H210 Redline reload wouldn't ignite

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qquake2k

Captain Low-N-Slow
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I tried to use a 29mm H210 Redline reload yesterday, but it wouldn't ignite. I tried it twice, both times with FirstFire ignitors. The reload is a few years old, but was still sealed in the package. I assembled the motor Thursday, and put it in a Ziploc bag. I've never had a problem lighting a Redline before. Could the inside of the grain be oxidized? Should I have tried scraping it?

5_ignitor01.JPG

5_ignitor02.JPG

H210R_01.jpg

grain.jpg
 
Redline does oxidize, but those grains look pretty good. It is tougher to light. I can't tell if you have pictures of a chuff, or if the igniter is falling out and landing on the blast deflector. Guessing a chuff.

I have better luck with my own igniters than I do with first fires lighting hard to light propellants. I'd try something like one of the Quick Burst straw igniters.
 
I have found Redline to be the most difficult to ignite when the reload kits are "old". I usually shave off (or scrape) the oxidized layer inside the cores and add a pyrodex pellet at the top. I have also buttered the top third or so of the top grain with pyrogen (I use Rocketflite's MagneLite or QuickBurst's QuickDip). All of these prep steps help, but I have shifted my new motor purchasing preferences away from Redline towards other varietals. I don't like the "walk of shame" to and from the pad to replace igniters when I have a motor fail to ignite.
 
I tried to use a 29mm H210 Redline reload yesterday, but it wouldn't ignite. I tried it twice, both times with FirstFire ignitors. The reload is a few years old, but was still sealed in the package. I assembled the motor Thursday, and put it in a Ziploc bag. I've never had a problem lighting a Redline before. Could the inside of the grain be oxidized? Should I have tried scraping it?

I have a box of Redline grains that look just like your 4th picture.
 
It looks like the one picture shows the igniter falling out of the motor. That will not work.

How were you keeping it in the motor? I usually tape them to the bottom of the motor.

The grains do not look bad. That said, I thought I heard Redline has a tendency to effect the delay grains? Did the delay grain ignite? If not, I might clean up the grains and replace the delay grain with a new one.


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Like Mark says it looks like you spit the starter out before it did its job. How large of a hole did you cut in the red plastic nozzle cap. A larger hole reduces back pressure and allows the starter to remain in the motor longer.


Steve Shannon
 
It looks like the one picture shows the igniter falling out of the motor. That will not work.

How were you keeping it in the motor? I usually tape them to the bottom of the motor.

The grains do not look bad. That said, I thought I heard Redline has a tendency to effect the delay grains? Did the delay grain ignite? If not, I might clean up the grains and replace the delay grain with a new one.


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Newer redline motors have the delay grain separately packaged from the grains iirc and the grains may be individually sealed in bags as well, it been a while since I have flown a redline.
 
I missed this one too. I had a decade old white lightning yesterday that I had scraped and it still didn't go. As mentioned above already, nothing a little pyrogen helper wouldn't cure. It did go up smoothly on the second go. I'd recommend this route.
 
Like Mark says it looks like you spit the starter out before it did its job. How large of a hole did you cut in the red plastic nozzle cap. A larger hole reduces back pressure and allows the starter to remain in the motor longer.

Steve Shannon

It looks like the one picture shows the igniter falling out of the motor. That will not work.

How were you keeping it in the motor? I usually tape them to the bottom of the motor.

The grains do not look bad. That said, I thought I heard Redline has a tendency to effect the delay grains? Did the delay grain ignite? If not, I might clean up the grains and replace the delay grain with a new one.

@Steve: The hole was just big enough for the wire. @Mark: It was held in by the nozzle cap, with two loops of wire inside to hold the ignitor against the delay grain. The delay grain didn't light that I know of, but I'll double check it. And by the way, both times it blew the cap off.

cap.jpg
 
Newer redline motors have the delay grain separately packaged from the grains iirc and the grains may be individually sealed in bags as well, it been a while since I have flown a redline.

Yes, this one had the delay grain and all the propellant grains sealed in their own plastic bags.
 
You know, I do remember this happening several years ago with an I245 Mojave Green. If I recall, I replaced it with one of my homemade ignitors, and it lit right up the second time.

[video=youtube;PUycLV2X3wU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUycLV2X3wU[/video]

[video=youtube;SUssVze2aR8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUssVze2aR8[/video]
 
@Steve: The hole was just big enough for the wire. @Mark: It was held in by the nozzle cap, with two loops of wire inside to hold the ignitor against the delay grain. The delay grain didn't light that I know of, but I'll double check it. And by the way, both times it blew the cap off.

I would cut a larger hole. When the cap blew off it took the igniter with it. All that heat coming from the igniter after it ejected was wasted. It might have ignited the motor otherwise.
 
I would cut a larger hole. When the cap blew off it took the igniter with it. All that heat coming from the igniter after it ejected was wasted. It might have ignited the motor otherwise.

I won't be able to try again until next month, but I'll try that then. Should I also try the tape-the-ignitor-to-a-stick trick?
 
I won't be able to try again until next month, but I'll try that then. Should I also try the tape-the-ignitor-to-a-stick trick?

Make sure and clean the black crap off the grain though, the residue may make lighting it even harder otherwise.
 
Steve... I've used small shish-la-bob skewers or even Broom straws [pulled out of broom head] to hold lighter[taped on] in place, for clusters or old motors where there is a risk of blowing igniter out the arse, from chuffing.
It gets vaporized instantly from exhaust.. only the wire remains .

I have never found a dowel-stick-tube from holding igniters in place, unburnt on ground. Of course if you "over do it" that will always land ya in trouble.

Leave off the nozzle cap & rest stick on blast plate or tape it to nozzle/closure. Just a bit of tape, don't turn it into the "mummy"....
Yeah won't work on propellant with tiny nozzle throat, but white, blue & red are fairly open in this size.

Happy Holidays by the way!
 
Make sure and clean the black crap off the grain though, the residue may make lighting it even harder otherwise.

I'm going to switch the grains around, and put one of the middle ones on top. I'll also sand the inside of it to make sure there's no oxidation.
 
Steve... I've used small shish-la-bob skewers or even Broom straws [pulled out of broom head] to hold lighter[taped on] in place, for clusters or old motors where there is a risk of blowing igniter out the arse, from chuffing.
It gets vaporized instantly from exhaust.. only the wire remains .

I have never found a dowel-stick-tube from holding igniters in place, unburnt on ground. Of course if you "over do it" that will always land ya in trouble.

Leave off the nozzle cap & rest stick on blast plate or tape it to nozzle/closure. Just a bit of tape, don't turn it into the "mummy"....
Yeah won't work on propellant with tiny nozzle throat, but white, blue & red are fairly open in this size.

Happy Holidays by the way!

Thanks Jim! Merry Christmas!
If you’ve done it, I would trust it. I use the red caps, but I cut a big hole. A broom straw is smart!
 
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