Legality of launching rockets.

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mbecks

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Here is another legal question. A member of this site is angry about a video I posted saying that what I did is illegal (video below). When I asked him to show me the law I was breaking he get more angry and said he is going to report me to the moderators on this site and to the police. I believe I am within the law. If I am not could someone show me the law I'm breaking (please with a source). If you would like to view the altercation yourself here it is: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?131255-Rocket-Sleds-(short-video)

Here is the video in question.
[video=youtube;3hoD96IC-tc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hoD96IC-tc[/video]
 
I can see your protagonist's point. These are close to the rocket cars, but I believe safety and common sense requires a guide wire like the cars use. Take the wings off, put a guide wire on and I'm good. I don't believe any laws were broken, but it's still a fine line. Lets face, just because you use rocket motors doesn't make it rocketry. Personally, I wouldn't touch them.
 
Its important to remember that using something in a manner for which it wasn't designed can be illegal. I'm simply pointing this fact out, not implying this is the case.
 
thanks for the input. So as far as we know the thought process is, 'not illegal but possibly not a good idea'. I can live with that. Doing a google search for Canadian law on low powered rockets, there seems to be very few laws.
 
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It looks like it was done a safe matter. A wide open area with snow on the ground. Its not like a lot of us on here haven't done something like that.
 
It looks like it was done a safe matter. A wide open area with snow on the ground. Its not like a lot of us on here haven't done something like that.
I was also the only one close to the rocket everyone else was 30' away.
 
you guys are making me realize not everyone on these forums is a safety nut Thanks.
 
Many of us are very concened for safety in our hobby, especially since there was fatality recently at a rocketry event when a flier was struck by a rocket to the face/head.
 
Why do I question the knitting death statistic as from hobby knitting, i can see it from industrial knitting mills, but not that common as a single individual knitting.
 
Wow, had to Google that one did you?

Google can be a great place to find all sorts of information, do you not use it when looking for answers? On that note I've done more searching and it seems the knitting death numbers don't have any reliable sources to back it up that I can find, might be an internet made quote. So I do apologize for using a source without properly researching it that is a dumb thing to do. I'm still unsure why you answered so snarkly.

Zero accidents does not necessarily make something safe either.

very true. I still do think, statistically speaking, model rockets are not very dangerous. What would be interesting to find is if there has been a record kept of serious injuries caused by model rocketry.

On a final note, I apologize for not researching my source properly. I don't take anyone's word seriously on the internet unless they provide a source and I failed to do that properly. so many apologies.
 
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Google can be a great place to find all sorts of information, do you not use it when looking for answers? On that note I've done more searching and it seems the knitting death numbers don't have any reliable sources to back it up that I can find, might be an internet made quote. So I do apologize for using a source without properly researching it that is a dumb thing to do. I'm still unsure why you answered so snarkly.



very true. I still do think, statistically speaking, model rockets are not very dangerous. What would be interesting to find is if there has been a record kept of serious injuries caused by model rocketry.

On a final note, I apologize for not researching my source properly. I don't take anyone's word seriously on the internet unless they provide a source and I failed to do that properly. so many apologies.

We do know of several serious injuries in the last year or two, one was recently and occurred with a regular on this forum, and another one at a regional event in WA state. There have been others and I'm sure NAR and TRA keep statistics for insurance purposes.
 
So I'm pretty sure your rocket sleds violate the NAR safety code (which prohibits horizontal launches), but this is not necessarily illegal (may be in some places). You had one "flight" out of three that turned out dangerously (in addition to the lack of guide, you were too close to the igniting motor). There are those on this forum that would say the activity shouldn't be promoted for that reason (or should only be promoted within "research" or amateur forums) for that reason. And that seems like a reasonable if arguable point of view.

But it then again there was a post not long ago involving an RC model of the Komet that uses hobby rocket motors for horizontal JATO flights. And everyone thought it was the coolest thing ever. So reporting you to the cops seems way overboard.

We we also have folks on the forum who think it's cool to shove an oversize engine in their rockets such that they go up to and beyond shred speeds (which is why Art Applewhite stopped making many of his high power kits). Which is also not illegal but potentially dangerous, and didn't receive threats of attempted prosecution like you got.

And a plain reading of federal law makes most dual deploy flights illegal without a LEUP since black powder is a low explosive and its a significant stretch to fit model rockets under the "antique firearms" exemption to the explosives law. Even though rockets are usually less dangerous than black powder firearms. Again, no one running to the cops.

So the lessons seem to be: not all NAR violations (or dangerous rocket activities) are illegal. Not everything that is illegal is unsafe. And Internet forums are not a great place to look for consistency.
 
As I said in your other thread, NFPA 1122, 1125 and 1127 applies to hobby rocket powered missiles, not rocket sleds. There are no federal laws prohibiting rocket sled in the US that I am aware of, and as the OP is in Canada, US laws do not apply anyway. Others might suggest, and the OP found out, that a guide rod and preferably a guide wire should be required when using a rocket sled.

Bob
 
As I said in your other thread, NFPA 1122, 1125 and 1127 applies to hobby rocket powered missiles, not rocket sleds. There are no federal laws prohibiting rocket sled in the US that I am aware of, and as the OP is in Canada, US laws do not apply anyway. Others might suggest, and the OP found out, that a guide rod and preferably a guide wire should be required when using a rocket sled.

Bob

thanks bob, and sorry for any inconvenience my post caused. It was not my intention.
 
Gone are the days of strapping reloaded Estes motors to your sisters Barbie Corvette and letting it launch down the road. Barbie loved it but Ken could not handle the lack of steering!

In our neck of the woods, the municipal bylaw officers will often get their panties in a bunch if you are burning rocket motors in public parks. Its all about insurance and liability. The municipalities know we don't all have lots of the first and so are ill prepared to take on all of the second.

The newer generations have lost out again. Quick, someone make an app for that.
 
When I first got started in model rocketry, I wasn't sure where I was allowed to launch, and I had never heard of rocketry clubs. So I called my county fire marshal and asked. He said that as long as I was flying store-bought, unmodified rockets with commercial engines, I was okay.

This was good to know, and a point of reference should anyone have stopped/threatened me at the local high school athletic fields. Perhaps there is a fire marshal or someone you could call for official guidance.
 
Here in MoCo, model rockets can be legally launched, just not on any public facilities. The approval has been delegated down to the Parks people, who don't allow them. There have been special events at the Community College but not for general fliers.
 
The history of the hobby shows why some rocket enthusiasts are extremely passionate about the current Rocketry Safety Codes.

Before the birth of safe hobby rocketry, there were a significant number of terrible accidents with students and well intentioned adults blowing themselves up trying to make and fly their own motors and rockets. Typically, they were stuffing dangerous powders and flammable solids into metal pipes. People were killed and maimed.

The NAR was created to encourage a safe approach to hobby rocketry with lightweight models made from frangible materials (not unlike flying model aircraft), powered with safe, inexpensive disposable black powder based motors, and operated in ways that made things as safe as possible for the operators of the model rockets and any nearby property owners.

Publicity about this safe approach to rocketry at the dawn of model rocketry did much to greatly reduce deaths and injuries caused by making your own rockets.

You will get various levels of criticism and censoring when you show activities not in line with the established safety code and within the rules of the forum. Forewarned is forearmed. If you want to show things or discuss things not in line with the safety code and the forum rules, you might need to consider doing so in a different venue.

One think that would help you is to show in your signature that you are located in Canada. That will reduce the number of people directing you to US based rules and regulations.

I know you consider some of the more passionate rules quoters to be safety nazis. I think safety is always deserving of respect in our hobby, given the long fatality free (until recently) record of hobby rocketry. And if the safety code had been followed at the launch that caused the fatality, it would have likely never happened.
 
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Looks like fun... (you can tell from the laughter)

Nothing to see here... (sheesh micromeister)

Move along... (carry on mbecks)
 
I don't see any issues. Now those idiot rednecks who had a tv program they definitely stretched the law when it came to what they did with rockets motors and I might add high power motors.
 
this was posted in the Canadian Rocketry section. Was this a questions as it deals with the law in Canada?

This post certainly was, but some of the posts he made earlier and that other people were commenting on were made in other forums with no specific notification concerning activities in Canada, at least when the thread started.
 
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This post certainly was, but some of the posts he made earlier and that other people were commenting on were made in other forums with no specific notification concerning activities in Canada, at least when the thread started.

It says where your from on your name signature on the far right of the screen. I can see where everyone here is from without them telling me. Is that not the case for everyone or is this a setting I have selected?
 
I see it doesn't show up next to my name, I assumed it was there for me as well so that is my mistake for thinking people were seeing that. How do I change that so it shows up.
 
I see it doesn't show up next to my name,...
check you user profile. You can edit it there.

as for legality, I don't see anything wrong unless you don't have permission of the land owner.

You also don't mention what size engines you use. I am assuming model rocket engines. And your age.

Safety is another issue. You were way too close when launching. A guide wire would be ideal as you have no control.
 
check you user profile. You can edit it there.

as for legality, I don't see anything wrong unless you don't have permission of the land owner.

You also don't mention what size engines you use. I am assuming model rocket engines. And your age.

Safety is another issue. You were way too close when launching. A guide wire would be ideal as you have no control.

thanks for the info ill get my profile updated. If you watch the video on YouTube and not on the embedded link on this forum the annotation tell you the motor sizes. I wish annotation worked when a video is embedded.
 
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