2 stage Nike Apache

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ben

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well after finding Jim Balls site after looking at all his design I came across his very detailed plans for a Nike Smoke.

https://www.yellowjacketsystems.com/jimball/nike-apache/default.htm

after that I was looking around for some RMS cases and reloads. So I looked on ROL, I got to the building parts section and what do you know :eek: a 5.38" Loc preglassed tube for 30bux!! So today a fiberglassed 4' long tube. I am not sure what glass is on this but it looks like 10oz. I am going to weigh it and see. When I get my L2 I will fly it K to H/I. I have a Perfectflight timer with G-switch aranged and I have a MAWD. I am going to fly the Sustainer while I have my JRL1 and then maybe in a few years I will fly it booster and all. I have some 54mm MMT (14" section) and I will be getting some 2.56" (BT-80) for the fincan and I have some 38mm MMT. I have some 1/8" 3-ply that I will make the sustainer fins out of. I plan to do 2oz all over the BT, and then 2oz tip 2 tip. I am going to get some 6oz for the booster fins. The booster fins will be made out of 1/4" ply. They won't be full thickness since I will be sanding them but then glasing so it will prolly en up at 1/4" again. I will keep you posted on my progress. I might not get to much work done since I have a few other rockets I am working on. Here is the first pic,

thanx, Ben
 
here is the first pic. I am slowly movingt along. Got alot of rockets to finish :p I have the coupler cut and will glue it tonight.

thanx, Ben
 
Ben,

Sounds like a cool project.

Are you comfortable with the coupler length as cut? I believe there may be too much bend with a coupler of that length. I recommend at least a coupler with the body tube diameter for soemthing that size (The total coupler would be twice as long as the diameter of the tube). so for a 5.5" OD, 11" coupler (or longer) would be best.

Joe
 
Originally posted by JoesRocketry
Ben,

Sounds like a cool project.

Are you comfortable with the coupler length as cut? I believe there may be too much bend with a coupler of that length. I recommend at least a coupler with the body tube diameter for soemthing that size (The total coupler would be twice as long as the diameter of the tube). so for a 5.5" OD, 11" coupler (or longer) would be best.

Joe

I agree. this is the coupler that will go into the transition. not the booster. I will get the LOC 5.38" coupler (10" long) for the booster. this will be held in place using 10 of PML's rivets and will house the electronics. so 4" is plenty for this.

thanx, Ben
 
well I haven't gotton much work done on it but today I have the WWHHOOLLEE day! :D I will be working on the sustainer. I have enough stuff to get the fincan done. I will be placing an order through Commonwealth Hobbies fo some 54mm MMT and a 5.38" coupler. I will start glueing the noseceon up today. I need to figure out how I will do the staging. I am thinking about doing a timer in the booster and a timer in the sustainer. The one with the booster will have a g-switch and 1 second after burnout some BP-charges will fire the sustainer away from the booster and the break wire timer in the sustainer will fire the sustainer motor 1.5sec after that. I am up for suggstions on the staging. I will have a MAWD in the sustainer and I am not sure what alt in the booster. I willbe making the sustainer timer myself. I will make it a high amp timer. I will use 2 of them for redundancy and fire the ignitors .5 seconds apart. is that a good idea? of is it bad to have an unburnt ignitor sitting in a motor after one has fired? Will is clog the nozzle?

The picture is some BT-80 (2.56") tubing for the fincan

thanx, Ben
 
Don't worry... once one igniter lights, the pyrogen on the other will ignite as well. One igniter can clog the nozzle too, so it depends on the diamter of the nozzle's throat as to whether it will be clogged or not. If both igniters fit through the nozzle at the same time, I would say you are fine, if they don't, then I might be a littlle concerned, but it depends what the igniters will look like once the pyrogen has been burned from them as well.

To be honest, the PerfectFlite miniTimer3's with the g switch and breakwire options are great and proven timers. I have been using one and an Adept ES231. However, I recently upgraded to a GWIZ MC 2.0 Flight Computer because it is easier to hook up one altimeter/stager/timer than 2, 3, or 4 different units... plus I needed a second altimeter for my L3 and bigger L2 birds.

I'm not even sure you would need the BP charge to sepparate the booster after burnout if you try to drag sepparate. I tried using a charge once and it actually caused my sustainer to start tumblig around the z axis... this created some nice "fireworks" once the timer fired the sustainer and then the altimeter deployed the drogue chute. Best flight failure I ever had. I got the rocket back in pieces. There were several people at the launch, and I think everyone was watching to see where a different part of the rocket hit. The only thing that came back under chute was the booster. The sustainer's chutes had both been fried and the shock cords were burned through.

Anyway, back to the subject. The extra timer just makes things a bit more complex. Remember, the K.I.S.S. method **ALWAYS[\b]** works best. I can't stress this enough. The more complexity a design has, the more opportunities and likliehood for failure. However, this is your project, so you can decide. These are just my suggestions. You may completely ignore them if you like!!!

Good luck! Wish I could see it fly ocne its done --- maybe I can... you are in Virginia after all.
 
well I finally got some work done. And made a few changes. After talkking to my dad, with my upcoming JRL1 he decided to L1 so I can posses motors and I don't have to bother other people and put them on the spot to sign off for me He might go for L2 when I get a 38/720 case too :) . I will be making the nosecone, fiberglassing the tubes, cutting the fins, cutting the CR's and MMT tube. I will also make an E-bay "kit" for him to assemble. Rocsim says 2500' on an H165R. For test flight I will fly it on a G67R to around 1000'. I will get a signoff so I can fly the alt bay and use a altimeter ejection. Joe: I will try drag seperating after you mentioned the KISS and that if you don't ignite them within .2 seconds of each other they could possibly spin the rocket. The reason for using the charges was to get the booster out of the way since an I211 would FRY the booster!! The way rocksim reported I would have around 5 seconds MAX to ignite the sustainer when flying an L850W to an I211W. I would like to try drag seperation but am skeptical about it. Since the interstage coupler is made from 4 rods/tubes it might hold onto the sustainer to long an fry the booster. I am planning on testing the booster sustainer by flying it on a K550 and use a BP charge to fire the sustainer away and use my MAWD set for apogee and 500' single 48" main and have my timer in the booster set for 10seconds in the booster. I should recover it safely but who knows :)

Well here is some pics of the lower booster/MMT 54mm tube being fiberglassed:

<a href="https://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3262942"><img src="https://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/23616332789.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

Here is the joint, I tried so hard to make it even and smooth and I think I did a pretty good job (this is Carl Tulankos method, I used his tutorial)

<a href="https://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3262929"><img src="https://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/23616311565.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

More to come as I glass the fin can and sand the fins.

thanx, Ben
 
well I got the last 2 tubes fiberglassed. I lied about the last pics. :p that is the upper tube and the rest will be cut for my AMRAAM since it lawndarted :(

Here is the BT-80 fincan section. BTW all these are fiberglassed with 1.38oz

<a href="https://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3264103"><img src="https://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/23621035096.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

here is the lower MMT BT section

<a href="https://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3264099"><img src="https://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/23621031055.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

thanx, Ben
 
well I spent about 3 hours sanding and got all 3 tubes sanded with 220. 2 of them I need to do a little more on and one I need to fill a few spots with patch and sand.

Here is the fincan tube. need to do a little more sanding and cut the fins slots.

<a href="https://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3272418"><img src="https://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/23816255768.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

Here is the lower MMT tube I decided to make the alt bay only 3" long and since it was supposed to be 14" long I took and added 6" to the MMT after tube and 5" to the forward tube. I reduced the MMT to 14" since I won't be flying to many motors over 15" long.

<a href="https://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3272429"><img src="https://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/23816273788.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

Here is a full length of 54mm tube I am going to cut down to 18" and use the rest on my AMRAAM 2.

<a href="https://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3272369"><img src="https://f10.putfile.com/thumb/8/23816171467.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

more to come!

thanx, Ben
 
well I got a little work done. All tubes are glassed. The 2.56" fincan tube is slotted, 4 fins cut and sanded, CR's made, and coupler glued in E-bay (done by my father). Got one fillet drying on the MMT as we speak too :)

Here is the E-bay

<a href="https://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3294568"><img src="https://img1.putfile.com/thumb/8/24215454395.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

Here are the parts that make up the lower fincan/MMT section minus the 2.6" fincan piece.

<a href="https://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3294554"><img src="https://img1.putfile.com/thumb/8/24215432775.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

More work to come!

thanx, Ben
 
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