Quest Igniters lighting early with the Estes Electron Beam controller?

henry8minus1 · Jan 27, 2009

Recently, I helped a scout group launch some rockets. We had purchased bulk packs of motors from Quest with the new Q2G2 igniters. We had multiple pads going, but one had the standard Estes Electron Beam launcher from a starter set. Both times we tried to use this, the motor ignited as soon as we pushed the safety pin in. I was embarrassed because both times the LCO hadn't even started the count down yet. We stopped using this pad and controller for the rest of the launch because I thought there had to be something wrong with the controller, but afterwards I thought that maybe the continuity current from this launcher is high enough to light these igniters?

Has anyone else had a similar experience or insight to this matter?

Bazookadale · Jan 27, 2009

Yes the new Q2G2 are very low current igniters and you must check your system to see if the continuity sets them off!

henry8minus1 said:
Recently, I helped a scout group launch some rockets. We had purchased bulk packs of motors from Quest with the new Q2G2 igniters. We had multiple pads going, but one had the standard Estes Electron Beam launcher from a starter set. Both times we tried to use this, the motor ignited as soon as we pushed the safety pin in. I was embarrassed because both times the LCO hadn't even started the count down yet. We stopped using this pad and controller for the rest of the launch because I thought there had to be something wrong with the controller, but afterwards I thought that maybe the continuity current from this launcher is high enough to light these igniters?

Has anyone else had a similar experience or insight to this matter?

johnnwwa · Jan 27, 2009

henry8minus1 said:
Recently, I helped a scout group launch some rockets. We had purchased bulk packs of motors from Quest with the new Q2G2 igniters. We had multiple pads going, but one had the standard Estes Electron Beam launcher from a starter set. Both times we tried to use this, the motor ignited as soon as we pushed the safety pin in. I was embarrassed because both times the LCO hadn't even started the count down yet. We stopped using this pad and controller for the rest of the launch because I thought there had to be something wrong with the controller, but afterwards I thought that maybe the continuity current from this launcher is high enough to light these igniters?

Has anyone else had a similar experience or insight to this matter?

Henry
At the bottom of the Quest Q2g2 Igniters package on the back it say's.

WARNING! If using another brand of launch controller,always TEST the igniter to be sure they are continuity safe. These igniters may be actuated when the safety key is inserted in other types of controllers.

I called Doug Pratt ( Pratt Hobbies ) about the 6pack launch controler we use for our club launches with this same concern . Doug assured me there would be no problem. 1/17/09 we launched 30+ rockets 95% of those launches used the Q2g2 Igniter with 100% reliability. In your case you will need to replace the bulb in the estes controller.
I'm not sure what you will need size /type but I'm sure there are people here that will have the answer for you.

Welcome to TRF.

BAR
John

bobkrech · Jan 27, 2009

This is a case where reading the instruction sheet before use is important.

"DESIGNED FOR USE WITH THE QUEST 9V LAUNCH CONTROLLER - Please note that since they (the Quest Q2 igniters) are very low current igniters (120ma fire current), some model rocket launch controllers can set them off during continuity tests. Be sure to test your model rocket launch controller, by connecting an igniter to your controller before inserting it into the model rocket engine (motor) to make sure it does not prematurely activate when you insert your safety key and/or when you perform a continuity check."

from https://www.questaerospace.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=7024&eq=&Tp=

Estes igniters have an all-fire rating of 2 amps (page 12 in https://www.esteseducator.com/Pdf_files/1924_launch.pdf) so even though the continuity lamp in the Estes launcher draws ~0.25 amps (page 9 in https://www.esteseducator.com/Pdf_files/Tech Manual.pdf) , the continuity current is a factor of 8 below the all-fire rating of the Estes igniter. Unfortunately for folks using Quest igniters with an Estes launcher, the Estes launcher continuity current is a factor of 2 ABOVE the all-fire rating of the Quest Q2 igniter and your motor will light the moment you activate the safety pin to check continuity as you found out the hard way...

The Quest launcher uses an LED in series with a low current piezo buzzer to detect continuity. This design typically draws 10-20 ma which is a factor of 6-12 more below the rated 0.12 A all-fire current of the Quest Q2 igniter, so you have to be careful using the Quest Q2 igniter with non-Quest launchers.

Bob

henry8minus1 said:
Recently, I helped a scout group launch some rockets. We had purchased bulk packs of motors from Quest with the new Q2G2 igniters. We had multiple pads going, but one had the standard Estes Electron Beam launcher from a starter set. Both times we tried to use this, the motor ignited as soon as we pushed the safety pin in. I was embarrassed because both times the LCO hadn't even started the count down yet. We stopped using this pad and controller for the rest of the launch because I thought there had to be something wrong with the controller, but afterwards I thought that maybe the continuity current from this launcher is high enough to light these igniters?

Has anyone else had a similar experience or insight to this matter?

shreadvector · Jan 27, 2009

You want your continuity current to be safely BELOW the "NO FIRE" current of the igniter.

You want your launch system to be able to deliver more than the "ALL FIRE" current when you finally push the launch button.

https://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=4516

50 ma and 150 ma is what I'm using until told otherwise.

henry8minus1 · Jan 27, 2009

Thanks for the responses. I feel silly now since I skimmed the instruction sheet, but didn't see the warning. I did really like the Quest motors and igniters, and the boys had a good time.

cls · Jan 27, 2009

does this mean the Q2G2s are good for clustering? seems like most launch controllers are underpowered by current. has anyone tried clustering Q2G2s?

shreadvector · Jan 28, 2009

cls said:
does this mean the Q2G2s are good for clustering? seems like most launch controllers are underpowered by current. has anyone tried clustering Q2G2s?

YES, they are IDEAL for clustering. I had some at NARAM 50 and I handed 3 to Lynell Jackson who used them in her TIme Twister. I have since seen her use them locally in clusters and I have personally installed them in other people's cluster models to show them how it's done.

BEST IGNITER EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

shreadvector · Jan 28, 2009

I found photos online:

https://www.naramlive.com/naramlive-2008/naramlive/07thursday/03.html

Built at NARAM 48 from the parts that Quest donated for that wacky building contest.

At NARAm 50 it had the much improved nylon parachutes from https://www.rocketchutes.com

rocketron1948 · Jan 28, 2009

Has anyone tried launching a cluster powered rocket with Q2C2 igniters and a Quest launch controller?

Rocketron
NAR # 31475

shreadvector · Jan 28, 2009

rocketron1948 said:
Has anyone tried launching a cluster powered rocket with Q2C2 igniters and a Quest launch controller?

Rocketron
NAR # 31475

Yes, but with the EBC (External Battery Connector) and a lantern battery. Worked perfect with instant ignition.

There is absolutely no reason to risk a cluster rocket on one 9 volt battery or 4 AA batteries.

cls · Jan 28, 2009

thanks Fred, I'll try a big cluster soon.

Rocketjunkie · Jan 28, 2009

bobkrech said:
"DESIGNED FOR USE WITH THE QUEST 9V LAUNCH CONTROLLER - Please note that since they (the Quest Q2 igniters) are very low current igniters (120ma fire current), some model rocket launch controllers can set them off during continuity tests.

This current is even lower than most e-matches. Hope Quest will sell them in bulk

georgegassaway · Jan 28, 2009

James Duffy used the Quest Ignitors for his Little Joe-I model at the S7 (scale) World Cup Event held at the 2008 WSMC in Spain.

Powered by four C6s, seen below. Bill Stine talked him into using the Quest ignitors instead of whatever James was planning to use originally (possibly Solars).

- George Gassaway

ManofSteele · Jan 30, 2009

Our NARAM-50 R&D report concluded that Quest ignitors signifcantly performed better in clusters than Estes Solar ignitors.
Matt

shreadvector · Jan 30, 2009

ManofSteele said:
Our NARAM-50 R&D report concluded that Quest ignitors signifcantly performed better in clusters than Estes Solar ignitors.
Matt

Which Quest igniters?

1) Tiger Tail
2) Q2
3) Q2G2

Buzzard · Jan 30, 2009

2) Q@

Pod Bay Door #3.

Chas

shreadvector · Jan 30, 2009

Well posts 18 and 19 provided different answers to the question (which was which of the 3 quest igniters was the R&D report written about.) I'm going with Q2 until I hear otherwise. This thread was about the Q2G2, so lets not get too confused.

Buzzard · Jan 30, 2009

Sorry Fred.

It was the Q2 igniter tested to compare with the current Estes igniter. Pod Bay Doors did an R&D report for NARAM-49 with the Estes and added the Q2 to the NARAM-50 report to compare and contrast. The Q2 were readily available prior to NARAM. The Q2G2 was not.

I am on that team, you know

.

Chas

bobkrech · Jan 30, 2009

Mr Peabody said:
Bob, all your references to the Q2 igniter should read Q2G2 igniter (the ones with the 2" blue leads). I'm not aware of any compatibility issues with the old Quest Q2 igniter.

You are of course correct, however it's not clear if the old Q2 igniters (comparable to the current Estes igniters) still in production. If you go the the Questaerospace website, the only igniter that comes up is the Q2G2, even if you click on the Q2 igniter image.

Rocketjunkie said:
This current is even lower than most e-matches. Hope Quest will sell them in bulk

Yes. They are available in a pack of 6 for $5 here.

Bob

billspad · Jan 30, 2009

bobkrech said:
it's not clear if the old Q2 igniters (comparable to the current Estes igniters) still in production.

The Q2 without pyrogen is sill available. It's the new MicroMaxx igniter.

dwmzmm · Jan 30, 2009

ManofSteele said:
Our NARAM-50 R&D report concluded that Quest ignitors signifcantly performed better in clusters than Estes Solar ignitors.
Matt

I've been using the Quest Q2 igniters exclusively since Quickburst had the ATF issues (was a heavy user of the Hot Shot igniters). I've had no failures
using the Q2's to date. Prior to using the Hot Shot, I used the Estes Solar
igniters and had several (spectacular and costly) failures.....

johnnwwa · Jan 31, 2009

rocketron1948 said:
Has anyone tried launching a cluster powered rocket with Q2C2 igniters and a Quest launch controller?

Rocketron
NAR # 31475

Yes I launched this cloned Custom Rockets Landviper. 3-18mm cluster using the Q2G2 igniters. Worked great! I have not used the Quest 9volt launch control in years. What we use now is the Pratt Hobbies sixpack w/Black and Decker "Start-IT" 12 volt battery jumper.

BAR
John

Quest Igniters lighting early with the Estes Electron Beam controller?

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