

The two-part polyester resin is much more durable. It's also not as easy to work with, and really should be used outside, with a VOC respirator, as the fumes are nasty.

-Kevin

FWIW, I had little or no knowldege of Bondo except having heard of it here. I bought some of the spot putty for a repair on the fins of a Redstone. I actually tried to use it to build up a triangular prism on the leading edge of the fins. It was brittle and subject to breaking off. Not having anything else to lose, I tried soaking the applied Bondo putty in thin CA. That seemed to do the trick and the suckers are hard now. It still hasn't flown but its looking a lot better.

BTW, what Troj said about the other Bondo fumes seems appropriate to the CA fumes for what I did also.:eyepop:
 
I'd use the two part.

Why? Because it's stronger.

Spot putty isn't very strong and can be chipped fairly easily, so in an exposed area, like the end of a tube, I wouldn't expect it to hold up very well.

The two-part polyester resin is much more durable. It's also not as easy to work with, and really should be used outside, with a VOC respirator, as the fumes are nasty.

-Kevin


Use the two part bondo, OK.

Is this method used very much? I don't recall having read about in the HPR builds.

It's gotta be hard to shape after it hardends, what tools are used to get desired results?
 
Is this method used very much? I don't recall having read about in the HPR builds.

I don't tend to worry about a minor difference in size between the body tube and the airframe.

It's gotta be hard to shape after it hardends, what tools are used to get desired results?

You'd be surprised. It sands very well.

-Kevin
 
It would be nice if such a manual existed. This book would contain such bits of info like:

Choosing the proper type and weight of fiberglass for particular rocket types and/or sizes
Choosing the proper type and/or different brands of fiberglass epoxy/rezins
Techniques for applications
Sanding and Finishing, which would include priming etc.
Safety and Clean-up

Anything else you fiberglass experts can think of? I am sure that there is someone who could even produce a video that would include glassing a rocket, start to finished product.

The internet search engine "google" is a great resource for glass reinforced plastic (fiber glassing). Just plug in the words or phrase you want to search for info on, and push "enter". You will find more info than you ever wanted to know...
 
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