Saturn V Apollo 11 Build (Estes #2157) COMPLETE!

jsargevt said:

A suggestion if you want to avoid the hassles with the fins and fairings - Sirius rocketry has "moldin' Oldies" resin cast fins.

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Yep, well worth the upgrade and salvages the 2157 as a decent kit. (not great)

Verna
www.vernarockets.com

It's certainly late in the game for this kind of advice on THIS thread, but in the original 1969 Centuri Saturn V, which the 2157 kit is mostly based upon, the painting instructions said to paint the base coat BLACK and apply overcoats of white.

The reason given was that the black paint did not lift as easily when masking tape had to be peeled off it, and the reverse tape patterns to mask the black areas were easier to apply than to go around them.

It did require an additional coat or so of white to make sure the black undercoat didn't show through.

I built mine in 1994 (after it sat in the carton about 25 years) and it still looks good. No bleed-through or fading.

Yes, I read that on Chris's blog.....he had noticed that as well and commented on it. He decided to paint the whole rocket white and mask for black, as it's always easier to cover lighter with darker. I decided to do the same. I used white primer, and flat white enamel specifically bought for the Saturn V.

Fo the black, I'm using the small Testors spray cans of flat black enamel. I have a bunch of these but don't use them very often as they're so expensive....but the quality of the paint has been very good, in my experience. On the Saturn V, the two black areas I've sprayed so far have really turned out very well. I'll use the Testors on the rest of them.

Fred Garvin said:

This one came out really good to....both took me about 1.5 hours to mask, paint, remove mask and clean up....so, enough for tonight. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time....

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The time you are putting in is really showing through in the results, very nice.

Cl(VII) said:

The time you are putting in is really showing through in the results, very nice.

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Thanks.....The Saturn V build really changes the perspective for all other builds.....

Completed the upper portion of the rocket: 3rd Stage, LEM Module, Service Module, Command Module and LES. Finished the paint work and the few decals this part of the rocket has. It will get a couple coats of satin clear once the whole rocket is done, to seal everything up.









I also got another roll bar done on the lower end (not pictured, looks the same as previous) so 3 down and one to go there. That leaves the roll patterns on the upper 1st stage, decals and final satin clear....the light at the end of the tunnel is glowing bright!

Beautiful job Fred!! Looks awesome!!!

Fred Garvin said:

Completed the upper portion of the rocket: 3rd Stage, LEM Module, Service Module, Command Module and LES. Finished the paint work and the few decals this part of the rocket has. It will get a couple coats of satin clear once the whole rocket is done, to seal everything up.

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I also got another roll bar done on the lower end (not pictured, looks the same as previous) so 3 down and one to go there. That leaves the roll patterns on the upper 1st stage, decals and final satin clear....the light at the end of the tunnel is glowing bright!

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NJRick said:

Beautiful job Fred!! Looks awesome!!!

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Thanks! :smile:

Fred Garvin said:

...the light at the end of the tunnel is glowing bright!

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Looks great and a very nice build Fred, your really moving along on this project.

I remember seeing the time spent of over 60 hours that Chris Michielssen posted on his build thread when I was building mine.

Thanks for this Mushtang! I hope to build the Saturn V one of these days, I'm just not ready yet. However, I have done this on much simpler rockets and noticed the little circle "dent" on the outside and wondered "Now what caused that? I didn't notice that indentation before I put it together and painted it." DUH!!! I overdo everything, from tightening lids on bottles to applying glue. I do have to say that mine were virtually unnoticeable before paint and clear, but after that they kinda stand out to a sharp eye.

Stratos 283

Looking good!

stratos283 said:

Thanks for this Mushtang! I hope to build the Saturn V one of these days, I'm just not ready yet. However, I have done this on much simpler rockets and noticed the little circle "dent" on the outside and wondered "Now what caused that? I didn't notice that indentation before I put it together and painted it." DUH!!! I overdo everything, from tightening lids on bottles to applying glue. I do have to say that mine were virtually unnoticeable before paint and clear, but after that they kinda stand out to a sharp eye.

Stratos 283

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What?

NJRick said:

Fred....she looks great! I can only imagine how hard it is to mask the corrugated areas on the sat V......really turned out great so far!

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I agree, the paint masks are looking great!

On the Centuri kit they planned for some of the masks in the corrugated wraps.
There are raised areas where a horizontal mask goes so you aren't going in and out of corrugations with tape.
I don't think those are even mentioned in the Estes instructions.

And to Fred,
Check the kit box picture. Look for the raised teardrop shaped bumps on the second transition.
Wherever built the model for the box pictures painted right over them!

hcmbanjo said:

...On the Centuri kit they planned for some of the masks in the corrugated wraps.
There are raised areas where a horizontal mask goes so you aren't going in and out of corrugations with tape.
I don't think those are even mentioned in the Estes instructions....

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Thanks guys....

I had read about the raised areas in your blog, so I knew to look for them.....and yes, I have been using them. They make a huge difference as I've only had to cross corrugations once. The Estes instruction show paint patterns and decal placement, but unless I missed it, don't say anything about using the raised areas. If you're clever, study the roll patterns and the model, you should figure them out because they do match up.

Finished the lower part of the 1st stage, painting and decals:





The Interstage Wrapper is next and the remaining decals....I haven't counted how many hours I've put into this rocket or kept track of it.....nowhere near the 61+ hours Chris did....but at least 40 so far......

If you're not too particular, not too precise (and don't mind details that are four scale inches larger) there is a resin, vacuform and photoetch detail set available for the Saturn V available. If you want to use Evergreen styrene to model the stringers and corrugations the Saturn V Clinic gives you tips on which Evergreen product will work. Saturn V purists will also want foil-batted F-1s (all flown Saturn Vs had the F-1s covered in foil-batt insulation to protect the engines during ignition and flight); these are available at RealSpace Models.

According to John Pursley's Saturn V scale data article in the July 1989 American Spacemodeling, with enough noseweight, the Saturn V kit will fly with scale fins. CG location is approximately 13.5 inches forward of the first stage 'firewall'.

I have been watching this thread with interest since you started this build as I have always loved the Sat V. Since I have just been able to acquire an Estes kit of my own I have been pouring over it again and have added it to my favorites list. Also added Chris' blog site. Some great info on this marvelous kit that needs to be seen and used by anyone who is contemplating building this bird. Great job! I just hope I can do as well. Question - if planning for 24mm reloadables - how much extra weight is needed to adjust for the added motor weight - anybody?

You'll notice an ugly horizontal seam on the interstage vacuform wrap. That's a marking guide for the black transversal roll pattern that exists only on SA-500F and S-IC-D at the U.S. Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville. It was originally applied to the first three flight vehicles but when it was found that temperatures inside the intertank got too be too hot during ground checkout the extended roll pattern was painted over with white over the intertank section, and that reduced the internal temperatures to more manageable levels. It's noticeable on prelaunch photos of SA-501 and SA-502 (Apollos 4 and 6).

Fred...your Saturn V looks nicer with each step you take with it. Just gorgeous work!
I am the biggest Saturn 1b nut there is..I admit it...but there is something about the Saturn V. Its just awe inspiring.....and the design..it just seems so classic...I can't put it into words...but that beast was such a leap in technology, power and everything but it came together and flew pretty much perfectly...every time. It's just amazing that they could assemble that thing in that time frame and just nail the design. what was its operational launch on time record? perfect?

Fred...you have done the Saturn V well!!! beautiful work!

Fred Garvin said:

Finished the lower part of the 1st stage, painting and decals:

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The Interstage Wrapper is next and the remaining decals....I haven't counted how many hours I've put into this rocket or kept track of it.....nowhere near the 61+ hours Chris did....but at least 40 so far......

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Man she's looking awesome! Are you masking and spraying or brush painting it? those are some clean lines! Very nice..

AlphaSigOU said:

You'll notice an ugly horizontal seam on the interstage vacuform wrap. That's a marking guide for the black transversal roll pattern that exists only on SA-500F and S-IC-D at the U.S. Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville. It was originally applied to the first three flight vehicles but when it was found that temperatures inside the intertank got too be too hot during ground checkout the extended roll pattern was painted over with white over the intertank section, and that reduced the internal temperatures to more manageable levels. It's noticeable on prelaunch photos of SA-501 and SA-502 (Apollos 4 and 6).

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There are several seams on the wrap.....the uppermost is the one I'll use to mask off and paint the upper single band that goes all the way around. The remaining vertical bars line up with the lower ones and I can tape between the corrugations. The two middle lines get painted either white or silver...I can't tell from pictures and the instructions don't show it.

ereinert said:

Man she's looking awesome! Are you masking and spraying or brush painting it? those are some clean lines! Very nice..

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I'm masking and spraying. I'm using the small Testors Flat Black Enamel spray cans. I have a bunch of these in various colors but only use them sparingly because they're so expensive and I normally use Krylon....BUT....the quality of the paint and the results I'm getting on this particular model is fantastic. I'll carefully mask one section, make sure all edges are down, then spray quickly and remove the masking. Doing it a section at a time, letting it dry, then doing the next section....breaks the job up into manageable chunks. Still alot of work, no doubt about that.

Thanks!

NJRick said:

Fred...your Saturn V looks nicer with each step you take with it. Just gorgeous work!
I am the biggest Saturn 1b nut there is..I admit it...but there is something about the Saturn V. Its just awe inspiring.....and the design..it just seems so classic...I can't put it into words...but that beast was such a leap in technology, power and everything but it came together and flew pretty much perfectly...every time. It's just amazing that they could assemble that thing in that time frame and just nail the design. what was its operational launch on time record? perfect?

Fred...you have done the Saturn V well!!! beautiful work!

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Aw man, you make me feel like a neanderthal...I went "all up" with the masking and painting my Centuri Saturn V...white first, then mask for black, covering large areas w/ paper and many hours mumbling to myself (I never noticed those raised areas until it was mentioned here)

Beautiful job!!! I have really enjoyed following this build thread!

rocketguy101 said:

...I went "all up" with the masking and painting my Centuri Saturn V...

Beautiful job!!! I have really enjoyed following this build thread!

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I had that option of course, but not the patience for it. It takes me too long to carefully mask off an area....doing the whole rocket would have taken days and the chances of an edge lifting would have been high. I'm to a point where I mask off the Interstage complete and spray it though....

:smile:

Mushtang said:

What?

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Sorry, I didn't link your quote. I was saying thanks for the tip on putting too much glue on the centering ring/bt connection.

Stratos 283

Just got this Kit for my Birthday (I'm 55 years young) so glad to see this thread. Am wondering why the motor is pushed SO far up into the body tube, I might make the F1 engines permanent except for the middle one, it would be removable for an engine insertion. Anyone want to comment on this? Are the F1 engines too heavy?

granafratz said:

Just got this Kit for my Birthday (I'm 55 years young) so glad to see this thread. Am wondering why the motor is pushed SO far up into the body tube, I might make the F1 engines permanent except for the middle one, it would be removable for an engine insertion. Anyone want to comment on this? Are the F1 engines too heavy?

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Be sure to also check out Chris' Blog:

Model Rocket Building

Start in April 2011 and the build goes through May, June....70 Blog entries!

The motors are simply a display stand and weigh little: (early pic, unpainted)



I'm sure you could, with some difficulty, modify the stand for permanent installation, extended motor tube (enough to not melt the surrounding bells).....but I gotta tell ya....I know I said I'd fly it at least once, and I still very well may....getting up the nerve to actually fly it....risk all that work, time, effort....'cause man if anything went wrong and the rocket was damaged badly or destroyed....I'd be really upset with this one....really upset. Other rockets, not so much...worst case, build another. This one however......

Fred Garvin said:

.....but I gotta tell ya....I know I said I'd fly it at least once, and I still very well may....getting up the nerve to actually fly it....risk all that work, time, effort....'cause man if anything went wrong and the rocket was damaged badly or destroyed....I'd be really upset with this one....really upset. Other rockets, not so much...worst case, build another. This one however......

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Courage my brother ! This is a FLYING model !!

granafratz said:

Just got this Kit for my Birthday (I'm 55 years young) so glad to see this thread. Am wondering why the motor is pushed SO far up into the body tube, I might make the F1 engines permanent except for the middle one, it would be removable for an engine insertion. Anyone want to comment on this? Are the F1 engines too heavy?

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The CG would be shifted back if you move the motor mount all the way to the rear, so you'd obviously counter with adding nose weight. When I built mine I was disappointed that the F-1 Engines didn't stay on in flight too and if I'd known more about rocketry back then I would have tried to do what you're suggesting.

I say go for it, and report back how it worked out please!

I know Sam.....I know......maybe I'll get lucky and score a Gemini Titan.....then I'll launch the Redstone/Liberty Bell, Gemini Titan, Saturn V Apollo 11.....we'll have a Space Race tribute!