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Should I leave this thread open

  • Yes, I want to hear of your progress(or failures)

  • No, I think Your a nuisance to the rocketing comunity


Results are only viewable after voting.

AdvancedAeron

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HELLO EVERYONE
I AM WITH ADVANCED AERONAUTICS
I PLEADE YOU TO FINISH READING THIS THREAD AND REPLY, NO MATTER HOW CRAZY OR A BAD IDEA YOU THINK IT IS

WE ARE PLANNING ON MAKING HOME MADE ROCKETS WITH PVC ENGINES
OUR ROCKET PROPELLANT WILL BE MADE OF
KNO3(POTTASIUM NITRATE)
SORBITOL(NATURAL SUGAR)

THEN WE WILL ATTACH 4 OF THESE 7 FT ROCKETS TO A PORT--O-POTTY WHICH WE WILL REINFORCE WITH ALUMINUM

AND HOPEFULLY IT WILL FLY

PLEASE TELL ME ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS.

DAVIS OUT
ADVANCEDAERO.WEBS.COM
 
HELLO EVERYONE
I AM WITH ADVANCED AERONAUTICS
I PLEADE YOU TO FINISH READING THIS THREAD AND REPLY, NO MATTER HOW CRAZY OR A BAD IDEA YOU THINK IT IS

WE ARE PLANNING ON MAKING HOME MADE ROCKETS WITH PVC ENGINES
OUR ROCKET PROPELLANT WILL BE MADE OF
KNO3(POTTASIUM NITRATE)
SORBITOL(NATURAL SUGAR)

THEN WE WILL ATTACH 4 OF THESE 7 FT ROCKETS TO A PORT--O-POTTY WHICH WE WILL REINFORCE WITH ALUMINUM

AND HOPEFULLY IT WILL FLY

PLEASE TELL ME ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS.

DAVIS OUT
ADVANCEDAERO.WEBS.COM

Gimme a break!
 
We are not allowed to discuss homemade propellants, research engines, or any similar topics on this board. Specifically, reference the sixth paragraph in the rules and guidelines:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=9531

There are other forums and boards where these topics can be discussed. Specifically, you might check out Rocketry Planet:

https://www.rocketryplanet.com/forums/

They have an experimental and amateur section there for such information.
 
MIGHT TRY NOT YELLING NEXT TIME.

It's ok to type in small letters.

Second, I'm not a fan of the idea of launching porta potties at a sanctioned launch. One moron did it already a few years ago, and the thing was very unstable and dangerous. But I'm not gonna be calling the shots at your launch, so you'll have to work it out with them.

Next, when you say 7' rockets, are you saying the motors will be 7' high, or are the motors going into a 7' tall rocket which is then strapped to the porta pottie?

If the former, what diameter are these motors? Do you have any experience flying motors of this size, or is this your first time? If you've done it before, what does the motor come out to, meaning is it an M, and N, an O?

If the latter, how big will the motors be to propel it? What kind of launch system will you be using, what will the thrust to weight be? How about the CG and CP? What kind of recovery will you be using and how will it be deployed?

Frankly, if you've given no thought to safety, recovery and flight dynamics and you're merely looking to strap motors to a porta pottie and launch it because you think it would be cool, then you're probably not the kind of person who should be launching high power rockets, at least not with either NAR or TRA.

That said, as ridiculous as the project sounds, I'd be interested to hear more.
 
MIGHT TRY NOT YELLING NEXT TIME.

It's ok to type in small letters.

Second, I'm not a fan of the idea of launching porta potties at a sanctioned launch. One moron did it already a few years ago, and the thing was very unstable and dangerous. But I'm not gonna be calling the shots at your launch, so you'll have to work it out with them.

Next, when you say 7' rockets, are you saying the motors will be 7' high, or are the motors going into a 7' tall rocket which is then strapped to the porta pottie?

If the former, what diameter are these motors? Do you have any experience flying motors of this size, or is this your first time? If you've done it before, what does the motor come out to, meaning is it an M, and N, an O?

If the latter, how big will the motors be to propel it? What kind of launch system will you be using, what will the thrust to weight be? How about the CG and CP? What kind of recovery will you be using and how will it be deployed?

Frankly, if you've given no thought to safety, recovery and flight dynamics and you're merely looking to strap motors to a porta pottie and launch it because you think it would be cool, then you're probably not the kind of person who should be launching high power rockets, at least not with either NAR or TRA.

That said, as ridiculous as the project sounds, I'd be interested to hear more.

Hey sorry about the caps, my keyboard on my laptop is broken and the caps key is stuck.

And i dont plan on flying it at a sanctioned launch, it will be at a private launch site and will be under the supervision of FAA ATF and Local Fire officials.

Also the rockets will be 7' matching the height of the port-o-potty
The engines will be about 3'.

I am not a "noob" Everyone on the launch and production team is proffesionals.
We are just new to stuff like attaching rockets to port-o-pottys

Now the engine will probably be N but we are not possitive as we are jsut now starting testing (as of today)

Our launch system is a ARL Tech system with a remade launch switch (requiring 3 people to ok it before it flies)

For recovery we will have a self deploy full size parachuet put into the assemply, along with a GPS tracker incase we loose sight of it.

Thank You for Replying even if you do think I am an idiot.

Davis Out
 
Thank You for Replying even if you do think I am an idiot.

Davis Out

It's not that I think you're an idiot, just that your original post didn't leave me with the impression this project was well thought out. It reads more like a group of people who discovered how to make homemade motors on the net and thought it might be fun to spend an afternoon trying to launch a porta potty. Believe me when I say I'm the last person to criticize someone over their way of doing a project.

Either way, good luck.
 
HELLO EVERYONE
I AM WITH ADVANCED AERONAUTICS
I PLEADE YOU TO FINISH READING THIS THREAD AND REPLY, NO MATTER HOW CRAZY OR A BAD IDEA YOU THINK IT IS

WE ARE PLANNING ON MAKING HOME MADE ROCKETS WITH PVC ENGINES
OUR ROCKET PROPELLANT WILL BE MADE OF
KNO3(POTTASIUM NITRATE)
SORBITOL(NATURAL SUGAR)

THEN WE WILL ATTACH 4 OF THESE 7 FT ROCKETS TO A PORT--O-POTTY WHICH WE WILL REINFORCE WITH ALUMINUM

AND HOPEFULLY IT WILL FLY

PLEASE TELL ME ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS.

DAVIS OUT
ADVANCEDAERO.WEBS.COM

Operation "This can only end badly", is a go.
 
A couple things...

First, as someone has already pointed out, this has already been done. And it was a rather spectacular failure.

That said, based on what you've already posted, that you have some serious research to do.

As far as this forum goes, mentioning sugar (KN/sorbitol) motors on here is fine. Discussing the creation of said motors is outside purview of this forum.

When you say your team members are "all professionals," can you explain? Also, what level of rocketry experience do your team members have? I suspect you're making a huge jump.

-Kevin
 
It's not that I think you're an idiot, just that your original post didn't leave me with the impression this project was well thought out. It reads more like a group of people who discovered how to make homemade motors on the net and thought it might be fun to spend an afternoon trying to launch a porta potty. Believe me when I say I'm the last person to criticize someone over their way of doing a project.

Either way, good luck.

Well Thanks Chris
I misjusged you at first and I will keep you informed.

Davis Out
 
Quite a few of us are aerospace professionals, and we get concerned when a new member posts an announcement of a project that is far beyond the beginner level.

We even get more concerned when someone states: "Everyone on the launch and production team is proffesionals. We are just new to stuff like attaching rockets to port-o-pottys" This doesn't make any sense, especially when the overall tone of the announcement isn't very professional since the FAA, BATFE and local fire departments don't supervise amateur rocket launches.

Lastly, you provided what appears to be a web address that doesn't exist.

Why don't you tell us a bit more about yourself and your group.

Bob
 
A couple things...

First, as someone has already pointed out, this has already been done. And it was a rather spectacular failure.

That said, based on what you've already posted, that you have some serious research to do.

As far as this forum goes, mentioning sugar (KN/sorbitol) motors on here is fine. Discussing the creation of said motors is outside purview of this forum.

When you say your team members are "all professionals," can you explain? Also, what level of rocketry experience do your team members have? I suspect you're making a huge jump.

-Kevin

Yes We have a total of 7 full time members on our team, ranging from hollywood fx and pyrotechnics directors to an EX NASA engineer.

And yes there is a lot more research to be done before this idea is anywere near accomplishment.

And yah, I plan on not letting this be a failure like the previous one.
 
Quite a few of us are aerospace professionals, and we get concerned when a new member posts an announcement of a project that is far beyond the beginner level.

We even get more concerned when someone states: "Everyone on the launch and production team is proffesionals. We are just new to stuff like attaching rockets to port-o-pottys" This doesn't make any sense, especially when the overall tone of the announcement isn't very professional since the FAA, BATFE and local fire departments don't supervise amateur rocket launches.

Lastly, you provided what appears to be a web address that doesn't exist.

Why don't you tell us a bit more about yourself and your group.

Bob

Well let me go over your questions one by one
We're not beginners, just never been on this website before.

Well I already pretty much explained what I meant by that...What i meant was no one has ever made a huge rocket for the hell of it and attached it to a large plastic structure.

And where I live when you attach rocket(s) with more than 4.4 ounces of propellant you have to get a waiver from your local FAA.
When they were informed they said that with this amount of propellant and it not being sanctioned by NAR TRIPOLI or any other rocketry association they would need to supervise it and get us to all sign contracts.

And ATF wants to supervise the handling of the propellant do to combustability.

And the reason the site doesnt work is the hosting server is down for updates.

And what do you want to know about my group I will be glad to answer

Davis Out
 
Yes We have a total of 7 full time members on our team, ranging from hollywood fx and pyrotechnics directors to an EX NASA engineer.

Can you give ages, professions, and rocketry experience?

Something to consider is that there are times where professional engineering experience pays off in this hobby, and times where it doesn't. Being an ex-NASA engineer is a good thing, but it doesn't necessarily translate to knowledge useful to what you're trying to do.

And yes there is a lot more research to be done before this idea is anywere near accomplishment.

And yah, I plan on not letting this be a failure like the previous one.

Any ideas as to why the previous one was a failure?

I've seen a lot of folks make pronouncements about building large projects, some of whom were ready to tackle such a project, many of whom were not. Needless to say, when someone makes an announcement like yours, it tends to get my attention.

I've seen the previous porta-potty in person, and know what its issues were. I've also designed, and led a team that built and flew several very large rockets -- hundreds of pounds. I know what's involved in what you're saying you want to accomplish.

-Kevin
 
I will start off by saying that I am not for or against this. We have often joked about launching a porta pottie. But we have never assembled a full time team to do so. I am curious why you are doing this. You mentioned a production team, is this for TV? What ever happens, good luck and be safe.

Dave
 
Are you a NAR or TRA member? If so, what certification level are you? How about the members of your team? What notable projects have you and your team built and flown in the past? How successful were they? If not, why did they fail? Do you have any photos or simulations of the design you can provide?

Again, not trying to rain on your parade or be a jerk, but your responses don't really do much to inspire much confidence. You mentioned J.K. Rowling's failures as your reason for continuing despite negative feedback, and that's fine, but there's a difference.. No one's life was at risk when J.K. Rowling was told no whereas every single person present for the launch of a porta potty will be at risk.
 
Can you give ages, professions, and rocketry experience?

Something to consider is that there are times where professional engineering experience pays off in this hobby, and times where it doesn't. Being an ex-NASA engineer is a good thing, but it doesn't necessarily translate to knowledge useful to what you're trying to do.



Any ideas as to why the previous one was a failure?

I've seen a lot of folks make pronouncements about building large projects, some of whom were ready to tackle such a project, many of whom were not. Needless to say, when someone makes an announcement like yours, it tends to get my attention.

I've seen the previous porta-potty in person, and know what its issues were. I've also designed, and led a team that built and flew several very large rockets -- hundreds of pounds. I know what's involved in what you're saying you want to accomplish.

-Kevin

No since so many people were talking about it I was going to look it up.
But If you don't mind me asking you what exactly happened and all.

Thanks in advanced

Davis Out
 
I will start off by saying that I am not for or against this. We have often joked about launching a porta pottie. But we have never assembled a full time team to do so. I am curious why you are doing this. You mentioned a production team, is this for TV? What ever happens, good luck and be safe.

Dave

Well, there really is no reason to do this other than to say we did it you know.

And no when /i said production team I meant Building like producing the rocket.

Thanks...and I will try to be as safe as possible

Davis Out
 
No since so many people were talking about it I was going to look it up.
But If you don't mind me asking you what exactly happened and all.t

There were a couple significant design issues, as well as it being severely under-powered.

I'm intentionally leaving out details. I'd like to see A) you do some research, and B) you convince me that your team is the right team to provide detail to.

Big projects carry with them a lot of risk, but also a potential for reward. They're not something to be undertaken lightly.

-Kevin
 
Are you a NAR or TRA member? If so, what certification level are you? How about the members of your team? What notable projects have you and your team built and flown in the past? How successful were they? If not, why did they fail? Do you have any photos or simulations of the design you can provide?

Again, not trying to rain on your parade or be a jerk, but your responses don't really do much to inspire much confidence. You mentioned J.K. Rowling's failures as your reason for continuing despite negative feedback, and that's fine, but there's a difference.. No one's life was at risk when J.K. Rowling was told no whereas every single person present for the launch of a porta potty will be at risk.

No we are not members of any asscoiation.
We have always been personal.

And this teamhas never worked together before but we all have had our own projects.

I have only had one failure out of the 7 homemade ones I tested and that was my first one and My failure was in that I made the nose cone to small to handle the pressure.


and for the comment about JK Rowling yes no ones life was on the line but another inspiration that I'm not sure you can deny is FLYBOYS or OCTOBER SKY (the books are better than the movie)
 
That's quite an intresting project. I has been done, just on a smaller scale, with the estes porta-pot-shot. I guess you could consider this an upscale, and takeing a glance at the it may give you an idea on how to make this one work.
And what went wrong on the last attempt?
SD
 
There were a couple significant design issues, as well as it being severely under-powered.

I'm intentionally leaving out details. I'd like to see A) you do some research, and B) you convince me that your team is the right team to provide detail to.

Big projects carry with them a lot of risk, but also a potential for reward. They're not something to be undertaken lightly.

-Kevin

Ok and I planned to check all your info anyway.

So im going to start with my research now and you gotta risk it to get the biscuit

Like I said to someone on here...IF you would like to know anything about me or my team just leave a message.

Also we are planning on testing our first sugar motor within the next week.
We will post pictures vids and info.

I hope to convince you that we are ready for this challenge

Davis Out
 
Ok, about your design, where do you plan on mounting the motors? Getting them all to the light at the same time could be a problem, especially for home made motors.

Dave
 
Like I said to someone on here...IF you would like to know anything about me or my team just leave a message.

I'd like to see a list of team members (names not important) with age, rocketry experience, and background that applies to what you're trying to do. Send it privately, if you prefer.

Also we are planning on testing our first sugar motor within the next week.
We will post pictures vids and info.

There's a bit of a learning curve, just on making the motors. What resources are you using to help with that? I've never made sugar motors, but I have made APCP, using recipes created by others.

-Kevin
 
Ok, about your design, where do you plan on mounting the motors? Getting them all to the light at the same time could be a problem, especially for home made motors.

Dave

The rockets will be on the sides and yah we were thinking about that we will have to test it alot to figure out which and if a system will be able to light them all at the same time.

Thanks Dave for not just shunning the idea, without giving a thought to it like most people.

Davis out
 
I'd like to see a list of team members (names not important) with age, rocketry experience, and background that applies to what you're trying to do. Send it privately, if you prefer.



There's a bit of a learning curve, just on making the motors. What resources are you using to help with that? I've never made sugar motors, but I have made APCP, using recipes created by others.

-Kevin

37 Pyrotechnics cordinator for 12 years
43 explosives expert (on the show mythbusters once)
29 F/X director
51 EX NASA test enginer worked with nasa since he was 18
34 owns a rocketry store in hampton roads
38 Pyrotech/FX/Safety Advisor for univesal
32 ME F/X for universal

We have used many different sites to make sure the ingredient percentages are correct. And are considering both PVC and metal casings

Davis Out
 
37 Pyrotechnics cordinator for 12 years
43 explosives expert (on the show mythbusters once)
29 F/X director
51 EX NASA test enginer worked with nasa since he was 18
34 owns a rocketry store in hampton roads
38 Pyrotech/FX/Safety Advisor for univesal
32 ME F/X for universal

Thanks. I'll be honest, and it's based purely on limited information, but you came across as a teenager at first, and that's the perception that many have.

We have used many different sites to make sure the ingredient percentages are correct. And are considering both PVC and metal casings

Richard Nakka's site is considered the site for sugar motors. I cannot speak to any others, as I don't know enough about sugar motors to judge them.

My suggestion would be to invest the next couple years (yes, seriously, years) in gaining the propulsion knowledge required for your objective. Then consider what it takes to do the outhouse. Along the way of building the propulsion knowledge/experience, you can use the motors with rockets to learn what you'll need to know for your final goal.

Why so long?

Because knowledge and experience at one size motor does not necessarily translate to making something reliable in a larger size. You've got a long road ahead of you, just in terms of the motors. The airframe issues create their own problems.

-Kevin
 
Davis,

I think this is a FANTASTIC idea and I commend you and your team of crack Hollywood FX proffesionals and EX-NASA managers for conceiving such an exciting project. I can't wait to see this.

Although I personally never constructed a PVC N motor I might offer the following suggustens.

1. Get a laptop with a fixed keybored. That may help with the errant keystrokes that result in spelling errors at best and possible calculation errors at worst which can cause a mishap.

I have only had one failure out of the 7 homemade ones I tested and that was my first one and My failure was in that I made the nose cone to small to handle the pressure.

2. Yes, that's a mistake we ALL have made at one time or another. It also happens more frequency as we get older.

And where I live when you attach rocket(s) with more than 4.4 ounces of propellant you have to get a waiver from your local FAA. When they were informed they said that with this amount of propellant and it not being sanctioned by NAR TRIPOLI or any other rocketry association they would need to supervise it and get us to all sign contracts.

3. That's a smart choice to deal with FAA, ATF and the local fire department instead of getting your team to come up with $62 for one of you to join NAR or TRA. TRA can be such a PITA when it comes to projects like this.

37 Pyrotechnics cordinator for 12 years
43 explosives expert (on the show mythbusters once)
29 F/X director
51 EX NASA test enginer worked with nasa since he was 18
34 owns a rocketry store in hampton roads
38 Pyrotech/FX/Safety Advisor for univesal
32 ME F/X for universal
4. Yes I see real wholes on your team. Of course nun of that experience on your team could help in determining how to strap PVC tubes to a porta-pottie and fly it. Good thing you found this forum. DO NOT under any circumstances recruit any deep sea drilling enginers. I don't care how old they are. I might suggest getting a M.D. to join your team, preferably one who has be one since they were 18.

Our launch system is a ARL Tech system with a remade launch switch (requiring 3 people to ok it before it flies)
5. Another smart choice although I don't think you'll have any problem getting 3 people on your team to ok it.

and for the comment about JK Rowling yes no ones life was on the line but another inspiration that I'm not sure you can deny is FLYBOYS or OCTOBER SKY
6. No one here will argue against that.

So im going to start with my research now and you gotta risk it to get the biscuit
7. Dam straight!

Please continue to post on your progress. This has to be the most interesting thread I have seen on this forum in a LONG time.
 
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