Advertisement: WANTED: vintage Model Missiles rocket motors

Hi Gang,

I am looking for some vintage Model Missiles motors or even spent casings. If you have one, or some that you would be willing to part with, please email me offlist: [email protected]

Thanks!!

Phred

Phred:

which ones are you looking for?

1. the hand packed ones by Orv Carlisle himself? <(10/57)
2. Those made by Brown Manufacturing(Zenith Fireworks) or (10/57 -1/59)
3. Those made by the 1st Mabel machine from Estes >(1/59)

just thought you might need to know there are 3 versions....I wish there was somebody that had all 3 so pic could be taken so we could see the differences in marking and labeling.

It just so happens that there is a POOR B&W picture of all 3 in the 7/71 issue of the old Model Rocketry magazine. The 1st 2 can be seen clearly while the Estes made MMI is not very clear. This issue is available at Ninfingres website.

speaking of which: IF anybody has this issue PLEASE consider scanning a clear image of this photo and post it? or send me a copy at [email protected]

I don't actually know if any of the Orv Carlisle handmade ones were sold commercially. the first MMI Aerobee Model Kit 001-A was 1st available in 4/58...

https://cgi.ebay.com/Estes-Model-Mi...k-a-chute_W0QQitemZ250016946242QQcmdZViewItem

hope this helps

terry dean
nar16158

Hi Terry,

Yes, I knew about all three types, but thanks for the info!! As I do no have any at this point, any of the three variations would fit into my collection!

I have seen the motors for sale in the past on ROL, and was frankly too cheap to spring for them at the time. They are not especially expensive, but are far cheaper than the auction you posted about below.

Granted, the rubber nc with plug, and length BT-40 (yes BT-40!) are uncommon, but as it took ESTES years to sell them off (after they bought out MMI), I cannot understand the high price on the auction, unless someone is just fishing.

I have a correct MMI rubber nc and a plug that came in the bottom of a box of rocket junk I purchased at auction. I am planning on cloning an Aerobee Hi from the parts, but have just not gotten around to it...

The article you reference below is one that helped get me interested in motor collecting. I would love to see a hi-res pic as well!!

Phred

Originally posted by astronboy
Hi Terry,

Yes, I knew about all three types, but thanks for the info!! As I do no have any at this point, any of the three variations would fit into my collection!

I have seen the motors for sale in the past on ROL, and was frankly too cheap to spring for them at the time. They are not especially expensive, but are far cheaper than the auction you posted about below.

Granted, the rubber nc with plug, and length BT-40 (yes BT-40!) are uncommon, but as it took ESTES years to sell them off (after they bought out MMI), I cannot understand the high price on the auction, unless someone is just fishing.

I have a correct MMI rubber nc and a plug that came in the bottom of a box of rocket junk I purchased at auction. I am planning on cloning an Aerobee Hi from the parts, but have just not gotten around to it...

The article you reference below is one that helped get me interested in motor collecting. I would love to see a hi-res pic as well!!

Phred

Click to expand...

Phred,

Tim Joyce, aka Kid-Rocket has ALWAYS over priced ANYTHING he has bid on or sold. If something is worth $100, he will ask $275 and tell you how stupid you are not to take it at his, "bargin" price. Nothing he sells, starts off anywhere near its real market value. It starts off at what Tim wants you to pay for it

V'Ger

Well, I never will knock anyone for their pricing. If an item is truly overpriced, it simply will not sell. The seller then has the choice of selling at a lower price, or keeping the item.

Phred

So if somebody had two of them:

1) how much would one of them sell for in 2006?

2) how would they ship it legally?

Originally posted by astronboy
Hi Gang,

I am looking for some vintage Model Missiles motors or even spent casings. If you have one, or some that you would be willing to part with, please email me offlist: [email protected]

Thanks!!

Phred

Click to expand...

2) how would they ship it legally?

Click to expand...

don't ask;don't tell ?

terry dean

I know that this issue has been discussed at length in the past.

I am very open and ship model rocket motors via the US Postal Svc. It helps to use a box that you received motors in: one with 'Toy Propellant Device" labels, and a post mark (to prove they did not come via ups or something). I have shipped motors many times in the past. I have told my local post office what was inside, and showed them the labels, and postmark to prove that motors were mailed to me, and I am sure to advise that I need to send ground only. I have had no problems.

NOT telling your post office that you are shipping model rocket motors would be a grave error, and could potentially cost you legally and financially.

Fred

As for the cost: That really boils down to a debate between the buyer and seller.

But I can tell you this: The $300.00 asking price on that current ebay listing is extremely way out of line. If you have a couple, please email me and we can talk, OK?

Originally posted by shockwaveriderz
Phred:

which ones are you looking for?

1. the hand packed ones by Orv Carlisle himself? <(10/57)
2. Those made by Brown Manufacturing(Zenith Fireworks) or (10/57 -1/59)
3. Those made by the 1st Mabel machine from Estes >(1/59)

just thought you might need to know there are 3 versions....I wish there was somebody that had all 3 so pic could be taken so we could see the differences in marking and labeling.

Click to expand...

I think Dale Windsor may have all three, certainly #2 and #3. I have #3 which I purchased from Dale.

Mine look like standard '60's labelled Estes motors. though with Model Missiles, Inc, where Estes Industries, Inc. is.

Originally posted by shockwaveriderz

>>It just so happens that there is a POOR B&W picture of all 3 in the 7/71 issue of the old Model Rocketry magazine. The 1st 2 can be seen clearly while the Estes made MMI is not very clear. This issue is available at Ninfingres website.

speaking of which: IF anybody has this issue PLEASE consider scanning a clear image of this photo and post it? or send me a copy at [email protected] <<


I do have that issue in my collection. I'll try to scan and send that photo in the next couple of days.

You gotta have that permission slip

Originally posted by astronboy
I am very open and ship model rocket motors via the US Postal Svc. It helps to use a box that you received motors in: one with 'Toy Propellant Device" labels, and a post mark (to prove they did not come via ups or something). I have shipped motors many times in the past. I have told my local post office what was inside, and showed them the labels, and postmark to prove that motors were mailed to me, and I am sure to advise that I need to send ground only. I have had no problems.

NOT telling your post office that you are shipping model rocket motors would be a grave error, and could potentially cost you legally and financially.

Click to expand...

While honesty is always a good policy, and your local P.O. guys are clearly trying to help you out, I don't think this approach complies fully with the steps spelled out on the NAR pages. Your local P.O. guys are probably not aware that they are violating their own 'company' rules.

I just plain will not ship BP or AP motors. Period. I don't want to spend the rest of my days in Leavenworth. (Anybody want to turn in Tim Joyce?)



Edit: the NAR explanation of the applicable USPS rules can be found at
https://nar.org/pdf/shipping_rocket_motors.pdf

Originally posted by powderburner
You gotta have that permission slip



While honesty is always a good policy, and your local P.O. guys are clearly trying to help you out, I don't think this approach complies fully with the steps spelled out on the NAR pages. Your local P.O. guys are probably not aware that they are violating their own 'company' rules.

I just plain will not ship BP or AP motors. Period. I don't want to spend the rest of my days in Leavenworth. (Anybody want to turn in Tim Joyce?)



Edit: the NAR explanation of the applicable USPS rules can be found at
https://nar.org/pdf/shipping_rocket_motors.pdf

Click to expand...

you can ship BP motor as long as its marked. its APCP you have borblems with. BP motors up to the E9 is shippable by the USPS. I have shipped them many times and I have checked.

thanx, Ben

P.S. I don't want this thread to turn ito a argument

Originally posted by ben
you can ship BP motor as long as its marked

Click to expand...

you better read this more closely

https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/welcome.htm

Originally posted by powderburner
you better read this more closely

https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/welcome.htm

Click to expand...

This part being the key content: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c_002.html#vnameref_1

in which it states, "Prior written permission must be obtained from the Manager, Mailing Standards, USPS Headquarters, Washington, DC (see DMM 608.8 for mailing address)."

and

"Domestic Mail: Permitted only via surface transportation sent as Standard Mail or Parcel Post and with prior approval."

and

"Documentation

• A properly completed shipper's declaration for dangerous goods must be prepared in triplicate and affixed to the outside of the mailpiece.

Note: Full responsibility rests with the mailer to comply with DOT and ATF regulations before mailing. A legible photocopy of the Mailing Standards Manager's approval letter must be presented by the mailer to the postal acceptance clerk at the time of mailing."

The "Full responsibility rests with the mailer" part means that even though you tell the folks at your local P.O. what you're shipping, and they say it is OK, you're still responsible (and therefore liable), not the USPS.

Originally posted by Sirius Rocketry
Originally posted by shockwaveriderz

>>It just so happens that there is a POOR B&W picture of all 3 in the 7/71 issue of the old Model Rocketry magazine. The 1st 2 can be seen clearly while the Estes made MMI is not very clear. This issue is available at Ninfingres website.

speaking of which: IF anybody has this issue PLEASE consider scanning a clear image of this photo and post it? or send me a copy at [email protected] <<


I do have that issue in my collection. I'll try to scan and send that photo in the next couple of days.

Click to expand...

Shockie, I sent you a large version of this. I reduced the scan a bit to also post it here. I tried to scan it the best I could from an old, yellowed copy of MRm.

Originally posted by V'ger
Phred,

Tim Joyce, aka Kid-Rocket has ALWAYS over priced ANYTHING he has bid on or sold. If something is worth $100, he will ask $275 and tell you how stupid you are not to take it at his, "bargin" price. Nothing he sells, starts off anywhere near its real market value. It starts off at what Tim wants you to pay for it

V'Ger

Click to expand...

Yes,
And he probably paid $1 for it at a garage sale after talking the guy down from $2.

Originally posted by rokitflite
Yes,
And he probably paid $1 for it at a garage sale after talking the guy down from $2.

Click to expand...

Hehe. Ya, that sounds like Tim.